The Fatah-Hamas Deal

Michael

One of the steps need for the Palestinian to have a future state, in sept. This may allow for the moderate voices in hamas to come to light.

Joan

DO YOU WORK FOR A LOBBYING FIRM THAT DEMONIZES ISRAEL AND PUT THE PALESTINIANS IN A GOO LIGHT? WITH ALL THE HORRORS OF THE WORLD YOU SEEM QUITE OBSESSED WITH THIS !
- Anonymous
  
  Joan, I agree with some of your sentiments but, all caps is online yelling. I do not agree with Michael’ ideas but he does make some valid points about the right wing government of Israel and the people who support them. The sad shame here is that I doubt this will last. Fatah and Hamas will eventually fall out. With all that’s going on in the Arab world right now it seems to me that everything is in a state of the unknown. While support the right of Israel to exist, I’m having strong doubts that they will be a Jewish state in the near future.
  
  The more they become an apartheid type regime the more they will self destruct. Of course this could all change with the creation of sovereign Palestinian state and very strong desire of the majority of people on both sides to want peace, real peace.
  - Joan
    
    Are you saying that Israel is an apartheid regime?If so you must be kidding right?
    - Anonymous
      
      No, but they are moving towards that. I have family there. I know Israeli’s who see this happening. The extreme right wing parties in Israel are very much into this idea.
- Ellen Dibble
  
  Considering that a major recruiting tool for extremist Islamic jihad to the extent such ideology considers the West, and the United States in particular, to be at war with Islam, Exhibit One for such ideology has been the way America supports Israel.
  The idea is if you support Israel, this is at the expense of Arab nations, a zero sum situation, I believe it’s called.
  Just as al-Qaida was undermined by the Arab Spring proving that violence was not the only way to reclaim Arab dignity from its oppressors, a way to help de-fuse conflicts globally would be if the Palestinian situation were rectified. Abbas is, I believe, 76, which surely adds to his determination to get this squared away, so from that perspective, the grassroots is not in the lead, but I’m waiting to hear.
- Michael
  
  oh wow caps, must mean you mean business, why so “obsessed with my comments?” It seems you have no problem in demonizing the Palestinians.
  
  BTW when you talk of “Horrors” are you getting your information from HRW,AA and many other human rights groups? funny enough when those same groups talks about the “Horrors” israel inflicts on the Palestinians I bet you sing a different tone.
  - Dutp
    
    @3db22905c1df08955a1460223852bc4b:disqus The only one `obsessed’ with your comments is none other than yourself. Typical style of pro-pali `freedom fighter’ BS.
    - Michael
      
      BS to uniformed folks like yourself, common knowledge to anyone elses.
      
      Of course Evidence is not to your advantage. It doesn’t help the portrayal of Palestinians as an evil danger and ruins their image. its no wonder why most academics and intellectuals have largely turned their back to Israel, as well as most educated and read students. Israel relies on misinformation and propaganda that is easy to break apart if you have evidence. So folks like yourself rely on pure hearsay.
- Michael
  
  oh wow caps, must mean you mean business, why so “obsessed with my comments?” It seems you have no problem in demonizing the Palestinians.
  
  BTW when you talk of “Horrors” are you getting your information from HRW,AA and many other human rights groups? funny enough when those same groups talks about the “Horrors” israel inflicts on the Palestinians I bet you sing a different tone.
http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

Moderate voices in Hamas? That’s a category without content.

Michael

Some may say not to work with hamas but before the state of Israel was created there were
many Jewish terrorist groups,(the Lehi terrorist group actually offered to work with Hitler for a state, one such leader of another jewish terrorist group became one of Israel’s
P.M. Even know the Lehi group was at first banned and given amnesty for there terrorism before the state was created, they are now honored since the 1980′s as helping to establish the state of israel.

For context stake, the WJS reported that Hamas was spawned by israel to weaken the far more Secular PLO starting around the late 1970′s up to about 1994 dealing with the blind cleric that would was known for his radical views.

Michael

Can’t take credit for the below post but it’s interesting,

Btw, considering that Zionist terrorists did not stop their attacks and
terrorism until the creation of Israel through the UN in 1948, why
should we expect the Palestinians to stop their terrorism first and then
have a state? Why don’t we hold the Palestinians to the same standards
as Zionist terrorists like the Irgun (which captured British soldiers,
executed them and hung them on trees) or the Haganah, groups that formed
the current Likud party. On that note, Likud should not be supported
either since it was founded by an ex-terrorist (Begin) and led by major
war criminals (one of the most notorious being the mass-murderer
Sharon).

Is the reason why we don’t because we believe that there is something
intrinsically different between Zionist terrorism and Islamic/Arab
terrorism? Or perhaps because Israel glorifies its old terrorism against
the British as “liberation” and has not yet learned what 1+1 equals?

Michael

A Palestinian view

Editorial in Palestinian Al-Quds

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13266501

This occasion should remind the West in general and the United States in particular – as well as all those fighting what they call international terrorism – that occupation, oppression, stealing others’ rights and the absence of justice are all focal points for fanaticism. They should be reminded that anyone fighting this fanaticism should fight the reasons behind it as well as those who are trying to exploit it.

I also like to ask the guest why western media does not report:

the current government of Likud Flatly rejects a Palestinians state? and also rejects the two state solution of splitting Jerusalem in two? Also if he could how the Palistians leaked papers revealed that the P.A. offer israel nearly all settlements except on in E-Jerusalem and how Israel rejected the offer?

For the folks that believe that the Israeli are the only ones suffering from acts of terrorism, check this out the link talks about the countless attacks of Palestinians(included but not limited to shooting at funerals, pepper spraying children, attacks on homes,crops, schools and mosques, attacks of both young and old, firing on water tanks, and forcefully evicting residents) in the moderate Fatah control West Bank

Some links,

After a bound civilian was shot in the foot and the outcome

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/idf-commander-involved-in-shooting-bound-palestinian-evades-jail-term-1.339516

Jewish settlers fire at civilians in East Jerusalem

http://www.paltelegraph.com/world/middle-east/77-middle-east/9015-jewish-settlers-fire-at-civilians-in-east-jerusalem.html

Palestinians test out Gandhi-style protest, later the leader of such peaceful protests in the west bank was charged and arrested for what the IDF calls incitement aka protesting.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8618868.stm

After the tragic death of 5 israeli,

http://www.aljazeerah.info/News/2011/April/25%20n/Illegal%20Israeli%20Settlers%20on%20Rampage%20in%20the%20West%20Bank%20After%20Killing%20a%20Sneaking%20Settler%20by%20a%20Palestinian%20Security%20Officer,%20April%2025,%202011.htm

Michael

Of course Hamas are nothing close to being angels and don’t support them, but so too it must be noted that Israel is no angel. Hamas fires at israel and claims because all Jewish Israeli (exception of OJ) are conscripted that there fair game, so too does israel make a similar claim that anyone working,dealing, or anyway shape or form part of hamas are fair targets including children and women, aid workers,local policeman, etc when dealing with hamas. And if anyone ever listen to Avigdor Lieberman or read about his rallies you will find the similar hate of arabs. As well if you follow the polls in israel you will find a sharp increase in racism against arabs, the higher the # the more religious one is, nor look at the current Israeli government that passed over 21+ laws discriminating against it’s minorities, and even still with israel claiming natural group it’s 20% minority lives on 3% of the land in israel and receives less than 5% funding

The PLO will have a far better chance at statehood going to the U.N. than dealing with this current right-wing government, there many in the israeli left that has been trying to bring a peaceful solution only to be attacked by right-wing settlers and calls for treason.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/left-and-right-clash-at-tel-aviv-rally-to-support-palestinian-state-1.357368

The youths, ages 16-18, many of them good friends from school, had stood
for a long time before the event began at the intersection near the
hotel, waving Israeli flags and shouting “Death to the Arabs” and “No
loyalty, no citizenship” at passing cars.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/elections/lieberman-s-anti-arab-ideology-wins-over-israel-s-teens-1.269489

The interview followed the annual democracy index poll, the results of
which were released by the Israel Democracy Institute earlier this week.
According to the poll, 33 percent of Israeli Jews think Israeli Arabs
should be placed in internment camps in the event of a war, and 53
percent of Israeli Jews voiced support for the state encouraging Arabs
to emigrate.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/lieberman-blames-arab-leaders-for-rising-racism-among-israeli-jews-1.328300

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/settlers-attack-palestinian-village-to-protest-police-crackdown-1.287409

As well the U.S. should be the last one to be the middleman since it’s proven the U.S. cannot be a fair broker(even when it’s there own interest at stake. I much prefer Jerusalem be international territory and that the U.N. control the borders in gaza and the west bank and that both hamas and likud were away from the negotiating table in favor for Labour and Fatah.

Dutp

yawn. So what? yawn …

William

At the end of the day these two groups are just thugs hiding behind a political movement.

Zeno

Agreed, the Democrats and Republicans are… Oops wrong thugs.
- Ellen Dibble
  
  Come to think of it, what about declaring a Tea Party homeland, maybe in Detroit, or if that’s too “union,” maybe Pittsburgh and its environs. Non-Tea-Party types could be displaced by preeminent domain (I think is the word), and relocate elsewhere. But, as a tax-free zone, this area would be a great draw to Tea Party types. If there were taxable zone isolated on the west and the east — the geography doesn’t lend itself to use in my simile. Consider Hawaii, one particular island, with taxable areas on either tip of the island. No visas will be issued from other islands because this is a Democrat-free zone. It gets complicated.
  - Michael
    
    or a atheist homeland in the Vatican? Sure that wouldn’t cause any issues.
    - Ellen Dibble
      
      Right. Then have the French and the Spanish arm the Vatican, with stealth this and that, nuclear this and that, and so on and so forth. They wouldn’t want the Vatican to be taken over by the atheists, who once they get the foot in the door would overwhelm the Vatican, because after all, globally, the atheists are in the ascendant. Or rather, Catholicism is in the genes, not in the culture, so there is something invulnerable about Catholic identity. But Vatican government is not motherhood and apple pie, not chutzpah and rye bread. Instead, Vatican government is about two-track rights and obligations. The atheist sector is more of a ghetto. Something like that.
- Cory
  
  Tee hee!
http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

It’s something like the two sides in Northern Ireland, except that there’s a lot of geopolitics involved in this particular conflict.

Ellen Dibble

This conversation may be “jumping the gun,” in that isn’t Syria “behind” Hamas? And if Syria morphs into another entity, what will Hamas be?

http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

What about a three-state solution, something along the lines of Inda, Pakistan, and Bangladesh? There would be a Gaza state for Hamas, a Westbank state for Fatah, and Israel would be free of both.

Ellen Dibble

I heard some talking head say that Palestine can never be a viable nation divided as it is geographically. If Egypt thinks this is a possibility and fosters Palestinian reconciliation between Gaza and the West Bank, does Egypt have a vision I don’t know about?
Who in Egypt fostered this?

Ellen Dibble

What if Gaza became part of Egypt, and the West Bank part of Syria?

http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

Unlikely–The nations around Israel don’t want to absorb the Palestinians, who would be a destabilizing element. Besides which, the Arab countries like using the Palestinians to stir up trouble in Israel.
- Ellen Dibble
  
  I’m thinking Syria will change. I’m thinking Egypt is changing. The youth of all these nations probably have less use for scratching at ancestral wounds if they have better things to do. I mean, isn’t there a great deal to be gained by simply beating the arms into ploughshares and moving ahead?
  - http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp
    
    The surrounding Arab nations look at the Palestinians as a kind of backwoods cousin that no one wants to invite over for a visit.

Michael

darn, I had hope that this show would be more objective but, of course Tom brings on a propergandist from the JPOST. I do hope tom will question or balance what this (sic) reporter is saying right now?

2006, both the U.S. and Israel pushed for elections in hope Hamas would loss but they won, once they won israel stepped up assisanations and bombings 7k bombs dropped and pushed fatah to expel hamas in gaza.

Come Tom no reporters from ynet news or Haaztaz ? All JPost has is weak talking points mostly debunked.

http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

Oh, yes, the Israelis have bombed those pacifist Hamas members in Gaza without cause. . .
http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

You may notice that the guests are a reporter from an Israeli newspaper and a Palestinian intellectual who was once a politician. That seems to shift the balance toward the Palestinians.
- Michael
  
  You may have notice that such Isralei reporter was from the Jpost, and provided very little to the conversation. He was also given nearly uninterrupted air time, and no time for counter questions to what he was proclaiming, least the Palestinian guest attempted at moderation.
  
  Listen again if you wish and see the tone and manner of both.
Anonymous

You know Michael how about we only have Palestinians on this show.

Would that make you happy? You’re an ideologue trying to bash Israel at any expense. I’m hearing a Sari Nusseibeh state some pretty pro Palestinian view points with some valid points and ideas that seem pretty balanced with the other view point.
- Michael
  
  “You know Michael how about we only have Palestinians on this show.”
  
  like Fatah/hamas deal?
  
  “You’re an ideologue trying to bash Israel at any expense. ”
  
  of course your not, or should I call you a israeli human rights abuse apologist?
  
  I’m not against Sari Nusseibeh, my comment was on Horovitz who was quite happy in bashing hamas,fatah and all palestinians
Dutp

Horovits speaks for whole FIVE minutes in introduction and then it turns to be 40 minutes of non sequiter, barely comprehensible mumbling by so-called arab intellectual. Fair and balanced indeed. The only person missing was Hannan Ashrawi (whatever the spelling) to make it really neutral. LOL. Tom you should know better. Shame on you.

loay

Actually what is more interesting is what this says about Egypt and its future foreign policy. Israel had over thirty years to make peace with the Arabs with Egypt and Jordan acting against the wishes of their own citizens. Israel missed its opportunity. It will never come back.

Ellen Dibble

I heard Donilon saying all over the Sunday morning shows that the issues between Pakistan and the United States have to be discussed and resolved in privacy, among the diplomats, and not between the shouting masses of Americans (celebrating the death of bin Laden) and the shouting masses of Pakistanis (basically against Americans intruding on their sovereign territory, basically supporting extremists), and it seems to me the problem in Pakistan is the fear of the extremists. Governors have to secretly (at least) support certain terrorist groups because they are afraid of being assassinated (there are two recent assassinations of those opposing the rule making it a crime to criticize Islam). And Pakistan threatens that if we don’t stay on board with them regardless, hey, they have nukes for sale.
In Israel and Palestine, it seems the same. But the diplomatic efforts seem at total loggerheads. The Economist magazine describes America’s special diplomat ferrying back and forth with zero progress.
So the people at the top may say it’s up to the authorities to agree or disagree. But I agree with @geffe who says basically all sides at the grassroots have to be deeply committed to peace, then it will come to pass. So far, one votes for the most militant, out of fear, not for the most compromising.

Jmgriess

Israel operates like a thug supported by USA military weapons. Gee, I wonder why angry Arabs blame the USA by lumping us in with Israel’s who continue to steal more land and suppress the Palestinian people. Nothing will change in the Middle East until the USA give more balanced support to both Israel and the Palestinian people. FYI, I am not anti-Semitic, just anti-Israel.

http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

And the Palestinians are proxy fighters for other countries in the Middle East that want to destroy Israel.

See how both sides can be framed in the worst possible way?
Cory

Okay, I just made you president of the US. What would you do about Israel?
Cory

Okay, I just made you president of the US. What would you do about Israel?
Dutp

Israel operates like she is supposed to given the party on the other side. I mean almost like it, since we’re still having this conversation.

Davidsokolo

the reason for fatah to team up with hamas is that they want in sept 2011 to install their Universal Declaration of independence at the UN.
they know countries will not agree on a Palestinian state without a united Palestinian state so they have given up(for now)on American and isreal economic aid.
The ideological differences between hamas and fatah are not that different

Armand

The professor mentioned human rights for Palestinians but he forgot to mention that the human right they’ve claimed foremost is the right to kill Jews. Once that is out of the way, other rights would follow. Palestinians used to travel freely, both from West Bank and Gaza, to work in Israel and mingled freely with the Israelis. Only violence by Palestinians, which began after the “peace” accords, led to the restrictions of movement, walls etc. – they were not there for decades prior to the murderous terrorism.

Ellen Dibble

Nusseibeh is saying the question is whether there will be enough territory for a state, if I hear right. I believe Tom Friedman has been asking about that for a while. Especially with the degree of honeycombing created by “settlers.” Even if the two parts of Palestinian territory were unified, with constant helicopter flights uniting the two sections, it seems unlikely. One would be like Monaco, one would be like Lichtenstein. Like Switzerland, totally disarmed and peaceful. Hmm. How many centuries would it take to create such moderate and therefore self-sufficient nations.

http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

Tiny states can be successful. Think of Hong Kong before the return to China or Singapore. It requires better cultural choices by the citizens of the state, but it can be done.
- Ellen Dibble
  
  There are huge conflicts over water and other basic needs, however, and if Palestine and Israel cannot consider themselves joined at the hip and surviving together if at all, then I have my doubts.
  - Michael
    
    Hi ellen,
    
    If your interested, check out Norm Chomsky at Clark University, Worcester, MA April 12th. It’s a hour and a half long but well worth it.
    
    He talks about such as you described, I also challenge Greg Camp or Geffe to listen to it
    .
    
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUsXt8TmVfU
http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

Switzerland is hardly disarmed. They have one of the best militaries in the world for its size.

http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

The Palestinians are partners for peace? What keeps happening is a left-leaning government in Israel will offer just about everything that the Palestinians say that they want, but the offer gets rejected, without any counteroffer. Then come more rockets.

Michael

What left leaning government? Likud? it’s allies? even Kadima has shifted to the right.

“just about everything ”

“jerusalem is the eternal capital of israel” the Current P.M. has stated this many times.

“Palestinians say that they want”

stop building on there land was a call, seems it didn’t happen even during the supposed freeze over 20+ settlements were breaking the ban. This was stated by the defense M. in the Knesset.

“Palestinians say that they want”

Treated like humans, protection from settlers and stop land grabs

“but the offer gets rejected”

check the P.A. papers leaked and see who actually is rejecting such, also check the 1990′s resolutions by the house to and again see who is rejecting such.

RG

Hamas, an organization that Israel helped to create in order to counter the influence of Fatah. It’s kind of ironic that this same organization is now Israel’s biggest headache.

Anonymous

What? Oh please.

Anonymous

It is interesting how some of the people posting here reflect more problems than solutions. Using words like thugs and inflammatory rhetoric to incite a response is not adding to this discussion.

Listen to Sari Nusseibeh and learn something.

http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

If someone stands in my yard and shouts, “I’m going to kill you,” I’m not going to open the door and invite the person inside. Until Hamas stops declaring itself to be in armed struggle against Israel, there can be no peace with Hamas.

PlowsharesCathy

Hey Greg, you got it wrong. When the people of Gaza say anything to Israel, They are standing outside their own door. They are standing outside their own home which Israel has been occupying for 64 years. There were people living in present day Israel and they were the Palestinians. They were displaced during the 1948 war. The country that does not want peace is Israel, they are the ones with the military might, thanks to the American taxpayer. And they are the ones who want to continue their expansionism. Hamas has said repeatedly that they are willing to live side by side with Israel within its 1948 borders. Remember the words of Moses. Though shall not kill, steal, covet, or bear false witness.

Joan

like Abbas is not right wing with his Holocaust denying thesis .

Michael

or the spiritual leader of Shas coalition government calling
Rabbi calls for annihilation of Arabs or
r Mahmoud Abbas to “vanish from our world.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11127409

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1270038.stm

or from the leading

Gentile sperm leads to barbaric offspring.

(http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4006385,00.html)

Rabbis probed for alleged incitement

http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3647392,00.html

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3518000,00.html

‘There’s no prohibition against killing gentile who violated Laws of Noah’http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3925115,00.htmlSome may say that this is on the fringe but after this incident the likud lead government, including the shas party and Nationist party came together to pass a law making rabbi’s immune to incitement charges. The below is the outcome,
Religious lawmakers propose bill providing legal immunity to rabbis

Bill was proposed after police issued an arrest
warrant for Rabbi Dov Lior, who supported a book which justifies
killing non-Jews.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/religious-lawmakers-propose-bill-providing-legal-immunity-to-rabbis-1.343805

Hopefully Israeli will wake up and move away from such extremist.

golam

What happened to David Horowitz voice. This show on the aniversery of Israel’s birth is a sham. It proves they deserve the title NPR National Palestinian Radio. Stop funding NPR

http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/ Greg Camp

Hamas is a name the way that the Bloods and Crips are just names. Someone needs a dose of reality.

golam

oh thanks for the token jew “shalom” getting through on air. un Fing believable

PlowsharesCathy

Keep in mind that in 1850, there were only about 550 Jews in Palestine, not because the Arabs were hostile to them, but because Palestine was just not that prosperous. The Jews were the merchants, bankers, doctors, and factory owners of Europe. They were the ruling class in Europe. Then in the early 1900s they decided they wanted Palestine. Israel has been engaged in ethnic cleansing for the past 64 years. They were not satisfied with the 1/3 of the land of Palestine that the UN gave them in 1947, so they started a murderous campaign of ethnic cleansing. This is known as the “Israeli war for independence.” After 1948, Jews controlled 77% of the land of Palestine. But they weren’t satisfied with that so they attacked Egypt and Jordan in 1967, and gained all the land of of Palestine, and then also attacked Syria to gain occupation of the Golan Heights. Since then they have been busy with land confiscations and building settlements on confiscated land. Oit, there’s a name for this: it’s called ethnic cleansing.

Anonymous

Your absurd take on Jewish European history is only out shined by it’s offensiveness.
Dutp

cleansing? really? Arabs in that region (so-called Palestinians) are the fifth fastest growing populace on Earth. Wonder how does that square with the outlandish `cleansing’ remarks made by all pali sympathizers on every forum.

Mark

5 min of Horowitz very moderate views vs 55 min of Nusseibeh pre-Oslo, totally irrelevant even among his own people PLO propaganda.

Fair and Balanced NPR style

U_mtate

Horowitz moderate views?lol

about as moderate as with palin on liberals. dude
- Mark
  
  Not moderate. Very moderate, centrist pragmatic views.
  
  But of course, you gotta believe that yours extreme radical left views and offensive language are those of moderates. Lol.
  - Michael
    
    Horowitz claims that, “During the same period 1993-1999 Israelis were so desperate for peace that they reciprocated these acts of murder by giving the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza [...] 95 percent of the territory their negotiators demanded.” In fact, the Palestinian negotiators consistently demanded what all UN resolutions did: the territories occupied in 1967. Horowitz surely knows that they have been given a Bantustanian autonomy not in 95 percent, but in approximately 13 percent of these territories.
    - Mark
      
      That is another piece of loony fantasy. The side that initiated and then lost the war is not in the position to claim or demand it’s lost territory. No country even in recent history was doing that, be it USA, USSR, Turkey or others. Yet, just a mere fact that Israel was willing (and actually gave) parts’ of it’s historic land to PLO thugs from Tunis in exchange of empty promises of piece should tell more that clearly to any sane person who are the good guys , and who are the bad guys here. Arabs are given total independence in Gaza which they turned into Iranian Revolutionary Guards enclave to wage war on Israel. And they do have total control of their population centers in Jehuda and Shomrom supported by huge cash infusions paid by European taxpayers.
  - Michael
    
    Horowitz claims that in 1978, “under the Camp David accords that Sadat signed, Israel returned the entire Sinai with all its oil riches. This act demonstrated once and for all that the solution to the Middle East conflict was ready at hand. It only required the willingness of the Arabs to agree.” Not exactly: it also required the willingness of Israel to agree. In fact, President Sadat had offered peace to Israel under the same conditions back in 1971; Israel rejected the offer, Egypt and Syria launched the 1973 war, and only after that (and after 2,500 Israeli casualties) did Israel accept the very terms it had rejected earlier.
    - Mark
      
      Sorry, but you need to learn the history from other than sources than Egyptian “Al-Ahram” or Hizbollah “Al-Manar”. It is not Horowitz claims. It is the fact. Israel always stretched his hand to his neighbors (which would have never recognized it to this day and repeatedly and openly expressed their desire to murder all the Jews in Israel , if not massive US briberies of the top Egyptian and Jordan ruling illegitimate regimes and multi billion infusions into their economies which is incapable of feeding their own populations) pre and post 67 war. In fact, less than a month after it stunning victory it offered to give all territories back in return for Peace Agreement with Arabs. It has gotten back a triple No from the Arab League from Khartoom.

Anonymous

I think the producers should at least try and keep people who are making offensive comments from posting. When someone posts that Jews were the ruling classes of Europe and that they are ethnic cleansing this is right out of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, or some of the other anti-Semitic dribble that is out there. It’s pretty offensive.

Gary

There is no such thing as anti-semitism on the Left…only “Islamophobia”

Dee

The falsehood of the David Horovitz’s claim that Jews have a so called
“right ” to Israel in Palestine and his self rightous condemnation of the Palestinian Factions….

I wonder who died and gave Jews an exclusive ” right” to Israel in the
land of Palestine? A historic connection does not entitle and group to claim a sovereign right…. So let’s get that clear up front here…

Christians cannot claim a sovereign right to Jereusalem even though it
was the birthplace of Jesus Christ nor a sovereign right to the land of Rome although Peter the disciple built the Christian Church there.

Indeed, many like myself who are so fed up with Israel’s lawlessness
and violence rightly argue Israel shouldn’t have a place at the table
at the UN since its leadership has failed to honor the terms of their
state’s existence in 1948 –to recognize a sovereign Palestinian state
(UN Resolution 181) and allow the return of the Palestinian refugees
“to their home” in Israel (Resolution 194.)

Remember, the Zionist land thieves uprooted over 3/4 of million Pale-
stians from their portion of the UN partition of Palestine in 1948 be-
fore the British gave up the mandate –knowing full well there was
no one on the ground to stop them. And they continue to practice
this lawlessness and ruthlessness today in the Palestinian territories
with hundreds of illegal settlements and thousands of illegal settlers
on Palestinian land…

Lastly, David Horovitz’s needs to look in the mirror when he complain about Fatah and Hamas in fighting..What about his own Zionists gangs such as the Stern Gangs and Irgun and created havoc in the Palestinian country forcing out the British and blowing up their military instillation
centres –including blowing up The King David Hotel in 1946 -killing some 90 Britsh military and diplomatic staff. And it is widely reported –the Zionists gangs assassinated their own also and killed Envoys to the region -including the UN envoy Count Bernadotte for voicing his ob-
jection over the disconnect of seeing Jewish Refugees arrive in Tel
Aviv while Palestinian refugees were blocked from returning to their homes after the uprooting…

This is the injustice that is still going on and people of conscience
like myself will no longer accept the Israeli narrative …Indeed, I
don’t believe it is far fetched to say–either the Israeli settlements
go today—or Jews will lose their support to stay in Palestine as a
people. ….This is 21st reality for Jews in Israel today….

The world has moved beyond settlements and Israel and will no longer tolerate the state’s status quo against the Palestinian people today…

Their right to live in peace on their sovereign land supercedes Israeli need today….That’s the bottom line there…The world is tired of this Israeli injustice….Get off Palestinian land or go……Dee

Mgcareurhers

Dee! Give it a rest! Please! I won’t be satisfied until each and every member of Ham-ass and Fatal has his full measure of virgins and is thoroughly ensconced in whatever hel..ER ah heaven awaits then next life. What the palestinians don’t get is they are the butt of the rest of the Arab world’s “hillbilly” joke. I mean really; why are they not welcome in the schools and places of higher education in any of their brother Arab countries? For God’s sake! They’ve even gone so far as to re-write and refigured the Koran so you’ll blow yourselves up lest you see what fools you are. Stop believing the hype. Join in with these zionists they want you to fear. You might be surprised how far you get toward captaining your own future. How many more billions of the world’s largess do your so-called leaders have to steal before you seize the reins and use that money to feed, clothe, house and educate the next generation of truly free Palestinians.

Dee

Oops. Anyone who has any second thoughts about the ruthlessness and
lawlessness of Israeli soldiers or Zionist gangs can view this award winn-
ing video by Salman Abu Sitta who was a victim of Zionist terrorism in
the Palestinian territories during the 1967 phony war to grab more Pale-
stinian land and listen to his reconstruction on the events of 1948 ….

He claims the Zionists destroyed his life and home ever since…
http://www.archive.org/details/Salman_Abu_Sitta He is only one
of thousands and millions of Palestinians expressing this feeling to-
day . And as a people of conscience we all have a moral duty to
end this savage Zionist assault of his homeland….Dee

Gary

You mean grab more Jordanian land, probably. But, who knows? Your ranting here is nonsense.
Mark

Lol, that is a long list. Straight from Fatah textbooks. Nice job, though a few sentences would have been enough to see your tue colors.
Mgcareuthers

Dee has, unfortunately, as they say: his or her head so deeply lodged up the nether regions of one’s anatomy that his eyes are brown. Feature this thought: if Canada was lobbing missiles our way, would I be remiss if I was not denying them their basic human rights? Stop behaving like ravening beasts bent on Isreal’s destruction and we’ll see about your rights.

Michael

WSJ,

How Israel Helped to Spawn Hamas

By ANDREW HIGGINS
Moshav Tekuma, Israel
Surveying the wreckage of a neighbor’s bungalow hit by a Palestinian rocket, retired Israeli official Avner Cohen traces the missile’s trajectory back to an “enormous, stupid mistake” made 30 years ago.
“Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel’s creation,” says Mr. Cohen, a Tunisian-born Jew who worked in Gaza for more than two decades. Responsible for religious affairs in the region until 1994, Mr. Cohen watched the Islamist movement take shape, muscle aside secular Palestinian rivals and then morph into what is today Hamas, a militant group that is sworn to Israel’s destruction.
Instead of trying to curb Gaza’s Islamists from the outset, says Mr. Cohen, Israel for years tolerated and, in some cases, encouraged them as a counterweight to the secular nationalists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and its dominant faction, Yasser Arafat’s Fatah. Israel cooperated with a crippled, half-blind cleric named Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, even as he was laying the foundations for what would become Hamas. Sheikh Yassin continues to inspire militants today; during the recent war in Gaza, Hamas fighters confronted Israeli troops with “Yassins,” primitive rocket-propelled grenades named in honor of the cleric.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_EGAEWDBEXGRHV5D4OHAW6V4DMI Sunhillow

Israel, which was created with the help of its two main terrorist groups Irgun and Haganah, has had from its inception different political parties in its ruling cabinet that were and are against the creation of a Palestinian state.

If the Palestinians have been able to negotiate for the last 20 years with every one of these Israeli administrations then I’m sure Israel can deal with a Palestinian government that has some people who are against Israel.

Hamas is, after all, a political party just like the Israeli political parties who have it in ther chart the prevention of a Palestinian state and/or a call for the expulsion or transfer of Palestinians.

If you can say that the Zionists have the right to take land by force I can easily reply Palestinians have a right to take it back by force. But there’s no need to get into that kind of mindset since the implemention of UN resolutions would solve the problem. In particular UN resolution 242 passed by the US and the UN some 44 years ago.

Now, I need to remind people that when negotiations were ongoing during Yasser Arafat’s rule Israel did indeed offer most of the West Bank and Gaza back but, unfortuntely, it insisted on keeping control of all the borders of Palestine, all of its air space, all of its shores, over 80% of its water resources (whatever water is flowing under and above ground in the Occupied Territories), and have a say of who goes in and out of Palestine.

So if Palestinians said “no” to Israel it’s more because they were trying to fine tune the agreement and not reject the entire thing.

THE ORIGINAL SIN:

“If we had invested in the Arab problem a tenth of the energy, the passion, the ingenuity, the resourcefulness which we developed in order to gain the support of Britain, France, the US and Weimar Germany, our destiny in the development of Israel may have been quite different. We were not ready for compromises; we did not regard it as a major problem. We did not make sufficient efforts to get, if not the full agreement of the Arabs, at least their acquiescenceto a Jewish state, which I think would have been possible. That was the original sin.”

Dr. Nahum Goldmann, former president of the World Jewish Congress

Dan

how about giving back what belongs to the 1 milllion jews kicked out of Arab countries!!!
- http://pulse.yahoo.com/_EGAEWDBEXGRHV5D4OHAW6V4DMI Sunhillow
  
  Go ahead and help yourself. If you’ve got a problem with Germany, or Iraq, or even Papua New Guinea go ahead and feel free to take your problems to them and leave us alone.
  But for crying out loud stop picking and choosing anything that has been said or done by anyone of the 1.5 billion muslims around the world to justify taking your anger on us.
  Thank you.
- Michael
  
  Yehoshua Porath(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yehoshua_Porath) address this when he debunked Joan Peters “Times
  Immemorial.
  
  http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/1986/jan/16/mrs-peterss-palestine/?page=3
  
  Mrs. Peters puts great emphasis on the claim that during and after the
  1948 war an “exchange of populations” took place. Against the Arabs who
  left Palestine one had to put, in her view, about the same number of
  Jews, most of them driven by the Arab rulers from their traditional
  homes in the Arab world. And indeed there is a superficial similarity
  between the two movements of population. But their ideological and
  historical significance is entirely different. From a Jewish-Zionist
  point of view the immigration of the Jews of the Arab countries to
  Israel, expelled or not, was the fulfillment of a national dream—the
  “ingathering of the exiles.” Since the 1930s the Jewish Agency had sent
  agents, teachers, and instructors to the various Arab countries in order
  to propagate Zionism. They organized Zionist youth movements there and
  illegal immigration to Palestine. Israel then made great efforts to
  absorb these immigrants into its national, political, social, and
  economic life.
  - Michael
    
    For the Palestinian Arabs the flight of 1948 was completely
    different. It resulted in an unwanted national calamity that was
    accompanied by unending personal tragedies. The result was the collapse
    of the Palestinian community, the fragmentation of a people, and the
    loss of a country that had in the past been mostly Arabic-speaking and
    Islamic. No wonder that the Arabs look at what happened very
    differently. When Mrs. Peters argues, as many Israeli and pro-Israeli
    spokesmen once did, that all refugees should live and be rehabilitated
    in their new countries, the Arabs reply that all refugees should go back
    to their countries of origin. When, in 1976, they invited former Jewish
    citizens to return, they did so not only from the mistaken belief that
    Oriental Jews’ attachment to Israel was weak, but also from the need to
    refute the Israeli argument, now repeated forcefully by Mrs. Peters,
    that there was a symmetry between the two movements of population.
    
    aliyah (ascendance, the usual Hebrew
    word for immigration to Israel) of the Oriental Jews of Arab countries.
    Did this dangerous work count for nothing? Were the immigrants merely
    ordinary refugees and not people ascending to Zion? By attempting to
    equate the Arab refugees with the Jewish immigrants, Mrs. Peters, in my
    view, tarnishes a heroic chapter in Zionist history.
    - Dutp
      
      you’re right for once: there is an undeniable deference between two groups of refugees in question. Arabs left what was about to become the land of Israel in response to the call by their brethren to give way to advancing Arab armies to cleanse area of Jews entirely. They left on short notice with intent to return when things were to be sorted out. Jews from Arabic countries on the other hand, were literally stripped of their property and other possessions and shown the door, they were never expected to knock on again.
    - Michael
      
      Talk about distortion. of course with one like yourself, reality is a far thing away. Yehoshua Porath explain what you just side is false and solerly based on ideology with nothing to back it up other than
      Antidotal and blind belief.
      
      what he wrote below,
      
      Mrs. Peters’s use of sources is very selective and tendentious, to say the least. In order to strengthen the impression that the “hidden hand” of history somehow brought about the reasonable solution of exchange of Jewish and Arab populations, Mrs. Peters evidently wanted to show that the concept had an honorable lineage. She quotes an “Arab leader” who talked of a population exchange in a leaflet distributed in Damascus in 1939, and gives his name as Mojli Amin. I challenge any reader to identify this “leader.” He is not mentioned in any of the books on Syria I know of, although I have read many. And if some wholly unimportant writer made such a statement, how can any serious importance be attached to it? But beyond that, I think that the leaflet is a fake. During the spring of 1939 internal dissent was at its most intense among the factions of the militant Palestinian Arabs, which included anti-British rebels, anti-Jewish rebels, and the “Peace Companies,” which opposed rebellion. In Damascus, where the headquarters of the rebels were located, faked leaflets were often distributed in order to add to the dissension. I suspect that this leaflet was another example of the same literary genre. If Mrs. Peters had more thoroughly investigated the files of the Arab section of the political department of the Jewish Agency, she would, I hope, have seen why the evidence she cites should be used more cautiously.
    - Dutp
      
      what a crock of .. BS from our cut’n'paste-no-original-thought master. go on. no evidence, no thoughts, no merit.
    - Michael
      
      ??, I provided evidence, you did not. If that the best your got than you clearly failed.
      
      Assuming since you provided no evidences the reason is you can’t, so you chooses to personally attack than dispute what you clearly cannot.
    - Dutp
      
      what evidence did you provide ? The only one I have seen is you making
      yourself look like an idiot which undoubtedly you’re. That’s about it.
      Go invest in a good book, then you you can come back for more ownage..
    - Michael
      
      Reduced to ad hom name calling. LOL
      
      Again, I provided my sources and links to back myself up. For example Israeli historian Yehoshua Porath.
      
      ou have not provided any evidences to your claims whatsoever.. Not even once. The only thing you provided is ad hom attacks and anecdotal evidences in place of actual evidences.
    - Michael
      
      As historians of the 1948 war know well, the Haganah prepared in March 1948 a strategic plan (the Dalet or “fourth” plan) to deal with the imminent invasion of Palestine by the Arab countries. A major aim of the plan was to form a continuous territory joining the lands held by the Jewish settlements. The plan clearly states that if Arab villages violently opposed the Jewish attempt to gain control, their populations would be expelled. The text was first made public in Israel in 1972 as an appendix to the last volume of the semiofficial History of the Haganah.
    - Dutp
      
      was this plan executed or had just remain as it was, just a plan?
      
      I’m sure if we just have a glimpse into arab plans and make our decisions based on that we will have no choice but go into all out offensive. so do the world a favor and take all you BS to Al Jazeera if they will be willing to tolerate you there.
    - Michael
      
      Mrs. Peters overlooked this important document. That the plan existed, of course, is not in itself evidence that it was carried out. Neither, however, is the admission of the Syrian leader Khalid al-Azm that the Arab countries urged the Palestinian Arabs to leave their villages until after the victory of the Arab armies final proof that the Palestinian Arabs in practice heeded that call and consequently left. Since Mrs. Peters supposedly took the trouble to read Khalid al-Azm’s Arabic memoirs, she at least should have consulted the appendix of the History of the Haganah‘s last volume
      
      Check the author who wrote this hardly Al Jazeera or arab news your ad hom your keeps claiming. I listed a link to the historian.
    - Dutp
      
      yeah, right. And of cause it also proves that around 800K Jews were not kicked out of their hosting Arba countries following the establishment of state of Israel? right. You see, moron, it is impossible to talk to imbeciles like yourselves as you just learned to play the same record over and over again. Boring.
    - Dutp
      
      what evidence did you provide ? The only one I have seen is you making yourself look like an idiot which undoubtedly you’re. That’s about it. Go invest in a good book, then you you can come back for more ownage..
    - Michael
      
      “Mrs. Peters has gone to great lengths to collect the statements made by Arabs in which they admit that the Palestinian Arab refugees left Palestine because they expected Arab military victory, after which they intended to return. Nevertheless, although she admits that in sporadic instances Arabs were expelled, she ignores evidence of Israeli intentions to expel them. I would like to draw her attention to one document which proves that the Haganah did in certain circumstances have such an intention. ”
      
      Same crap that dutp and others spew, debunked by nearly all crediable historians in israel and outside.
Dutp

“So if Palestinians said “no” to Israel it’s more because they were
trying to fine tune the agreement and not reject the entire thing.”

Oh that’s what it was! Nice try. How about giving some insights into which part of `fine tuning’ 2nd intifada tried to accomplish, our home grown spin doctor?
P.S. Michael don’t even bother.

Dan

this is what they want to do to all the jews :

Lara Logan breaks her silence – 60 Minutes – CBS News

Michael

wow talk about demonization, if I recall the what happen to Lara Logan was in egypt not gaza or the west bank, and there’s no recent(if any) cases of hamas or Fatah or the Palestinians do such to a reporter.

Unless you have proof that states otherwise, than your statement is clearly baseless fear mongering, unless you believe that all arab are the same because there arabs?

Dutp

As to the one state utopia. There are 22+ states and territories governed by Arabs today. If anyone can point me to just one of those states where it would be possible to freely practice any religion other than Islam, I’d say it might be the way to go. However, since they can’t even keep cool between shia and sunnies one state `solution’ is just a poorly disguised variation on demographical takeover strategy AKA “return rights” of so-called refugees. That will never happen. Get over this Sari. Also your pathetic efforts to portray Hamas-Fatah agreement as a strategic alliance in the making is laughable. It is clear as it can possibly get, that it is nothing but a tactical move by Hamas aided by impotent PA to save both their ugly faces which are beyond redemption.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_EGAEWDBEXGRHV5D4OHAW6V4DMI Sunhillow

The Crusaders lasted 200 years, the Turks 400 years, the British 50 years, and now Israel.
While hardly 50% of the world Jewry lives in Israel over 90% of Palestinians live in and around historical Palestine.
Palestine forever and forever Palestine!!!
- Dutp
  
  two questions arise here:
  
  1) whom do you call palestinians ?
  
  2) according to PA around 1.5 to 2 million arab ‘palestinians’ are in exile which is approximately equal to the population of PA as we know it today. So it is not even nearly the 90% as claimed. Nothing surprising here , however since the overwhelming majority of `facts’ pali supporters spew here and everywhere else is just that — made up nonsense.
  - http://pulse.yahoo.com/_EGAEWDBEXGRHV5D4OHAW6V4DMI Sunhillow
    
    Sir, Palestinian refugees live in and around historical Palestine. It’s self-explanatory.
    Other than that I’m not going to waste my time arguing with someone who pretends to tell us Palestinians what our history is and is not, who we are and who we are not, and what belongs and doesn’t belong to us.
    You can go fly a kite for all I care.
    - Dutp
      
      Likewise.

GreatGunz

Did you hear Weisman? “we need to keep a jewish isreal.” He says it around 7:55. God help any american politician who talks about the need to keep a “white america.” The whole problem with Isreal is its transparently racist policies and attitudes. If we’re going to send our tax money over seas, surely we can find a better use for it than to prop up an apartheid state and antagonize millions upon millions of people who might otherwise be our friends.

Dutp

I was not the original author of that, but seems like this esteemed community would definitely benefit from the perspective and context established in the follows, enjoy:

==============================================

The land of Israel was ruled by Jewish state for around a thousand years and that was terminated by the Romans who were in turn supplanted by others and from the

16th c. to 1917 Turkish Ottoman Empire controlled the areas now called Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Israel. In World War I Turkey sided with losing Germany. The area of Lebanon and Syria went to a French mandate and the area known today as Jordan and Israel went to a British mandate.

The area called Palestine was largely desolate well into the 19th century and the general population of Palestine (including the area of today’s Jordan which is also Palestine) was tiny, just a few hundred thousand at most, of Christians, Muslims and Jews.

The late 19th century, however, saw the influx of the Jewish Zionists returning to Palestine (to which they had pined ever since being banished by the Romans) where they began to clear the malarial swamps and develop agriculture and industry, with their European education. This Zionist enterprise attracted Arab workers from all over the Mideast and these are the parents and grandparents of many of today’s Palestinian Arabs. Into the 20th century that phenomenon continued and the sharp increase in both Arab and Jewish population starts to become much better documented. (It is a myth that the Arab Palestinians are ancient residents supplanted by the Jewish European.)

In 1923, the British gave 3/4 of this area to the Arabs and allotted 1/4 for the Jews. Now the Arabs wanted all the land and could not tolerate any Jewish rule anywhere (that would be intolerable under Islam) so the Arabs continuously attacked the Jews, killing many, trying to drive them away or subjugate them (as in the 1929 Hebron massacre of Jews in their homes and the massacres by the Arabs in the late 1930s). The British basically maintained law and order at first though later in the mandate vast oil reserves were being discovered and extracted among the Arab lands in the Middle East so Britain favored Arab interests. Of course that became rather intolerable for the Jews within the British mandate so the Jews began to organize militarily, particularly since the 30 year mandate was coming to its end. This was rather problematic for the British who put it to the UN to resolve the situation.

1947 saw the British establishing the state of Jordan on 3/4 of the mandate’s territory – which was and is mostly Arab Palestinian. That is why talk today of creating a Palestinian state is really referring to another Arab Palestinian state.

In late 1947 the UN resolved to divide the remaining 1/4 of the mandate into a Jewish state and another Palestinian one (after Jordan). The Jews accepted, the Arabs did not and when the mandate formally ended and the Jews declared the State of Israel in May 1948, it was immediately attacked by Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, Yemen, Saudi Arabia and Iraq. Many of the Arabs living in the area of Israel followed the instructions of the Arab military and rapidly fled so that the Arabs could pour in and indiscriminately kill all Jews insight. (they were promised the Jewish property too). Instead, however, the Arabs lost. So the great majority of Arab refugees (more than 2/3 of the many hundreds of thousands) were actually never driven out by the Jews themselves!

Of course the Arabs who did remain became citizens of the State of Israel and they and their descendants today constitute around a quarter of Israel’spopulation and they enjoy equal voting rights and representation in Israel’s parliament. Israel, understandably, would not be particularly welcoming later to those who fled to facilitate the slaughter of the Jews and the taking of their property.

Michael

“The land of Israel was ruled by Jewish state for around a thousand years”

Again your wrong, there were two states before the Romans, not one. And before that there were many Canaanite city states who many were ethically cleanse. If you believe the old testament. Even before King david created a state he sided with what was than the jews moral enemy

The History channel Bible batters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=904cSdShfic&feature=related

Battles BC – David The Giant Slayer 1/5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igYWyL_HebQ&feature=related

“16th c. to 1917 Turkish Ottoman Empire controlled the areas now called Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Israel.”

wow what a giant gap in time. Nothing there for the 15th,14th,13th,12th,11th,10th,9th,8th, etc?

“to which they had pined ever since being banished by the Romans”

The Invention of the Jewish Peoplehttp://inventionofthejewishpeople.com/by Shlomo Sand, has found that many Jews of the old kingdom throughout centuries converted to Islam or Christianity. And modern day Palestinians have move of a connection to the Jews of the 1st and 2nd kingdom than many Europeans jews today, .

“In 1923, the British gave 3/4 of this area to the Arabs and allotted 1/4 for the Jews.”

Again Historian Yehoshua Porath debunked this claim, it comes from Joan Peters book Time Immemorial

who according to
Frank Menetrez
, writing in
CounterPunch
,
“when a number of scholars examined the book carefully, they concluded
that it was of no scholarly value whatsoever. It ignores important parts
of the documentary record, misuses the sources on which it does rely,
and contains straightforward logical errors. Consequently, according to
Menetrez, “Peters’ book has been rejected as worthless by the scholarly
community around the world, including Israel
- Michael
  
  Again your wrong,
  
  There were two states before the Romans, not one. And
  before that there were many Canaanite city states who many were
  ethically cleansed if you believe the old testament. Even before King David created a state he sided with what was than the Jews at the time mortal enemies the Philistines.
  
  “The History channel Bible Battles.
  ”
Michael

I notice you didn’t cite your source

so the Arabs continuously attacked the Jews, killing many, trying to
drive them away or subjugate them (as in the 1929 Hebron massacre of
Jews in their homes and the massacres by the Arabs in the late 1930s).

Again you omit 1000k year of history where arabs protected jews and jews were treated far better than they were in europe. You also ommit how during the first and second aliyah social Zionist pushed discrimination against arabs, including only hiring fellow jews to work for them, even pressuring plantation owners to discriminate against the cheaper arab population, this lead to violence on both sides and if you check the time line happen before 1929 hebron.

“The British basically maintained law and order at first though later in
the mandate vast oil reserves were being discovered and extracted among
the Arab lands in the Middle East so Britain favored Arab interests.”

You once again omit Jewish terrorism again the British including Lehi, and the first of what we now considered modern terrorism,
Michael

” 1947 saw the British establishing the state of Jordan on 3/4 of the
mandate’s territory – which was and is mostly Arab Palestinian. That is
why talk today of creating a Palestinian state is really referring to
another Arab Palestinian state.”

Not so and again this is derived from Joan Peters debunked book, Jordan independence was creted on it’s own accord and not part of the Israeli/Palestinians agreement ( or two states).

You also omit the

Balfour Declaration of 1917 which states,

The Balfour Declaration of 1917 (dated 2 November 1917) was a formal statement of policy by the British government stating that

His Majesty’s government view with favour the establishment in
Palestine
of a
national home for the Jewish people
,
and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of
this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done
which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing
non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status
enjoyed by Jews in any other country

Dutp gets his information from cites like this website (http://www.mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm) which in turn gets there info from Joan Peters book (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_Time_Immemorial) which the first website edited information the original website it received it from. I know this cause I cited the original website over a year plus ago to Ellen.

“Arab military and rapidly fled so that the Arabs could pour in and indiscriminately kill all Jews insight.”

Again Israeli historian Yehoshua Porath debunked this claim,see my post

Today 05:30 PM

Remember that terrorism by the Lehi or Irgun did not stop until a state was created and targeted arab, british and jews as well, Lehi even offered to help the Nazi for a state in israel. Though they were at first ban from government in israel since the 1980′s they were honored in creating the state of israel with what is known as the Lehi military Ribbon. Sounds odd for a group that On 12 January 1947, who drove a truckload of explosives into a British police station in
Haifa
killing four and injuring 140
Dutenp

@Michael. Unlike both of your apparent idols – finkel and chomsky, plus the hybrid one that you had to invent not having enough of the first two Norm Chomsky – your arguments or whatever you want to call a bunch of non sequitur statements in a reply to my quick, concise and verifiably correct primer into arab/Israeli conflict, are laughable. Some of them just prove my point others bear no meaning at all, the rest are pure lies. This is typical modus operandi of a poorly educated silly Israeli basher.

Dr. Jeff

Following 9/11, the most deadly and viscious attack on U.S. soil in our history, the State of Israel declared an official day of mourning. The Palestinians held a parade. Tom aksks tougher questions of right wing republicans than he does of Palestinian leaders and “intellectuals.” Tom lobbed a bunch of softballs. Please read, “Will Israel Survive?” by Mitchell Bard and learn from a true scholar.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_EGAEWDBEXGRHV5D4OHAW6V4DMI Sunhillow

Sir, the entire Middle East “held a parade”. According to every witness who was in the Arab countries when 9/11 happened everyone was celebrating it, not just us Palestinians.
In fact, there was an American couple dining at a Lebanese CHRISTIAN restaurant when images of 9/11 were shown on a TV set in the dining room and this couple told about how the entire place burst into applause and laughter.
What you, sir, need to understand is how this “parade” is not the result of some sadistic aspect that’s intrinsic to our psyche but rather the result of an anger and a hurt that the Arab world has been experiencing for decades because how the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been prolonged due to the financial and military support the US Congress has given Israel over the years.
Stop feeling sorry for yourself and get real.