Muslim-Americans Reflect On ‘Radicalization’

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_VDH4GYJMIUFU373W3XUQVD2V4E Patrick

I sincerely the hope the Muslim witnesses are combative, disrespectful, and accusatory (bringing up Pete King’s laudatory history with the IRA at every turn).

The days of crackpot Congressmen and Mockingbird journalists is over. Most Americans I know are sympathetic to ethnic minorities and distrust the FBI’s entrapment tactics. We are with the Muslims and against these absurd hearings!

Jim in Omaha

As is the case in all Congressional hearings, the “witnesses” are selected by the chairman with the intent to reach a foregone conclusion and to make the other party take unpopular positions. This will be just such a show. Congress doesn’t engage in fact finding and solution reaching. It engages in political theater.
Samrah_eg

The problem is that Peter King has brought in his own witnesses – careerist so-called experts in counterterrorism who want to privatize religion, denounce shari’ah etc. for their own reasons. Other witnesses, who oppose the hearings will not be there.

I am so shocked by Asra Nomani’s ignorant comments on this program. Would she go into the Jewish community and carry out a witchhunt against their conservatives? The Baptists? She is not a leader or a spokesman for the community, just a journalist out to make a $. The problem that she describes is not imaginary, but addressing it will undo constitutional protections

Michael

“Muslim-Americans Reflect on “Radicalization””

And they should, the new McCarthyism at it’s best, even heard King set up a lively group to testify how Muslims are a threat to america. And while King goes on a 2011 witch hunt he will of course overlook the extremist and radicals increase in america who are not Muslims, the Hutaree is a recent example, another is the bomb planted at the MLK parade,

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/news/us-hate-groups-top-1000

“In an 11-day period this January, a neo-Nazi was arrested as he headed for the Arizona border with a dozen homemade grenades; a terrorist bomb attack on a Martin Luther King Jr. Day parade in Spokane, Wash., was averted when police dismantled a sophisticated bomb; and a man who officials said had a long history of antigovernment activities was arrested in a car filled with explosives outside a packed mosque in Dearborn, Mich.”

Last May, two police officers in West Memphis, Ark., were murdered when they stopped a van driven by a father-son team from the “sovereign citizens” movement, part of the larger Patriot movement. Eight law enforcement officers have been killed by radical-right extremists since President Obama was elected.

The hate groups listed in this report include neo-Nazis, white nationalists, neo-Confederates, racist skinheads, Klansmen and black separatists. Other hate groups on the list target gays or immigrants, and some specialize in producing racist music or propaganda denying the Holocaust.

Michael

As well for some reason the FBI, CIA, PD,HLS,Military, can’t do there job protecting American citizens we need King to step in and protect us.

Even hearing from the right wing talks on how we at war and like WW2 should take similar actions against the American Muslims we did to the Japanese.

Of course profiling and striping or deny rights to small minorities in the U.S. is not that uncommon in the U.S. but one would think we somehow evolved from this.

BTW NPR reported that there’s prisons in the U.S. that are denying due process,using secret evidence disproportionally against people who are Muslims, discrimination was also large enough to warrant(instead of admitting they were wrong) adding “Balancers”

http://www.npr.org/2011/03/03/134168714/guantanamo-north-inside-u-s-secretive-prisons

If such a hearing involved and looked into radicalization of Americans it may increase debate or possibly solve some of the issues america is facing. Instead if focuses on one group, selectively picks it’s show ponies

Michael

Asra Nomani wrote in her WP,

“In Congress, we have had honest debate about everyone’s dirty laundry from BP to the Big Three automakers. There has been discussion in the halls of Congress about “Jewish extremists,” “white supremacists,” the Ku Klux Klan and clergy sexual abuse in the Catholic Church.”

This line is completely false or naive at best, all have been swept under the rug and any such debate she claims must have happen way before my time.

Her reasoning for why this is not a witch hunt?

“I believe he is an American, like so many, frustrated and annoyed by the largely recalcitrant posture of our community to admitting our problems”

But McCarthyism didn’t?

“There is no shame in honesty. In fact, I think we would engender more good will–and invite less anger and rage by folks frustrated by our stonewalling.”

Cause we all know Washington is the place for Honesty and Facts, and how dare people look to be stonewalling racist and xenophobes.

“Like most Muslims, I’ve seen rigid, puritanical interpretations creep into the American Muslim community, starting in the 1970s with the exportation of the dogmatic Wahhabi ideology from Saudi Arabia”

Yet Saudi Arabia is one of the U.S. main allies, we even sold 60 Billion dollars in military hardware to suppress it’s own people if need be. Also one of it’s princes is only second to Murdock in his stake in News Copr that also owns Fox News.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12663240

“I saw the Saudi ideology express itself with mandates that women and men sit strictly segregated from each other at our community potluck dinners, rather than the family style arrangements we’d been enjoying. I felt a crisis of faith and didn’t think there wasn’t a place for me as I came of age as a fierce, strong-willed girl. ”

Join the crowd many Christians and Jews could prob tell the same story if not word for word yet the focus is only on Muslims. The Amish are even harsher in america in the town i lived in Missouri we had a Amish community where many abused or battered teens came out from. Because it was there own community little was done to help such women.

“For far too long, our nation has had a politically correct stance when it comes to the question of militancy, extremism and radicalization inside Islam. In the name of interfaith dialogue,”

She must of missed the whole NY Center episode

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/03/03/hatemongering/index.html

“arlier this week in Tennessee, a bill was proposed to make it a felony to follow sharia law — which would essentially criminalize the practice of Islam in that state. Last year, mosques in Tennessee, Oregon and Georgia were targeted with apparent arson. ”

I notice no one from CAIR was invited on the show, have have read some of Leila Ahmed writings and are quite interesting

Michael

“So many well-intentioned people who are critics about issues inside their own faiths are joining the bandwagon, trying to defend Islam and Muslims, as if the faith and the community are monolithic, but our best defense, I believe, is honesty about the good, bad and ugly.”

Yet she double talks in the above statement made and the one below

For far too long, our nation has had a politically correct stance when it comes to the question of militancy, extremism and radicalization inside Islam. In the name of interfaith dialogue

If people just now are joining the bandwagon than that would mean that it wasn’t for far too long than.

“The purpose of religion is to inspire in us the best of human behavior. That includes truth-telling. ”

James Carroll’s Jerusalem show on Tuesday, March 8, 2011 stated along with many other, religions has inspired far from the best of human behaviors or truth-telling, even the stories told are bogus in themselves aka lies, Not to mention god made it clear to kill all non-believers in the bible, he also stated a bunch of other crap that the majority of religious people don’t follow today.

Michael

Lastly Tom Please ask Asra and the other guest this,

Do they believe what Peter King saying 80% mosques in this country are controlled by radical Imams.” stated on the “Laura Ingraham Show, If so would they advocating locking up all Muslims in internment camps until the war on terror is over? Would they advocate banning Islam in america?(against the first amendment) or go further and lock up all Muslims who practice Islam for security?

ttp://thinkprogress.org/2011/01/25/king-radical-mosques/

Finally, when was the last time congress was honest about anything that brought Americans together? Last I checked it took a shooting by a white male of multiple people to calm down the rhetoric and even then the debate wasn’t truthful or honest.

Michael

oh I missed this,

Support for the IRA,

“n the 1980s, King frequently traveled to Northern Ireland to meet with IRA members.[12] In 1982, speaking at a pro-IRA rally in Nassau County, New York, King said: “We must pledge ourselves to support those brave men and women who this very moment are carrying forth the struggle against British imperialism in the streets of Belfast and Derry.”

In 1985, he convened a press conference before the start of New York City’s St. Patrick’s Day parade (for which he was Grand Marshal), and offered a defiant defense of the IRA: ‘As we march up the avenue and share all the joy,’ he declared, ‘let us never forget the men and women who are suffering and, most of all, the men and women who are fighting.’”[19] Regarding the 30 years of violence during which the IRA killed over 1700 people, including over 600 civilians, King said, “”If civilians are killed in an attack on a military installation, it is certainly regrettable, but I will not morally blame the IRA for it”. King compared IRA leader Gerry Adams to George Washington and asserted that the “British government is a murder machine”

He called the IRA “the legitimate voice of occupied Ireland

Sounds like a terrorist supporter if one was British

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_T._King
Peter King’s Secret Terrorism-Loving History

Jonathan Chait
http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/peter-kings-secret-terrorism-loving-history

Seems like King has anti colonialism behavior against the Brits, hold up, did anyone check is birth Cert to see if he’s not actually Kenyan?

Jose

I commend Congressman King for holding these hearings. They may not be “P.C.”, but perhaps if the U.S. wasn’t so concerned about being P.C., 13 soldiers wouldn’t have been shot dead at Fort Hood.

Ellen Dibble

If I recall correctly, the Fort Hood killer, a psychiatrist, was not weeded out before the shooting (whatever that means) because he was being studied, the better to understand the process of radicalization of Muslims among Americans. He was the shrink being shrunken by fellow shrinks. Something like that. So that’s what I heard in the last few weeks on some news broadcast. Rather than having hearings, they just watched carefully while it happened.

William

What is wrong with a member of Congress asking questions? That is what they were elected to do.

Rob (in NY)

Peter King is in charge of the House Homeland Security Comittee. As committee chair, it would be a gross deriliction of his duty were Congress not to hold public and private hearings that seek to understand the causes of radicalization that occur in a very small minority of Muslim organizations as well as prisons. While these hearings do not and should not cast a shadow on the entire religion of Islam, any public official on either side of the political aisle who has read a security briefing understands that the threat of large terrorist operation being initiated by Muslim extremists (again, who do not represent the entire religion) far exceeds the risk of IRA or other terrorist attacks by Christian extremists within the US. To state otherwise is nothing more than an exercise in political correctness. Ask Eric Holder or Janet Napolitano what keeps them up at night.

On another note, McCarthy used his committee to make wild accusations against his domestic political opponents and blacklist other people who got in his way, including the US Army and George Marshall, which ultimately led to his downfall. His hearings had nothing to do with standing up against Soviet Communism. Peter King is not using the word terrorist to apply to all or most Muslims. The historical analogy to McCarthyism is quite simply absurd.

Michael

Hi Rob,

I disagree, King did make a wild assertion, saying 80% of mosques in the U.S. was run by radical. He provided no basis to his claim as well. Unless you can prove such his claim is true than that is one easy link to make between King and McCarthy using your basis of course of Wild assumptions.

I see you didn’t answer the question when was the last time Washington was honest? As well for dereliction of duties as you state. Both Janet Napolitano and SPLC has stated and seen a increase in Christian extremist, it’s beyond me why you would dismiss such so quickly. Yet we have heard nothing from King on this being use to another link of King and McCarthyism focusing one group and labeling the whole while ignoring or dereliction as you put it other potential threats

“Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano said Wednesday that she was briefed before the release of a controversial intelligence assessment and that she stands by the report, which lists returning veterans among terrorist risks to the U.S. ”

“The document on right-wing extremism sent last week by this department’s Office of Intelligence and Analysis is one in an ongoing series of assessments to provide situational awareness to state, local and tribal law enforcement agencies on the phenomenon and trends of violent radicalization in the United States,” Ms. Napolitano said in her statement.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/16/napolitano-stands-rightwing-extremism/

I guess even the Republicans will engage in PC behavior when it suits them. By the way King dismissed Napoliano

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/05/05/interview_with_rep_peter_king_96364.html
- Michael
  
  “Yet we have heard nothing from King on this or any hearing. But one is able yet again to link of King behavior and McCarthyism as both are sorely focusing one group and labeling such group as a whole while ignoring or dereliction of duties as you put it other potential threats”
  
  “which ultimately led to his downfall”
  
  Yet J.M. wanted to get down to the truth, King does as well and it was the people standing up to such outrage by J.M. that lead to it’s downfall not the people who supported it. One could agure that the same type of people who supported McCarthyism than would support King now, even using the same justification and reasoning of “their in our midst”
  
  McCarthyism is the practice of making accusations of disloyalty, subversion, or treason without proper regard for evidence.
  
  King stated just that, by his comment of 80% mosque in the U.S. are radical.
  
  “characterized by heightened fears of communist influence on American institutions ”
  
  Again same rational used by king of instead of communism it’s sharia law and muslims influence on American institutions.
  
  “unsubstantiated accusations, as well as demagogic attacks on the character or patriotism of political adversaries”
  
  This was should in NY with the Islamic center debate,
  
  “During the McCarthy era, thousands of Americans were accused of being Communists or communist sympathizers and became the subject of aggressive investigations and questioning before government or private-industry panels, ”
  
  Similar to what the FBI is doing right now against American Muslims again shown in the Islamic Center debate where the right accuse it’s leader of supporting terrorism or terrorism sympathizer, no doubt the hearing will reinforce such.
  
  “There were also more subtle forces encouraging the rise of McCarthyism. It had long been a practice of more conservative politicians to refer to liberal reforms such as child labor laws and women’s suffrage as “Communist” or “Red plots.”"
  
  Like I said many of the same people who prob would have supported McCarthyism than would prob support King’s Panel now.
  
  As for the army, there has been calls from the Conservative right to investigate or do additional screen for Muslim soldiers solely being Muslims
  
  Why We Should Screen Muslim Soldiers
  
  http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2009/11/06/geraldo-rivera-ft-hood-hasan-murder-muslim/
  
  http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-11-27/why-we-should-screen-muslim-soldiers/
  
  To say analogy to McCarthyism is absurd is naive at best.
- Rob (in NY)
  
  Michael, I am not defending Peter King’s 2004 comments. He should either provide specific evidence to support his claim or retract this statement. These hearings are not about Peter King to me. It is about Congress trying to better understand the root causes of radicalization within the Muslim community and what can be done through both US policy and private religious groups to counter these efforts. The Homeland Security commission has a large say regarding how limited resources will be allocated. It is probably a good idea that they understand some of the root causes and educate the American public regarding these issues. If this descends into a political witchhunt, I will be among those denouncing this committee. However, there are legitimate reasons for holding these hearings. Here are some questions I would ask (e.g. the softball ones)
  
  Discuss specific efforts leaders are using to fight the distortion of their religion. What do the leaders see as some of the causes of radicalization? What level of confidentiality is maintained between mosque leaders and members? Is there any impediment between these customs and cooperating with authorities?
  
  Witnesses are also free to make reference to King’s 2004 statements, which would force King to address these comments.
  - Michael
    
    Rob,
    
    Yet you missed or omitted that King is tainted, King also supported terrorist if it fitted his ideology (IRA). Normally in the court of law a Judge would recluse himself.
    
    ”
    Witnesses are also free to make reference to King’s 2004 statements, which would force King to address these comments. ”
    
    That could be the case if the witnesses were independent of King or his views but there not and it’s again naive to believe they would do so. You could be right and those witnesses are independent but it’s truly doubtful if Asra Nomani is the standard of his witnesses.
    
    But again you didn’t answer my question?
    
    When was the last time congress was truthful and focused solely on facts and stats without distortion, half truths or lies?
    
    Nearly everything David Schanzer said was counter to what statement King made and is making.
    
    One should focus on King cause he clearly displayed a bad judgment lapse in his 2004 statement and his support for the IRA (terrorist to the brits)
    
    BTW, Peter King cited Janet N on the rise of radical and extremist in america but left out the part that most of it is coming from non-Muslims. Once again by omitting such show Kings lack of integrity or truthfulness.

Yar

Fifteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

Is Thursday’s hearing targeting this group based on their faith or is it their race and national origin that merits targeting?

Today is Ash Wednesday, many Christians will have the symbol of the cross marked on their foreheads. Does this religious expression scare you? Is it any different than for a group of women to wear veils?
I question the motives of individuals who are holding the hearing.
I don’t fear a community of people dedicated to God and that pray five times a day.

What I fear, is the radicalization of American politics.
Steve King or,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_King

Frank Wolf seems like one of those to fear.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Wolf

Read the Bio on each and decide for yourself if this is a McCarthy style witch hunt. I fear that is exactly what it is.
When will we have hearings on the radicalization of America by the Republican right?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3d/Crossofashes.jpg

Anonymous

If the religion splits all people of the earth into two groups, Muslims and Infidels and the top religious book asks its followers to kill all infidels that they can’t convert, this is not a religious issue, it is a life & Death Issue?

Also noting that it is known that if two passages of the Koran are in conflict, the latter is deemed to be the correct one to follow. This isn’t bad unless you have read the book and notice that the book goes from peaceful religious to militantly homicidal.
- Cory
  
  Like an eye for an eye or killing someone who works on Sunday?
  - Geri
    
    That’s the old testament – not the new with the teachings of Christ – get your facts before you mouth off.
    - Cory
      
      Christians disregard the old testament? How about the crusades or Catholic/Protestant violence in Ireland? How about concerns that if JFK were elected that the Pope would be president by proxy? Any of that old testament, Geri?
    - Jim in Omaha
      
      So God didn’t create the universe? I didn’t realize Christians had come around to my way of thinking. Now that is truly “good news”.
    - millard_fillmore
      
      No, God didn’t create the universe, but Mother Nature is very angry at us humans, and punishing us via global warming .
- Yar
  
  Religion splits people into many groups. I live in a town with many flavors of Baptist. Some more radical than others. Our County Judge put the ten Commandants on the Court House Wall. I know the experience of living in a theocracy. I have seen misuse of the bible. My fear is not religion, it is the politicization of faith. I fear when a community that tells me to behave the way it believes.
  What group is most active in doing that in America?
  I contend it is the Republican pro-life, anti-regulatory free market, no tax, corporate apologists. If it is us against them, I suspect you and me will see each other as them.
  Does a town full of churches mean the people love God, or that they hate each other? What is the most Segregated Hour of the week? Sunday Morning?
  I don’t know enough to quote the Koran, but I have seen a loving and peaceful people worship in my town. I will work to protect their right to do so.
  - Anonymous
    
    No one that I know of is trying to stop any peaceful religion from practicing their right to worship.
    
    You should also note that the freedom of religion is not a freedom from religion. If anything there are many socialist progressives in the US society that are attempting to push all forms of religion out of society because they distort our countries history and laws to make it freedom from religion.
    
    All peace full religions are good for society.
- Pudj
  
  The Old Testement required choosen tribes/men who were wronged to decimate the opposing tribe, after taking their women for their slave-wives of course.
  It also told believers to kill anyone who worshipped non-Isrealite idols. Sounds very similar.
  So, if you’re going to pick apart holy books, pick them all, not just some.
  - millard_fillmore
    
    Well, how many Christians or Jews today are using the Old Testament to justify their violent acts against other tribes and women? Why are you advocating for “two wrongs make a right”?
    
    Maybe you do, but I do not come from the Christian faith, so I don’t care for what happened 100s of years ago under Old Testament. But I do care for what happens today and which religion and its books justify violence.
Peter

Yar, the key phrase is “prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” and that is exactly what is being challenged by these hearings. These hearings are a breach of the constitution, and should be immediately disbanded, and King should be officially reprimanded by the US Congress.

Cory

As the right consolidates it’s power in this country, many elements of society will suddenly become “radicalized”.

Tom

Creeping Shariah

What inevitably happens when immigrants are accommodated rather than assimilated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTb2L-LwRWA&feature=player_embedded

Peter from Wellesley

I am sorry, but my grandfather grew up in a German-speaking town in Indiana. He, and the people in his town, never made any trouble for the U.S.

Bob

Does Tina Brown of the daily beast pay money for all of the advertising hidden as NPR news? She should. Who cares about her biased ways or the newly biased NewsWeek magazine

Cally

Dictionary.com offers this about the word OPPRESSION: “the exercise of authority or power in a burdensome, cruel, or unjust manner.” I think oppression is one reason why people become radicalized, in general. As Americans, we do not understand oppression as anything more than a definition to a word. In many places in this world, people understand oppression through experience. Our government has supported / does support oppressive regimes for its own (our) purposes.

It is easy to just say Islam is a religion of radicals and crazies. It is easy to segregate Muslims from the rest of “us.” The difficulty comes when we decide to look at conditions in the rest of the world, and understand our part in it. I am not pointing fingers. I’m not saying that the West is solely responsible for radicalization, but there is a part that the West has played. I am stating that if one cares to examine things closely, one may understand how things happen.

Go ahead with the hearings. Decide to ramp up surveillance at mosques and Islamic centers. Tap more phones. Create more fear and suspicion among all people. Internment would be too ugly, but technology is a wonderful thing. Let’s put RFID tags into all Muslims so that we know where they are at all times. Why not prevent Muslims from entering the United States? We could deport thousands back to their countries of origin. Purge. Play the Shariah law card. By all means, do not try to understand the origins of terrorism beyond “s/he is Muslim.”

I see a lot of things I dislike in the mainstream practice of Islam, but I am not willing to throw the whole religion out, nor am I interested in branding all Muslims as radicals.

millard_fillmore

How exactly has West played a part in Islamic terrorism? Are you suggesting that Quran and other Islamic religious books which are used to justify violence were secretly written by Western authors and planted among the Arabs?

And Islamic violence has existed much before West started playing a part – please read your history. Your argument is untenable.

Chris B

It really is unbelievable that in the 21st century there remains so much hostility between so many people based solely on their bizarre beliefs about what might happen to them after they die.

So much for the development of Mankind. . .

Dan

Considering that the majority of serial killers in this country have been white males with glasses, I hereby call for Congress to convene hearings considering the dangers presented by all white males with glasses—myself included.

You can’t deny there have been serial killers who were white men with glasses! When will they strike again? Where will their virulent ideology stop?

I fear we’ve already lost our country and that the enemy is already here…

-dan
Boston, MA

Cory

Have you ever wondered if this is what Osama Bin Laden had in mind all along? Bankrupt us financially and morally?
- K. Mohamed
  
  OBL is probably in a cave somewhere with huge “Mission Accomplished” banner behind him.
  - Grady Lee Howard
    
    When OBL was a teenager he was a pool boy at Walker’s Point in Maine with Manuel Noreiga.
- Dan
  
  I doubt bin Laden’s vision was this specific, and the only real request he’s made of America has been to withdraw our troops from the Arabian Peninsula. But by definition, everyone who resorts to terrorism is attempting to affect changes he cannot achieve through traditional political and military means—so, sorta.
  
  -dan
  Boston, MA
- Peter
  
  Osama Bin Laden has a right to advocate for his viewpoint. He has never been tried conclusively for any of the crimes he is accused of, so we must apply the old American adage of juris prudence, “innocent until proven guilty.”
Zeno

Well either that or financial reform, or the wars, or health care, or anything that is actually a threat to the nation…. But I’m not a millionaire congressman.

After this they will hold hearings on the number of dimples on golf balls.
Cory

Whew! (I’m a white male, but don’t wear glasses!)
millard_fillmore

If you can prove a causative link between “being a white male with glasses” and “serial killing,” then your argument has legs. Otherwise, it is just an apology for a very illiberal and misogynist religion.

If so many of you leftist-liberals actually find value in Osama Bin Laden’s argument, and assert that America has done so much evil that events like 9/11 are justified/deserved, what is stopping you or other non-Muslims from indulging in some violence like Faisal Shahzad? Why is it that only Muslims seem to take that final step of attempting to blow up buildings and kill people? Is it lack of courage, or lack of conviction in the lefty-liberal beliefs? Or is it lack of being an adherent of Religion of Peace?

BHA in Vermont

To classify the ‘generic’ Muslim as a potential terrorist simply because there are terrorists who are Muslim is akin to classifying the ‘generic’ Christian as a potential terrorist because Timothy McVeigh was a Christian.

Not every Spanish Basque is an ETA terrorist.
Not every Irish Catholic or Protestant is a potential terrorist.
etc, etc, etc

Certainly everyone in contact with someone who may be radicalized, whether it be Muslim or skinhead or Nazi, etc should be aware of the possibility. No different than paying attention to what your teens are doing to perhaps divert them from tripping down the path of drug and alcohol use.

Jollyjones

No? really? Wow what a blinding insight. I bet nobody ever thought of that before.

Dee

I am far more worried by the growing number of American-based hate groups who are just as radicalized as Timothy McVeigh was. The blue-eyed, blond-haired Christian hate monger can do just as much damage and far more in terms of numbers.

Sean

The problem is that some blue-eyed, blond-haired Christians who are our ELECTED OFFICIALS do not understand the extent to which they are promoting an ideology very closely linked to the Timothy McVeighs, etc. (maybe they are fully aware of their intentions…) Don’t forget David Koresh and the Branch Davidians- I would contend that Limbaugh and Beck are just facy, dressed-up versions of these paranoid social outcasts. So, our job is to keep up our public objections to their fear-mongering and hate. We need to consistently and coherently call them out on their falsehoods like many reasonable people in the press are doing (but not enough).
- millard_fillmore
  
  You forgot to include Ted Kaczynski in your above list.

Philonous

The danger is not one particular religion, but the fundamentalist branches of any religion. Those who take the position that we are right and anyone else is wrong aren’t far from being willing to kill dissenters. We do have to remember that fundamentalism isn’t exclusive to Islam. There are Jewish and Christian fundamentalists who are just as dangerous.

Greg Camp
Springdale, AR
http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/

Jdowski

…yes the the Jewish & Christian fudamentalists aren’t strapping on suicide vests and walking into crowded markets or flying airplanes into buildings….

..and for the record, I don’t have a high opinion of any of the world’s organized religions…but Islam seems especially intolerant and violent, even amongst it’s own practitioners..
- GodsLove
  
  Jews and Christians did the equivalent of these acts in the good old days when the majority of them took their good books literally. Like in the dark ages — which thanks to religions we have never really evolved out of on an emotional level.
  - Jdowski
    
    So you’re comparing the dark ages with what’s happening now ? Or are you saying that Islam has not progressed from the dark ages ? Either way neither argument justifies the actions of the terrorists who all have the commonality of acting based soley on their religious beliefs
    - Guest23
      
      You must have a major reading comprehension problem because the comment you commented on was not a justification at all, and if anything is in direct opposition to that which you presumed.
    - Guest23
      
      Msr. Calvin would have you slowly roasted for you apostate statements.
- Jas
  
  Short memory…does anyone remember what happened in the federal building in Oklahoma in 1995 and that McVeigh was part of the Christian Identity movement? Granted it wasn’t a suicide belt, but it was a heck of a lot more destructive – but like 911, he was motivated by hate and revenge.
  - Jdowski
    
    While I am no defender of any organized religion Timothy McVeigh did not act based soley on his Christian ideaology……and please, oh please, give me example other than McVeigh ????
  - millard_fillmore
    
    Did Timothy McVeigh act in the name of his religion? If not, then your argument is baseless. What is pathetic is your attempt to try and equate other religions to Islam – please stop being an apologist for a supremacist and intolerant ideology.

Inactionmanreborn

This is a classic example of shooting oneself in the foot. The most likely way for the authorities to find out about terrorist plots by radical Muslims is from patriotic Muslim Americans who hear loose talk in the neighborhood.

Those who would demonize all Muslims because of the acts of a few extremists will alienate the greater Muslim community and endanger an important source of intelligence to prevent future terrorist attacks.

I am sure Osama Bin Laden is cheering Peter King on from his hiding place.

Zeno

This is the focus on job creation and the economy we were promised after giving tax breaks to the top ten percent.

Congressional ADD?

Philonous

Didn’t we always know that life is more complex that that?

Peter

One of your guests is demonizing freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of expression. She sounds very American. She’s entitled to her opinion, but a world with only her set of beliefs would not be satisfactory in my opinion.

Christian

Perception is important, and this sort of hearing becomes theater. I hope other members of the committee call one or two of the 15,000 Muslims serving in the U.S. military to testify. And they should also call regular hardworking Americans, who happen to be Muslim, to testify.

YourMom

Religion is nonsense that has caused the human race endless trouble. Why is it that the jews, christians, and muslims portray god as a bronze age tyrant? Could it be because the idiots who had a psychotic episode and decide it was a cosmic revelation were subjects of bronze age tyrants? If these people ever had a personal authentic experience of a higher dimension they would only be able to laugh at the lies they have been instilled with (usually in childhood when they had no possibility of distinguishing between fantasy and reality {see santa clause})

Philonous

Religion provides meaning to many people, and as long as it’s recognized for what it is–a narrative understanding of reality and not a historical or scientific understanding–there’s nothing wrong with that.

Greg Camp
Springdale, AR
http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/
- Anonymous
  
  Few of its followers recognize that though.
- PearlJacket
  
  Heroin provides meaning to many peoples lives too
- PearlJacket
  
  Your statement would be true if one can ignore the entirely of human history. There is everything “wrong with it” and it has very little relationship to reality at all let alone being some valuable commentary on anything real. Grow-up and stop being an apologist for a malignant and stupid human propensity to seek refuge from mortality in fantasy.

Sfheneghan

“If civilians are killed in an attack on a military installation, it is certainly regrettable, but I will not morally blame the I.R.A. for it.”

The man heading these hearing/do & pony show uttered those words in 1982 during his heyday as a supporter of the Irish Republican Army (see http://tinyurl.com/6jdvsxj ).

Couldn’t a Muslim American say something similar after he or she attacked military installation here in the U.S., driven to such an act after reading for the past 10 years of the hundred thousand innocent men women and children in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan killed in the conflicts initiated by the U.S. or more recently about the nine Afghan boys who were torn apart by American helicopter gunships (see
http://tinyurl.com/6jskdjb ).

There were a boatload of Irish Americans who were radicalized by the tactics of the British Army and loyalist terrorists during the ‘Troubles’ in
Northern Ireland. I know, I lived in one of those communities; they were attending NORAID fund raisers like first communion parties.

Maybe if he is honest during these hearings, King can lend us some of his expertise on how an American can be radicalized to support terrorists.

Rory

The IRA are not comparable to radical Islam. Mass murder of civilians was not a tactic of theirs, nor one they or their supporters morally approved of. They weren’t religious fanatics with visions of 72 virgins.

I should know, I grew up in Derry. I knew people associated with the IRA. A schoolmate was killed while on active service as the and more then a few others did long prison terms. Were they terrorists? Maybe…but the point is they weren’t dreaming of blowing up nuclear plants or poisoning the water supply.

As for these hearings…I think they are probably counterproductive. The security forces have done a good job preventing attacks and they know which mosques to watch out for. This is political grnadstanding.
- Sfheneghan
  
  One person’s terrorist is another person’s freedom fighter. It would be as logical for a muslim american with a Pashtun background to support insurgents in Afghanistan after constantly hearing of US/NATO’s killings of civilians, as an Irish American like King supporting the IRA in its claim to protect the RC communities in NI and its fight to unite the six counties with the republic.
  
  While not on the scale of the 9.11 attacks, the IRA attempted mass casualty attacks, including attacks in London in the lat 70s early 80s at Earl’s Court, Hyde Park and Regent’s Park and Harrods (during xmas season no less), the killing Mountbatten and several others (including two teenages) off the waters of Sligo and the attempted assassination of PM Thatcher and her cabinet in the Brighton hotel bombing in ’84.
  
  And let’s not forget that, like the Taliban that currently gets $ from its oversight of the poppies in Afgahnistan, the IRA had for years robbed banks, operated protection rackets and dealt in smuggled cigarettes and alcohol between the border, not unlike organized criminal organizations.
  
  That’s my point. King’s supported the republican movement, warts and all. He comes to these hearings with ‘unclean hands’. I’d give him credit if he’d acknowledge this. Also, the fact of the matter is that the republican movement failed in that Northern Ireland is still part of the UK. Shit, King’s buddy (and pedophile protector) Gerry Adams even abandoned NI and is now a TD in the Dail!
millard_fillmore

How far in the past do you want to reach? For example, should it be OK for a non-Muslim (whose ancestors were killed by Muslims) to go on a rampage just because historically, Islam spread by using the bloody sword and it treats non-Muslims/infidels like sh!t? If you do want to apply the principle of karma, keep in mind that Islam has a lot to answer for, historically as well as in the present – much more than any number of people killed in American wars. You can’t selectively apply karma just to soothe your guilt.
millard_fillmore

BTW, Irish terrorism was local whereas Islamic terrorism is global. Perhaps you’ll try and wrap your head around that fact and its significance once you pull it out of your arse.
- Sfheneghan
  
  You speak from ignorance. The IRA attacked targets in London and the UK as well as in NI and the republic. It got arms, especially its explosives of choice Semetex, from overseas including from their pal Col. Gaddafi of Libya. In an 1988 report, a Reagan era U.S. State Department report on global terrorism called the IRA “a deadly terrorist group unconcerned about innocent bystanders…”
  
  In addition, fund raising and support, such as what terrorist sympathizer King is ‘investigating’ in these hearings, primarily came from the U.S. through the Irish American community.
  
  I hope someone at this dog & pony show make mention of King’s past, including the following comments he made as Grand Marshall of the NYC St. Patrick’s day ceremony: “As we march up the avenue and share all the joy, let us never forget the men and women who are suffering and, **most of all**, the men and women who **are fighting**.”
  
  It is also worth noting that since the invasion of Iraq, which was very unpopular in the Republic of Ireland, King the Begrudger has not returned to Ireland since 9.11, apparently because of hurt feelings.

Izaz Haque

Read about Peter King’s perspective on the IRA in today’s NYTimes. Tell me this is not about politics connected to the 2012 elections and the President’s middle name!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/09/us/politics/09king.html?hp

Tcavastani

I hate to rely on Jon Stewart here, bit for better of for worse he’s a source of some of our sharpest political criticisms.

He wondered the other night why “cooperation” in the Muslim community is the lodestone for Rep. King. It’s not enough that they’re largely law-abiding? They have to police themselves as well? What other communities have we ever expected that of? Were the Italians complicit in allowing the Mafia to operate? Were Irishmen complicit in the IRA’s campaign. Oh …..

millard_fillmore

So what are you trying to say here? That just as Irishmen were complicit in IRA’s campaign, similarly, Muslims too are complicit in Islamic terrorism?

And that because Irishmen were complicit, we should let Muslims do the same? Kind of two wrongs making a right?

Barb

“First they came for the Communists, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me.” – Martin Niemoller

Rory

Who is coming for Muslims? It’s a hearing for christ’s sake.

Get a grip.
millard_fillmore

This sentiment is very much applicable to what happens to non-Muslims in Muslim-majority countries. Unfortunately, the bleeding hearts are too busy painting the entire Muslim world into victims of evil America to care for the inhumane treatment of non-Muslims.

Scott Lewins

Yes, radicalization is a growing problem in America; just look at the work that the Southern Poverty Law Center has been doing tracking hate groups on the rise. Where are the hearing in congress on this radicalization?

Philonous

We do have the concern of groups who come to America for jobs, but not for our values. I have no objection to anyone who wants to come here to practice the values of individual liberty. Those who cannot accept that are a different matter, and that isn’t limited to one group.

Greg Camp
Springdale, AR
http://gregorycamp.wordpress.com/

PearlJacket

Any red herring that will divert the attention of the public from the financial crimes against America by the power-possessing elite and their political puppets and sycophants will do. Argue about other people’s fantasies while the dream of our forefathers circles the drain.

Bob Reardon

What, is McCarthyism back? All Americans should be embarrassed about these hearings and the fundamental repudiation of our founding American values. It give great PR an recruitment tools to the terrorists and alienates us from building the bridges to the Muslim community that WILL have to be a part of any imaginable American future.

Sam, Boston MA

This is absurd. A vast OVERGENERALIZATION of a particular group only propagates further misunderstandings. To even assume the correlation that; if they are muslim, they are more like commit terrorist acts is clearly an unquantifiable assumption. One that needs to be checked, and made public as INCORRECT.

“It’s a fact: Muslim Americans have been involved in terrorist attacks in the United States.

Is that a reason to put the Muslim American community at large on trial?”

Of course not.

It’s also a fact that non-Muslim Americans have been involved in terrorist attacks in the United States (Jared Loughner).

This hearing is clearly an attempt to thematize an enemy.

Anonymous

What’s so wrong about exploring the radical Muslim narrative? Let’s not be simplistic, and reactionary, about the dialogue which a majority of Americans do not understand.

Sam, Boston MA

What’s so wrong about exploring the radical Muslim narrative?

Yes, a communal dialogue is necessary. However, the way one frames the conversation initially, will dictate the way the conversation trends.

If I said, lets start a conversation about Evangelical Extremism and begin this public discourse by stating an unfounded statement (not verified or tested) and proceeded to converse off this non-fact, the dialogue would have already been screwed.

Begin, with an ideological neutral conversation based on what evidence shows, not wild speculation.

So yes dialogue, but those to make public social and cultural statements ought to check their assumptions.
- Anonymous
  
  Sam is leading the witness your honor.

Zeno

I was not aware of this titanic threat of terrorists in 80% of the mosques in America. The media is mostly about the terrorist “libs”, and the “libs” tearing the country apart, or the “libs” and the un-american Kenyan born Muslim president.

The focus of conservative media states daily that liberalism and socialism are the true threats to “their country”. It would seem from what appears in the media that the congress should be seeking a final solution for the threats they have already identified.

Too strong?

LoveThisCountry

Solution is so simple….
just investigate the Collapse of WTC #7 and then the issue will go away

Anonymous

yeah right, you ever work in New York? You ever work with an explosives team on a building, or in a unionized setting?
I don’t think so.

Madeleinekando

The terms ‘Muslim community’ is so confusing that all discussion that uses this term should make a step back before it is being used. Are we talking about a ‘people’ or a ‘religion’? If we are talking about a group of citizens, we should really be talking about ‘Arabs’. Aren’t some Arabs non-Muslim? ‘Muslim’ is a religious term, the same as ‘Christian’. ‘Arab’ is a race, the same as ‘Anglo-Saxon’. The Japanese were interned because they were of a specific race, not because of their religion. Discussions of this sort perpetrates confusion and mis-information without clarifying these words.

Philonous

It’s a term that identifies a cultural group. Culture is real, while race has little meaning. Muslim community is not confusing. Anyone who claims that religion is a member. I don’t support stereotyping members of the group, but I fail to see the difficulty in understanding what the term means.

barry

Christian fundamentalism of the sort catered to by King’s outrageous abuse of his political position is intellectual terrorism every bit as dangerous as that represented by Muslims radicalized to believe their faith is the one and only true faith and under attack from heretics. I personally feel far more threatened by the religious fanatics now in political power in this country than I am Muslims.

Barry

Steve L

The problem is that the American public is being fooled by charlatans. They only serve to take focus away from the REAL issues and problems using scare tactics.

I have suggested before that Christians who kill do not cause an inquisition into Christian beliefs and, therefore, a question to every person who professes to be Christian.

I am FAR more fearful of the calculations of Wall Street and Congress than of wackos who lean on religious fanaticism for justification of hatred.

Steve in Nashville

Muslimah, Boston Massachusetts

Unfortunately Asra is using a small sample and trying to use inductive reasoning to apply to the entire population of Muslims living in America. We have to look at the pros and cons of any kind of political speech. The hate crimes against Muslims are growing, people of other faiths such as the two Sikh men who were brutally attacked recently being mistaken for Muslims, are a sign that Rep. King’s move will only increase hate-crimes and suspicion against peaceful citizens. As a Muslim who has had to suffer personally from hate-crimes, including being physically threatened, herself I can only shudder at the thought of times to come. Poll a handful of Muslim women wearing scarves across America and you will find out just how many of them have had experienced this growing hate.

Anonymous

While no one should be harassed for wearing one, wearing a headscarf is a result of religions’ hatred of women. It isn’t a free choice for most people subjected to that.

Peter

By having these hearings, Peter King is opposing the constitution, which, regarding religion, protects against “prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” Free exercise means exercise without intimidation. These hearings are intimidation. They are unconstitutional. Peter King should be censured by the Congress for conducting such hearings. There is no credible threat involved. This is a religious war, and we are being drawn into the middle of it.

Caff1

I would expect the law enforcement community to be keeping an eye on radical Muslims in this country for the purpose of preventing harm to our communities. But the narrow focus of this Congressional hearing is likely to cause harm in the form of prejudice. Many Americans are already ill informed about – and prejudiced against – Islam and prejudice is never a good thing. A hearing on radicalization from all corners (anit-immigration groups, neo-Nazis, even the radical fringes of pro-life groups) would be more helpful.

Anonymous

My discussions with Commander Aboul-Enein, the author author of “Militant Islamist Ideology: Understanding the Global Threat,” published by Naval Institute Press, Annapolis, Maryland, would suggest to me this narrative is extremely complex.

Philonous

Would you care to go into detail?
- Anonymous
  
  small war journal:
  http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/2011/01/discussions-on-the-complexity/
  - Philonous
    
    Perhaps you could summarize for the purpose of this discussion.
    - Anonymous
      
      Thank you Stephen for your comments. The whole purpose of my essay is to enlighten and to stimulate debate, in order to better defend and advance America’s interests. I learn much from the exchange of ideas on this subject. While I disagree with Betty’s views, it pleases me that it stimulated her towards articulating her position. If my work left you hungry for more, and you wish to delve deeper into the Militant Islamist narrative and nuances of Islamic interpretations, you may wish to check out my book “Militant Islamist Ideology,” published by Naval Institute Press. It is the product of several years of discussing, lecturing, and taking questions from deploying units.
      
      Commander Youssef Aboul-Enein

Sherry from Pittsburgh

Two comments: 1) Your previous speaker stated that his research shows that an average of 15 American Muslims attempt acts of terrorism per year, but he did not place that in perspective. What percentage of Muslims is this? 80%?.02%. How does this stack up with other religious groups percentage wise?

Second: Exactly when did we Americans stop believing our freedoms, liberties, and civil rights are no longer worth dying for? Year by year we give up more in the name of security. A Federal Maximum Security Prison is supposed to be the most secure place in the country. Read the incident reports–they are not safe, and neither are we as increasingly abandon our values in the name of security.

Robin

I’m no Islamic scholar by any means, but my impression is this:
One, there is no “head” of any major Islamic faction we can address. There is nothing, or no one, like the Catholic Pope, or the Anglican Archbishop of Canterbury, or the head of the Lutheran Missouri Sinod. So there’s no way to have a dialog between, say, the U.S. government and any significant segment of Islam.
And, two, the Koran itself has little or no context or chronology, that it’s organized around topics, or themes. So even though the Christian Bible is open to a lot of interpretation, the Koran is extremely vulnerable to it.

If I’m understanding these points correctly, these two things have a relationship, and both are very, very challenging for non-Muslims to understand or to address.

Paige

As a Sufi in American Society I feel conflict about this. Where are the hearings for radicalized Christians after the killing of Doctors and the bombing of abortion clinics? We can’t pick and choose what we deem to be dangerous for our society based on political views. Where do we draw the line and discern discrimination?

Beverly

I couldn’t agree more. That self-righteous hate group, (AKA “Christians”), is FAR more dangerous; a lynch mob looking for a cause.

How will that idiotic, bigoted so-called trial be funded? They’d better not be wasting taxpayers’ money on it, or there will be hell to pay.

Can they really get away with such a farce? Religious persecution is forbidden by our constitution.
- Sam Wilson
  
  Hi Beverly,
  
  Christians in general are not “self-righteous hate group” in fact they are one of the most tolerable groups.
  
  Having said that, let me also make it clear that, I am a Christian, and didnt grow up in the USA, and I also see that here in the USA, there is too much political involvement in the name of Christianity.
  
  Some how to me it doesnt look like Christianity at all…
Rory

How many abortion doctors have been killed in the past 20 years?

That is a different than a segment of people planning mass murder on a large scale.

And if you think DHS and FBI aren’t monitoring other radicals, you are wrong. But the biggest and most widespread threat to this country and it’s citizens comes from “radical” islam

Charlie Mc

The search for the best “idea” of God, and the best “place” to find God, and the best “religion” in which to find God has served its purpose in all religions throughout the centuries. From this grew the IDEA that God favored certain peoples over others and evolved into so called “holy” wars. I suggest a careful reading of Karen Armstrong’s “History of God”, to help us gain some perspective on this disastrous theologizing.
Astrophysics currently describes an evolution of the cosmos from a “singularity”, a point of no dimensions, a condition where space and time did not yet exist and everywhere was no where; i.e., creation ex nihilo requires an inconceivability of the “cause” [God is NO THING].
That point still exists and is at the center of each and every one of us, Christian, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, and also agnostics and atheists. When will our world be helped by its teachers to grow up and
realize that faith is coincidental. The very earliest words on Jesus’ lips as related in the Gospel of Mark were: “”Jesus went to Galilee and preached the good news from God, saying,
‘The present moment is the right time,the Kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU Change the way you think about reality;

Anonymous

Anachronistic? Women and Christians were targeted in Egypt this week. Two killed in Pakistan for advocating repeal of blasphemy laws.

Wes

What are being called Terrorist Groups are really a sub-category of a wider phenomenon called Hate Groups. These groups are studied by the Anti-Defamation League, the Southern Poverty Law Center, and the FBI. Whether these people identify as Christian or Atheist or Islamic, they are all terrorists. Think of the KKK as a terrorist group.

Wes, Cambridge, Massachusetts

Nick Y

A couple of questions…

What is the point of the hearings, i.e. as Conservatives say – what is the return on the money, time, and effort being spent for the hearings?

If the focus is terrorism, why point it at just the Muslims? To my mind that is scary and bigoted. What about our militias, anti-abortionist murderers, eco-terrorists, animal rights terrorists, etc.

In terms of response within the Muslim community, I believe that many more potential terrorists have been turned in by the Muslim community then any of the above.

Anonymous

Why be ignorant? Let’s discuss the facts about this complex narrative.

Lilya

Why is OnPoint still refusing to cover what in the world has happened to World Trade Center #7 on 9/11. Everything about the Muslim Community and the fear and the discrimination, etc. by far mostly affected by the events of Sept 11.

Tom Ashbrook: You asked (at Boston Book Fair) for the name/contact info of the Best Architect for a program. We already did. Many times. Please invite Architect Richard Gage and we will go away (maybe)

Anonymous

I would suggest any covert operation on building 7 is a whole bunch of malarkey not based in reality
Philonous

No, foolishness never goes away. There was a 9/11 conspiracy, and it was led and operated by al-Qaeda. Jews, the U.S. government, and aliens had nothing to do with the attacks.
- Anonymous
  
  Are you sure the “greys” didn’t set this up? Because I’m positive Al Qeada is too stupid to pull this off by themselves without the help of alien forces from planet Zarkon.
  - Philonous
    
    Lilya shows up on many discussion groups, whether relevant or not, to make the same claims. Troll. . .
    - Anonymous
      
      I like UFO stories and Hollywood gossip too.
      Let the Troll speak.

Bob Reardon

Why correlate a few crazy extremist actors with Islam? Is that analogy any more true that crediting violence against gays by a few extremists who identify themselves as Christians, with the “Christian Community” at large?

Anonymous

If it weren’t for the Christian community at large, gays would have equal rights. Centuries of Christian bigotry is behind most of the anti gay violence. Obviously not all Christians have these beliefs but don’t dismiss it as a few extremists.

Rex Henry, Washington, DC

Questioning and finger pointing will breed contempt, just like Guantanamo is fueling the prisoners’ contempt & hatred toward their captors

rbf

there is a point that is completely missed that is the foundation of this discussion. islam has no tradition of church and state being separate. it is a politically oriented religion not different in many ways from the russian church or the european medieval church that are part and parcel of the government. islam takes this one step further, e.g. the secular leader is not supported by the church, there is no “secular” leader in the first place.

the reason westerners react to islam the way do in this context has more to do with their perception that the religion is intrinsically political in nature. this is an anathema to western democracy.

even if 70% of muslims or 95% of muslims are moderate and not in favor of the political elements of islam the 5% that still adhere to its historic implementation is dangerous.

a muslim that is moderate and believes in civil society and separation of church and state has simply not faced the fact that they should essentially create a new version of islam that does not have this non-civil aspect to it. as long as the major sects of islam adhere to a version of the religion that does not clearly separate the religious and political aspects of the teaching this inherent friction will continue.

ThresherK

“Peter King wants to learn” at the hearings?

Our host should not be so naive. There’s an old saw about being a lawyer in a court case, “Don’t ask a question you don’t already know the answer to”, which I have always applied to hearings in Congress. It hasn’t failed me yet.

Anonymous

what’s so wrong about learning from an extremely complex narrative,
that is: the radical Muslim narrative

Jasonlyons

Islam is the only Abrahamic faith that has hate towards another faith group by name in their Holy writings. It specifically calls for it’s believers to beginthe conversation with a bent towards not trusting Jews and Christians. That’s why I have a problem with Islam. All that said my Christian faith teaches me to love those that hate me and are my enemies. So peace be to all who call upon the one God.

Anonymous

ahh man, that’s just one opinion, way too simplistic for my taste
Cory

So how does your belief relate to this topic?
MockLife

And Islam is therefore the only belief system that has ever said something negative about another belief? No one seems to remember the history of the Catholic church these days. Or the Christians. Or any other church you care to name.
Religion is the bain of society in so many ways. Why don’t we ban that? Defund the whole thing! Make religion illegal.
Come on! Blaming Islam for our troubles isn’t the answer. Blaming those folks that actually commit the heinous crimes is more appropriate. Don’t you think?
- ThePope
  
  Just tax their income and property, if they function in anyway that is political in any form.
Carrie

Sorry, but I completely disagree with your premise. That is NOT how Islam reads. Any Muslim who bothers to read and THINK knows that. There actually is a verse that reads “There is no compulsion in religion.”
- Jessie
  
  Actually, a 60% of the references to non-Muslims are negative or even promoting violence against them.
- millard_fillmore
  
  There actually is a verse that reads “There is no compulsion in religion.”
  
  Be careful of using the (il)logic of “ascribing authority to so-called sacred texts” – it just might come back to bite you in the butt, especially with a book like Quran. You might want to actually read that book yourself – there are free English translations available online – and decide for yourself.
  
  Of course, once you do that (read the book), your next argument will be either that all the hateful words in Quran are errors of translation (that is, one needs to learn Arabic and read the Quran in Arabic), or that the hateful words asking the followers to kill infidels have been abrogated by “new and later” commandments.
  
  Also, if there’s no compulsion in religion, why are Ahmaddiyas persecuted and killed by other Muslims?
  
  Furthermore, just because the Bible has ’1 Corinthians 13′ doesn’t mean that passages from Leviticus 18 & 20 don’t exist or are irrelevant to the followers.
- millard_fillmore
  
  Also, read some books by VS Naipaul – he traveled in many Islamic countries, interacted with Muslims and wrote about his experiences. It just might open your eyes as to what an average Muslim believes in.
Zeno

Deuteronomy 17
If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
- MockLife
  
  Is that from the bible or the koran? Sorry, I haven’t read, nor will, either. It would seem to me that that is saying the same thing that the extremists of all religions say. Kill those that don’t believe as you do. There isn’t a good way to say this, but if each belief killed those that didn’t follow it, wouldn’t the world population be greatly reduced? Does anyone have the right to kill another just because of their religion? If you say yes, then you are walking the same path as those that suicide and kill innocent people.
  - Zeno
    
    That is from the Holy Bible. The post is to refute the main posting. If they just killed each other and destroyed their own stuff , then I don’t think anyone would care. But their actions wreak havoc on all of the innocent bystanders as well.
    
    I think even among the bulk of the faithful of these religions, there is a quiet outrage at the extremists that use their faith as a platform for hatred and murder. But hey that’s the will of God as they see it.
    - Jessie
      
      That’s from the OLD Testament. Take that up with Jewish people before bashing Christians.
- Cory
  
  No fair, Zeno! You aren’t supposed to actually READ the bible!!!
Beverly

Please give all examples, so we may make up our own minds. Thanks.

Beverly

Caller Jay, from Iowa, doesn’t seem to know much about what’s happening all around him, EVEN IN IOWA now.

Right-wing radical/religious extremists, are very primitive . . . Medievil, in fact. They are hateful, bigoted bullies who think they are better than everyone else, & try to force their bizarre views & beliefs on everyone else.

They want to be the only dangerous extremists, & are afraid of any potential competition, either real or imagined.

MockLife

What a great point you have made Beverly! Can you go one step further and ask yourself who it is, exactly, that is calling for this stuff?
- Beverly
  
  Yes. I haven’t been able to go beyond the Koch crooks, who are planning to take over the world.
  
  If there is someone else, please let us know. Forewarned is forearmed.
  
  Thank you.
- Beverly
  
  Yes. I haven’t been able to go beyond the Koch crooks, who are planning to take over the world.
  
  If there is someone else, please let us know. Forewarned is forearmed.
  
  Thank you.
Anonymous

Who are the right wing radicals? Right wingers are by definition closer to libertarians and don’t want the government in control of any more of their lives than they have to, and right wingers don’t want to control others unless the others are taking away their rights, money, or other belongings without consent.
- Beverlyp
  
  Okay. Maybe we’ve been misinformed. So tell us what group of idiots these people belong to. Thank you.
  
  Awaiting your reply . . .

MockLife

I am sorry if this offends anyone, but, I have to say that I think the US has finally turned the corner back into the dark ages. No one is allowed to have a religious belief unless it is OK with the establishment. (Read: Conservative Republicans) No one is supposed to educate those that are less fortunate. Conservative Republicans, again. A person isn’t allowed to have his friends as part of the bargaining for the benefits and pay they want to get from the state. Conservative Republicans. Don’t help a nation that isn’t of the approved religious belief. Conservative Republicans. Don’t allow a man who (might) be Muslim to become a President of our nation.
If you look at all of the restrictions that are being pushed by our Federal Representatives, and the state level governments in quite a few states, they are all geared toward reducing the power of the people, the minorities, anyone of a different color or sexual orientation to achieve happiness and equality. Or removing what equality has been enacted.
Hatred, religious righteousness, and power. Is this truly what the United(?) States of America is all about?
By the way, I am white, upper-poor class, male, agnostic, and a Veteran of Operation Iraqi Freedom. I DID defend the freedom of folks that were being oppressed, even though they weren’t Americans. I WILL defend the Rights and Freedoms of the American People!

Let’s stop being jerks and start being the International force of good, not religion/cost benefits.

Jessie

That’s the biggest load of b.s.

The center-left is the establishment, even they don’t deny it.

Rational American

There’s no way our country, led by a foreign-born Muslim socialist/Marxist, trying to put the USA under a one-world government, while actively advancing the homosexual agenda, can succeed in the face of these irrational Mohammedans. I see our only hope as cutting taxes on the wealthiest among us.

Zeno

LOL
Cory

Why is it that anyone who has the word “american” in their name is an absolute nutjob?
marking

har har har

sandorsky

the problem arises with religion “i can not support the idea that your beliefs are diferent from mine because mine are the correct ones”of course all we really know is we r born and we die. Everything in between is what WE make it. lets scrap all religions and just start living with the idea that we begin to treat each other as we would like to be treated, with respect fairness kindness and compasion . If all the money WASTED on religion and war was spent bettering the lives of starving nations wouldnt the world b a happier more pleasant place to live? wouldnt that b more satisfying than fighting and seeing half the worldstave and struggle ?

dave

This seems like blackmail to me. Change your idealogical position or we cut your funding. The truth is not liberal or conservative. Whatever the managements ideological leanings, the stories from NPR are more than just balanced, they are truthful. If that doesn’t mesh with everyone’s politics it doesn’t mean they are wrong. If we had more reporters as committed to finding facts the country would be in a lot better shape. The conservative-in this sense meaning afraid to speak truth to power-editorial leanings in corporate media has caused tremendous pain in this country. See for example Dean Starkman’s polemic “Power Problem” for the Columbia Journalism Review.

Søren

The only ideology at work here is the GOP/Nopublican old hand of fear – Islam and Muslims are the new victims in the American right wing efforts to instill fear in the population at large. We saw it with Communism.

This has all to do with the larger effort of the GOP/Nopublicans and the rich plutocracy continuing to divide-and-conqour the American people. Invent new fears to keep the population’s attention from what is really going on – a class warfare assaulted by the rich on the overall society.

sandorski

i dont know much about the religion other than what i see, that they are being judged on thier own actions, and that there is a small percentage that are radical however all you need are a few ‘rotten eggs’ to spoil the pudding
- Reena Paracha
  
  So should we start radicalizing Christianity or judaism on the basis of a small percentage also? Should we use the likes of Timothy McVeigh, David Koresh, Terry jones, Baruch Goldstein, Yaakov Teitel, or Rabbi Yitzhak Shapiro to determine the existence and/or persecution of their respective faiths and its people?
  - millard_fillmore
    
    Reena, maybe it’s a small percentage, but it’s definitely not small in scope, impact or global reach. So, “small percentage” is irrelevant.
    
    **Violence
    1. Muslims wearing explosives and killing themselves and others is a regular feature in countries like Pakistan and Iraq.
    
    2. Bomb blasts in Bali resulting in killing of many people.
    
    3. Terrorist attack in India – including one at a Jewish center – killed more than 150 people.
    
    4. Faisal Shahzad in USA.
    
    5. Train blast in Spain.
    
    6. Train and bus blasts in London.
    
    7. Failed bomb attack in Glasgow.
    
    **Freedom of Speech
    8. Kurt Westergaard attacked in Denmark.
    
    9. Theo van Gogh killed in Holland.
    
    10. A lecturer’s hand chopped off in India.
    
    11. Death-threat issued to Comedy Central in USA.
    
    12. Death-threat issued to Molly Norris (who organized ‘Draw Mohammad Day’ event) in USA, and she has to change her name and goes into hiding.
    
    13. Farag Foda, a writer, killed in Egypt.
    
    14. Nobel Prize winner and writer Naguib Mahfouz attacked and wounded in Egypt.
    
    **Blasphemy Law, strangely and illogically applied to Non-Muslims
    15. See some of the entries in the above section.
    
    16. Salman Taseer & Shahbaaz Bhatti killed in Pakistan for daring to challenge the unjust blasphemy law. The killer of the former was greeted with widespread praise.
    
    17. Persecution and massacre of Ahmaddiyas in Pakistan & in Indonesia.
    
    Anyway, this is just a partial list off the top of my head – each and every one of them is a verifiable fact. As they say, don’t piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining.
    
    So where do you stand when it comes to freedom of speech? Are you firmly on the side of writers and film-makers and intellectuals like Kurt Westergaard, Theo van Gogh and Salman Rushdie; or will you equivocate and qualify your stance?
    - Reena
      
      You can sit here an cite as many “individual” acts as you want and that’s your right…Freedom of speech and all!! I can cite mass murders of Muslims…. but I am not going to indulge in a pissing match with you. Having said that, I have nothing against freedom of speech, I believe that is we are here speaking our minds. I have a problem with freedom of hateful and agenda-driven speech. Supreme Court justice, Judge Alito put it very appropriately when he said that “the nation’s commitment to free and open debate is not a license for the vicious verbal assault” in the case of the WBB and this is the same statement that could be applied to many other instances of the misuse of the first Amendment. We Muslim-American are not sitting here condoning acts of terrorism, we are speaking up against it, so to put us on trial is also infringing on our rights.
      P.S. I am not sure which stance of mine you are talking about to equivocate and qualify?
    - Jessie
      
      It’s not hateful, it’s the truth. You need to accept that.
      
      Are you Pakistani or Indian? Then you know full well what’s is happening to non-Muslims in Pakistan. They are being raped and murdered constantly by Muslims.
    - Reena
      
      My nationality is of no consequence to this subject…How many American-Muslims do you know that are condoning what is happening? Do not use fringe elements to define an entire religion because there are plenty of those in all religions. What is the truth? That 83% of the mosques are radical, where is the data? That American-Muslims are condoning terrorism, show me. That American-Muslims are essentially radical and harbor terrorists… really? Even the law enforcement agencies disagree with that statement. So truly I will NOT accept this pigeon-holed, radicalized view of us and our religion!
  - Jessie
    
    Timothy McVeigh was an avowed AGNOSTIC not a Christian or Jew and David Koresh was neither Christian, Jew nor Muslim. He made up his own religion.
    
    Terry Jones never committed a terrorist attack and he recently donated a sum of money (about 10k dollars) to a shelter for battered Muslim women.
    
    So you fail.

Mjcarp632

Peter King will do damage and then when the people logically he will go away and live in his fear with the bottle locked away in his house just like joe McCarthy. He is a little man with a big mouth who finally has some power to mess with people the same way Darrel Issa is doing.
They are just filling their time with what they know.This tells you a ton about their constituents who elected them. All full of hate.

Clwestgard

Let’s look at the numbers, people. During the last 20 years the number of people killed by terrorists in the USA have been more often performed by lone, crazy people who are WHITE, born in American or by domestic militia. “Radicalization” of all forms is dangerous.

Duke

Not. even. close.

btw, your skewed world view is showing, and it’s not pretty.
Rory

That is just not true. Over 3,000 died on 9/11 alone.
Jessie

That’s a total LIE you just wrote and is easily refuted by a visit to the DoJ statistics on terrorist attacks.

Even the SLPC won’t agree with you.

You have been exposed as a liar.

Justbarbie8

How about banning Hate Talk Radio! These Hate talkers, Beck, Limbough, etc. are creating domestic terrorists!

Rory

Not a fan of them..but who exactly have they created who committed terror or mass murder?

http://www.facebook.com/irredentism Harry Orenstein

The world needs to understand better what is Islam.

Can anyone truly define “radical” Islam?

I have always agreed with Recep Tayyip Erdoǧan (Kanal D TV’s Arena program Aug., 2007) definition, which is clear and concise:-

“There is no moderate or immoderate Islam. Islam is Islam & that’s it.”

Sean

Really, Harry… If you are Jewish (as I am), wouldn’t you question the wisdom of someone saying the same thing about Judaism (or whatever religion you choose)- that it’s all the same??!!?? To understand a “radical” sect of anything is to understand the difference between civility and incivility, reason and hysteria, law and disorder, etc., and there are extreme differences within all religions, ethnicities, governments, etc. Do you not understand the “radicalization” of a group like the Westboro Baptist Church?? They are out of touch with reality. Oh, that’s another indicator of being “radical”…

Reena Paracha

I am a Muslim and am quite frankly perturbed by Asra Nomani’s portrayal of the workings of a mosque. I happen to belong to four mosques in Louisville, KY and have yet to encounter the “fatwas” and the hateful rhetoric she is talking about. Personally I believe that, if she is going to be an “expert” on what happens at Mosques across America, I would like for her to provide concrete statistics and facts. We as the American-Muslims have done quite a job of policing ourselves and there is plenty of evidence to back this claim. From what I have heard her say in the past and what I am hearing now, I would have to say that she is not representative of the Muslims and a more knowledgeable individual like Sheikh Hamza Yousuf, Eboo Patel, Aisha Gray Henry etc. should be addressing this issue of the Peter King hearing. I am sorry but I would personally prefer not to be profiled!

Anonymous

Obama agrees with Bush, not that either one of them are right.

No one has done more to revive the reputation of Bush-era antiterror policies than the Obama Administration. In its latest policy reversal, yesterday Mr. Obama said the U.S. would resume the military tribunals for Guantanamo terrorists that he unilaterally suspended two years ago, and he may even begin referring new charges to military commissions within days or weeks.

The political left is enraged by what it claims is a betrayal, but we’re glad to see Mr. Obama bowing to security reality and erring on the side of keeping the country safe—with one exception, about which more below.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703386704576186791361222486.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop

John Doe

One of my family members was shot and killed at Fort Hood. Hasan gave warning signs prior to the shootings but they were not taken to heart for fear of prejudice. These hearings are nothing compared to internment camps, communism herrings, or even wichhunts. I was shocked to hear such a narrow view from Tom Ashbrook. It made me ashamed to have donated to NPR this week.

millard_fillmore

Well, if someone had actually taken preventative steps in that case, the leftist-liberals would have screamed bloody murder that he was being singled out and discriminated against because of his religion (of peace). So, it’s a lose-lose situation as far as liberals are concerned. But then again, their views regarding Islam are based on ignorance and political correctness.

Nyakairu

I think it is much more helpful to look for criminals rather than Moslem criminals. Mr. King’s witch hunt only furthers the divide between Moslem citizens and the rest of Americans. There are some people who will wrongly take the hearings as an indictment on Moslems. We don’t hold hearings on Cristianity or Judaism when Christians or Jews commit crimes.

Jessie

How many Christian or Jewish terrorist groups have staged terrorist attacks or been busted plotting attacks in the last 10 years?

Very, very few.

Muslims have been involved in these incidents whether you like it or not.

The precedent was already set years ago when Italian-Americans and Russian Americans had an inquiry due to the presence of the Mafia in their communities. The Mafia recruited from those communities in particularly high numbers.
- Anonymous
  
  Jessie Please read Micheal response to your question . I think you are blinded to fact with your hatred for Muslims. I hoping you will over come your Phobia and live and let live.

Michael

King cited Janet N statement of a increase of radicals in American yet let out a key part of it.

Such increase in radicals and extremist are mostly coming from non-Muslims groups.Neo Nazi, KKK, This omission should tell the pubilc King is in no way a fair broker or is seeking the truth when he can omit such.

Anyways here the report 2010 Southern Poverty Law Center

U.S. Hate Groups Top 1,000

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The number of active hate groups in the United States topped 1,000 for the first time and the antigovernment “Patriot” movement expanded dramatically for the second straight year as the radical right showed continued explosive growth in 2010.

“Several factors fueled the growth: resentment over the changing racial demographics of the country, frustration over the lagging economy, and the mainstreaming of conspiracy theories and other demonizing propaganda aimed at minorities and the government.”

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/news/us-hate-groups-top-1000

What amazing about this is it almost exclusive is coming from the Right-Wing of American society

Jessie

More b.s.

Michael

“Far-right extremists remain highly energized, even as politicians across the country co-opt many of the radical ideas and issues that are important to them,” said Mark Potok, editor of the Intelligence Report. “This success in having their voices heard in the political arena, where they have long occupied the fringe of conservative thought.

Lets see,

Birther movement- (where over 50% of GOP primary voters believe obama was not born in the U.S.) ((http://current.com/news/92997653_half-of-gop-primary-voters-wrongly-say-obama-non-u-s-born-poll.htm))

-Death Panels-
-Oath Keepers-
-Code Pink/Muslim Brotherhood-
-Illegals plan to give the swine flue to Americans
-God hate “fgs”
-Illegals are running around chopping peoples heads off
-Ground Zero Mosque is actually a triupth to radical Islam
-Invading Iraq is Gods will

And many other fringe bs filter threw foxs and company and picked up by the rest of the MSM.

Also little mention in the news,

In an 11-day period this January, a neo-Nazi was arrested as he headed for the Arizona border with a dozen homemade grenades; a terrorist bomb attack on a Martin Luther King Jr. Day parade in Spokane, Wash., was averted when police dismantled a sophisticated bomb; and a man who officials said had a long history of antigovernment activities was arrested in a car filled with explosives outside a packed mosque in Dearborn, Mich.

Last May, two police officers in West Memphis, Ark., were murdered when they stopped a van driven by a father-son team from the “sovereign citizens” movement, part of the larger Patriot movement. Eight law enforcement officers have been killed by radical-right extremists since President Obama was elected.

Taken together, these three strands of the radical right – hate groups, nativist extremist groups and Patriot organizations – increased from 1,753 groups in 2009 to 2,145 in 2010, a 22 percent rise. That followed a 2008-09 increase of 40 percent.

Jessie

How many of them have committed terrorist attacks in the last 10 years and how many have Muslim terrorists committed?

How many plots were broken up involving those groups and how many involving Muslims?

You are so desperate.

Michael

In Massachusetts (one of the more liberal states) alone has at least 10 Hate

Abiding Truth Ministries

Anti-Gay

Springfield
Aryan Terror Brigade

Racist Skinhead

Concerned Citizens and Friends of Illegal Immigration Law Enforcement

Anti-Immigrant

Framingham
East Coast White Unity

White Nationalist

Chelsea
Mass Resistance

Anti-Gay

Waltham
Nation of Islam

Black Separatist

Boston
National Black Foot Soldier Network

Black Separatist

Boston
National Socialist Movement

Neo-Nazi

North East White Pride

White Nationalist

Haverhill
United Northern and Southern Knights of the Ku Klux Klan

Ku Klux Klan

Michael

“In Massachusetts (one of the more liberal states) alone has at least 10 Hate groups”
Jessie

How many of them have pulled off a terrorist attack in the last 10 years?

Compare that to the number of terrorist attacks pulled off by Muslim terrorist groups and even “lone wolf” terrorist groups in the last 10 years.

THAT is why a hearing is taking place on capitol hill today.
- Michael
  
  Ask and you will receive,
  
  Stormfront “Hate Group” Members Praise Bedell’s Terror Attack on Pentagon, Call for More Violence
  
  members of the “white nationalist hate group” Stormfront started praising John Bedell’s actions and calling for additional violence against the U.S. government.
  
  Other Stormfront “white nationalists” complained that John Bedell didn’t aim high enough in his attack on the Pentagon, and stated that such terrorism was not sufficiently effective because it was only going after people “with no power, no connections,” and comparing the attack on an ant hill, stating that such “actions are without significance unless you can get to the queen.” Stormfront members called for more escalated terrorist attacks against higher profile individuals, stating that there were thousands “on this planet whose removal from it would make it a much better place for millions of others
  
  Date March 4, 2010
  
  and
  
  Tracking Hate Groups Aids Terrorism Fight
  Federal Agents Turn to Domestic Front
  
  By Maria Glod and Jerry Markon
  Washington Post Staff Writers
  Monday, May 19, 2003; Page B0
  
  http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A7672-2003May18
  
  In Pennsylvania, an Aryan Nation member who expressed anti-Semitic beliefs on the Internet in an open letter of support to Saddam Hussein was indicted on weapons charges in March. And a leader of the White Knights of Pennsylvania is accused of plotting to bomb abortion clinics.
  
  Tightrope’s Web site, which is rife with anti-Semitic and racist language, includes a “lynching section” with graphic photos. In “healthier times,” Cecchini wrote on the site, rapists and killers were “almost sure to face the ruthless wrath of a mob of enraged Aryan men both willing and able to inflict a horrible death.”
  
  On the Tightrope site, Cecchini compares nonwhites to the snakehead, a predatory fish found in a Crofton pond last summer that threatened to wipe out native species
  http://www.realcourage.org/2010/03/stormfront-bedell/
  - Michael
    
    In a February 2002 statement to a U.S. Senate committee, Dale L. Watson, then the FBI’s chief of counterterrorism and counterintelligence, named the National Alliance, World Church of the Creator and Aryan Nation, among others, as groups that present a “continuing terrorist threat.”
    
    again in case you missed it,
    
    Last May, two police officers in West Memphis, Ark., were murdered when they stopped a van driven by a father-son team from the “sovereign citizens” movement, part of the larger Patriot movement. Eight law enforcement officers have been killed by radical-right extremists since President Obama was elected.
    
    a terrorist bomb attack on a Martin Luther King Jr. Day parade in Spokane, Wash., was averted when police dismantled a sophisticated bomb; and a man who officials said had a long history of antigovernment activities was arrested in a car filled with explosives outside a packed mosque in Dearborn, Mich.
    
    The real threat isn’t from Muslims
    http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2011/03/10/the_real_threat_isnt_from_muslims/
- Beverly
  
  You don’t know what the hell you’re talking about, & seem to be one of the bigoted, uneducated masses we have been warned about.
- Beverly
  
  You haven’t a clue as to what’s going on in the real world.
  
  Better check your facts, turn off Faux “News”, & tune into the real world of fact checks.

Julia Pancake Rankin

Peter King is crazy like (a) Fox. He knows ill-informed anxious people are easily addicted to scapegoating. They are afraid to blame the corporate capitalist Oligarchy they have been taught to worship since kindergarten. Censorship on this site must please the wealthy underwriters who really hate factual and accurate NPR. I have joked around a little but I’ve not preached hate or stated assertions I knew to be untrue, and yet Tom Ashbook’s On Point repeatedly bars me from posting and edits out pertinent things I say. They allow right wing plants to ramble on. I don’t do this for my health alone! I will not post here again because I am clearly not welcome. Contact Redlair6@yahoo to commensurate or say different. This is the best show on American radio, which is not saying much. Farewell.

ThePope

Damn, Pancake was a girl. I liked him so much maybe I was in love? With her and just confused? Now who will I turn to so that I don’t feel completely alone? Life sucks. Pancake was a girl –damn. That makes him even cooler. Julia, if it’s any solace–I also had that problem. They can’t really ban me (they try all the time) but they always remove my best stuff pretty quick. Of course I use different names all the time so they actually have to read it to remove it. Some gets through (whoever censors this stuff is somehow limited — by rules or intelligence I can’t really tell) but they have removed priceless stuff that I have posted here. I’m the pope after all. I’m never f*cken’ wrong

Brennan511

If you don’t “speak american” [accent ID & soc justice] and you then choose! to live or raise your 1st gen children as far from Asian/Muslim friendly LATIN Amer [Mex! wants you, LISTEN! to God], you are loading the scales of injustice [personal].
Ft Hood Hasan was both 1st gen “THE EAST-coast”, from a single-location-immigrant parents [unbalanced greed] and the biggest RED FLAG is NO GIRLFRIEND!!! this does not! happen to Asians nor Latinos [med/muslim] in WEST AMERICA,
no the only YOUTH “loosers” in west amer are LEFT HANDED Irish and other “natural English speakers”
Prevention must be devinely quantified [TYN!] or ignorance will prevail.
This land is OUR child, and That land is THEIR child. STATISTICS of geography, the T.Y.N. facts are so quantified!!! that sensitivity/ignorance itself is offended. The infidel parents [like my own] are corrupt salesmen of a historyless [contradictory geography] sweet conspiracy with “personal” ignition [terror]. and sympathetic-confusion.
Dear Muslims [extrem] SAVE MEXICO and find your mislocatED children ASAP. [T.Y.N. Transplant Normative Youth !<1%!] teen! STUDENT EXCHANGE just-bliss.

Sean

Say what??

Hodaeltomi

Thank you for your program, As a Muslim who goes to the mosque regularly I can tell you the mainstream of Muslim teaching is about religious tolerence and coexistence. I invite the people who claim they know anything about Islam to visit our mosque to see and hear what is actually being discussed and preeched, from working hard, serving your community, promoting peace; To visit our Islamic school and see a huge map of the USA that the children put together with the heading “UNITED WE STAND” and “we love America”, simply because loving your country is considered a virtue in Islam. I am not saying that extreme Islam doesnt exist and that it should not be fought- and trust me I would be the the first one fighting it and condemning it- but I agree with Mona that it shouldnt be done in this hysterical racist manner. Overt hatred is unacceptable and brushing an entire community with extremist ideas does nothing to promote tolerence and peace. Extremism is bad and it exists in every religion and culture and that is the real enemy- not the entire Muslim community who is suffering just because of the rotten eggs that are spoiling the pudding. Islam is being politcized way too much in this country both because of extreme radicals who choose to misinterperet its teachings and from racist politicians and journalists/media who feed off scaring the general public from Islam. Good Muslim Americans have a lot to offer to this country, dont single them out and make them feel unwelcome in their own home.

Willaim

The actions of many Muslims does not indicate a religion of peace. Like it or not, you got a lot of radicals in your religion and need to clean it up.
- Hodaeltomi
  
  Thanks for your opinion but just because they are called “muslims” doesnt mean they in fact practice Islam. Let me ask you- how many Muslim people do you personally know to make a statement like that and how many are actually practicing Muslims? Research has shown that only 38 percent of Americans have ever known a Muslim- by the way that makes them more likely to believe what they hear in the Media or read in inaccurate racist books. They exist in all religions believe it or not but they are not highlighted like Muslims are. Also- who told you that moderate Muslims are not trying to “clean it up”?

Nadio28

Heard your program with a lot of interest. I really wanna know what mosque Asra goes to? She has no evidence whatsoever. I am a Muslim and I go to what can be called a mainstream mosque in michigan. And I have never heard any so called radical sermons? Am i missing something here? Pray tell asra, where should i go to get those radical sermons? There might be one or two mosques that preach radical ideas but they are a rarity and are no where mainstream.

Next time I urge you Tom to invite any of the mainstream Islamic scholars on your show who have condemned terrorism repeatedly and publicly. Maybe they should be given a platform too at a time when everyone is asking where the moderate muslim scholars are? If only you would invite Zaid Shakir or Suhaib Webb or even Hamza Yusuf to speak.

NK

These hearings are based on a flaw that religion is the motivating cause of homegrown islamic terrorism. All evidence shows that its not. American foreign policy however has everything to do with it. The NYC bomber was not a fervent pious muslim, yet he intended to blow up time square. He was however extremely disgruntled about US drones in his native pakistan.

millard_fillmore

So many leftists-liberals who are non-Muslims, are also disgruntled – even to a much larger extent than many Muslims – at US drones and “collateral damage,” and regularly express their displeasure at the killings of innocent Muslims (yet, these same people continue to vote war-mongering Democrats into office) in Afghanistan & Iraq. So, why is it that only Muslims take the next step, like Faisal Shahzad did?

Seems clear to me that the difference between someone like Faisal Shahzad and a commenter here who expresses the exact same (or even stronger) opinion about American wars, is one of faith.
- NK
  
  Well if its his faith thats the problem, how come 6 million people who share his faith in this country are not doing the same exact thing? Why don’t we see more of his kind? Stop demonising a religion that is shared by 1.6 billion people on earth. Alqaeda and their ilk are less than 1% of all muslims!
  - millard_fillmore
    
    You’re assuming that everyone who has faith acts in the exact same manner (which I have asserted nowhere in my comment), or that faith is the one and only factor in how people act. Just because not all Muslims are acting like Faisal Shahzad did, doesn’t invalidate the fact that his faith played a role in his actions.
    
    “Stop demonising a religion that is shared by 1.6 billion people on earth.”
    
    Classic logical fallacy of Argument by Numbers. Please explain what has 1.6 Billion people on earth got to do with it? Using your logic, you’d also say the exact same thing about an ideology like Nazism (“stop demonizing it”) if it had 1.6 Billion members.
    
    While you’re at it, could you please clarify what “demonization” is? It’s a given that for some inexplicable and illogical reason, you have placed Islam above criticism and put it on a pedestal. Why should I or others agree to your stupid dogma?
  - millard_fillmore
    
    “Why don’t we see more of his kind?”
    
    You mean Muslims who plot but don’t carry out their actions or are caught beforehand, or Muslims who carry out such actions like Shahzad did?
    
    And we are seeing more numbers of American Muslims getting radicalized, thus making the statement that American society does a better job of integrating Muslims than Europe does less viable. We’ve had recent sting operations which caught American Muslims (and Muslims living in America) plotting to blow people up. Somali-Americans have been joining Al-Shabab – a terrorist group in Somalia.
    
    “Anwar al-Awlaki, an al-Qaeda leader in Yemen, grew up in New Mexico. Adnan Shukrijumah, probably al-Qaeda’s director of external operations, is a Saudi-American who grew up in Brooklyn and Florida. David Headley, from Chicago and now in custody, scouted targets for the attack on Mumbai in 2008 that killed more than 160 people.
    
    America is producing followers as well as leaders. When a bunch of Somali-Americans from the Minneapolis-St Paul area started turning up in Somalia to wage jihad, the authorities hoped that this was a one-off. But the phenomenon turned out not to be confined either to Minnesota or to Somalis. In November 2009 Major Nidal Malik Hasan, a Palestinian-American, killed 13 people at Fort Hood in Texas, and a few months later Faisal Shahzad, a Pakistani-American, tried to set off a car bomb in Times Square in New York. “The American melting pot”, Mr Bergen and Mr Hoffman concluded, “has not provided a firewall against the radicalisation and recruitment of American citizens and residents, though it has arguably lulled us into a sense of complacency that home-grown terrorism couldn’t happen in the United States.” The White House is worried too: Barack Obama’s National Security Strategy, published last May, promised to invest in efforts to counter radicalisation at home.”
    
    Link: http://www.economist.com/node/18332766
  - millard_fillmore
    
    BTW NK, you need to be consistent in your view of Muslims. Do you think they are individuals (which implies that not all Muslims will act like Shahzad did), or do you think that 1.6 Billion of them think and act alike? You seem to want it both ways – group them together when convenient, and represent them as individuals when convenient.

millard_fillmore

I don’t know what happens in mosques in the US and what is preached, but here’s an excerpt from Irfan Hussain’s article, based on which, it’s not unreasonable to conclude that some mosques likely preach hatred.

AS much of the world celebrated Barack Obama’s victory on Nov 4, I received a summary of a khutba, or address, at a mosque in Baltimore by Kaukab Siddique. As this missive was carried on a website that claims to be America’s biggest Islamic site, I assume many people read it.

I am including a few excerpts here to give readers a flavour of the kind of thinking that informs many educated Muslims living in America:

“Look at the people who are PLANNING, ORGANISING, IMPLEMENTING and FUNDING the campaign of the new ‘saviour’. All of them, at the national level, are Zionist Jews.

“He [Obama] came from a racially oppressed minority but are there any black leaders in KEY positions in his campaign? None! Not one!

“He is preparing for a bigger war than Bush and is openly talking of crushing the Islamic resistance in Afghanistan and is boasting of going into Pakistan and ‘getting’ Osama bin Laden. This is a recipe for disaster. If Bush, with a much larger army and a very aggressive policy could not ‘get’ Osama, what makes this man think he can do it.

“Muslims, including those who are planning to come here and become Americans, should realise that if they do not have an Islamic programme, they will be shattered by what the forces of evil are doing to America.

“There is much good in America but there is also evil. When we came here, we could not have known that homosexuality will be legitimised and adultery and fornication will be glorified. The price we have to pay for coming here is that we lose our children to a way of life which defies all decency and morality, be it Muslim or Christian. Zionism is strangling the soul of this nation.…

“Making overtures to the campaigns of the Democrats and the Republicans is spiritual suicide. When the mass culture is controlled from coast to coast by forces hostile to Islam and all decency, the conservative forms of religiosity cannot save us, our families or our children.…

“We cannot survive as Muslims by becoming part of the system which is strangling the soul of this nation. We must organise, mobilise and act OUTSIDE the power structure. Stay away from the oppressors who rule here and reach out to the people.…”

Advising Muslims to remain outside the society they have chosen to migrate to is a recipe for marginalisation and seclusion. Indeed, what Mr Siddique is saying to his congregation is the message many other Muslim leaders in the West are conveying to those foolish enough to follow them.

Over the years, many English friends have asked me why Muslims choose to live in England if they hate its civilisation and values so much. I have been unable to offer any convincing reply as I don’t understand this phenomenon myself. But surely, even people like Mr Kaukab Siddique should be able to see the significance and transformative power of the recent American election.

Here’s the link to the full article:
http://archives.dawn.com/weekly/mazdak/20081108.htm

BTW, I’m noticing that some commenters here are casting doubts on Asra Nomani’s views by using illogical arguments like (paraphrasing) “she doesn’t represent Muslims” or “she’s doing it for her book sales” instead of debating her points. This is a well-known phenomenon and a (likely) blind spot of (mostly white) liberals – praise the minority and “empower” them to speak for themselves, but if someone from the minority speaks up and says something which is counter to the liberal narrative and is perceived as politically incorrect/disagreeing with the liberal-left dogma, out come the knives. Of course, this irony would be lost on most who indulge in such behavior.

I’d suggest that people read some Muslim writers (like Irfan Hussain) and open their minds to view-points different from those of Noam Chomsky, On Point etc. Otherwise, you’re just perpetuating your white privilege and “Uncle Tom” phenomenon (minorities get a leg-up as long as they keep quiet or agree with what you say) in the guise of opposing evil America.

Egyptian Muslim

Hello,
I read your comments and the replies that you have posted, and I am happy to see you admit ” I dont know what happens in mosques in the US and what is preached” because I suggest you visit a mosque in your community before making blanket statements that encompass an entire religion. Extremism exists in all relgions and cultures and it is time for people to realize that it is extremism we are talking about and not Islam. I am sure there are extreme Imams out there but I am positive it is not “80-85 percent” as Mr King stated earlier (and later took it back as it was inaccurate)
Have you followed the events of the revolution in Egypt? did you see Muslims protecting Christians duirng Mass in Tahrir square and Christians protecting them during prayer? Have you seen them dressing each others wounds? There are pictures on the internet if you dont believe me
Do you know the Egyptian government used to arrest Muslims who prayed in mosques regularly, a friend of mine got arrested just because he wore a beard- and he wasnt even wearing it for a religious reason!! the government was oppressive to everybody- Christians and Muslims and there is some evidence that they have created many of the clashes between Christians and Muslims to provoke instability and fear amongst people. Have you ever lived in Egypt? I am proud to say my best friend growing up is a Coptic Christian who I respect and trust very much, never did we allow these differences separate us.
I dont blame you for your comments because a lot of the media draws a negative picture about Islam and unfortunately that is what people believe but I assure you if you seek gathering first hand evidence about your ideas, or even got to know a moderate Muslim, you may change your mind.
May peace be with you
- millard_fillmore
  
  Egyptian Muslim,
  
  What blanket statement have I made?
  
  And did you even read that article, and if so, do you agree with what Kaukab Siddique said?
  
  Yes, I saw the images and read the report of Muslims protecting Christians in Egypt, and vice versa – that’s wonderful. But then, I also read some recent reports of clashes between Muslims and Christians in Egypt, which is not so wonderful. Both incidents are true.
  
  “Extremism exists in all relgions and cultures and it is time for people to realize that it is extremism we are talking about and not Islam.”
  
  You are contradicting yourself in the above statement, and I can understand that since you are a Muslim, it is painful for you to read criticism of your faith, just like many Obama worshipers/voters here find it difficult to read criticism of his policies, and make apologist remarks/come to his defense/blame others, instead of introspecting. You are doing exactly the same instead of facing the facts. It’s human nature and very understandable.
  
  I am aware of the blasphemy laws in Islam, and as long as such laws are practiced (I won’t repeat myself – you can read the instances I gave in other comments), I don’t think my opinion of your religion will change.
  
  I am aware of what happened to Nasr Abu Zayd and that an Egyptian Sharia court declared him an apostate from Islam because they found his scholarly work disagreeable, and he received death-threats. So much for reform from within.
  
  I am aware of how non-Muslims are treated in many Muslim majority countries, and what legal rights they have as compared to Muslims, so I don’t think my opinion of your religion will change till non-Muslims are started giving equal rights. But then, that would require abrogation of the bigoted concept of kaffir/infidel (similar to non-believer in Christianity) from your religious books, which I don’t see happening any time soon.
  
  You cannot blame all such instances on Mubarak or the State or America, and shield your religion from such inhumane behavior. That would be very dishonest of you.
  
  Honestly speaking, I consider monotheistic religions and desert death-cults a pox on this planet and a curse to humankind, with their stupid fairy tales and fighting over gaining monopoly to pimp god. The sooner we are rid of them, the better it will be for all humans. Which doesn’t mean that good, kind people do not exist in these monotheistic religions. You’re confusing and conflating ideology/’way of thinking’ for/with people, whereas I am not. There were many Germans during Hitler who were kind, loving people in their day-to-day lives, had kids and family; but when it came to the ideology, they did cruel things without giving it a second thought.
  
  I think we’re not going to agree on many things, and it is fine with me that we agree to disagree. But don’t try to throw dust in my eyes in an attempt to defend the indefensible. It may work on liberals wrecked with guilt, but not on me.
  
  Peace to you too.
  - Guest
    
    millard_fillmore,
    You’ve made a lot of interesting remarks regarding Islam, unfortunately i don’t have enough time at the moment to discuss all of them but I just though I’d elaborate on one important point regarding shari’a law.
    
    What people need to understand, both Muslims and non-Muslims is that Islamic law or shari’a is not a divine revelation. It is rather an attempt made by Islamic scholars to understand the intentions of texts. Now the cycle was supposed to be ongoing back from the days of Imam Al Ghazali, the four jurists of the Sunni madhab and other scholars to this day. Sadly this didn’t happen, and as a result you ended up with an extremely outdated and regressive set of laws, laws that when applied to a modern society can lead to nothing but its downfall.
    
    An example of that is the one you mentioned about non-Muslims having unequal rights when compared to Muslims, which is absolutely true. But bear in mind that the idea of coexistence of people of different beliefs, some of which are minorities was revolutionary at the time, even if they did not enjoy equal rights. Sadly, the effort of analysis and re-interpretation of texts has remained stagnant for the past few centuries and so you end up with a regressive set of laws and naturally, Islam will take the blame for this.
- millard_fillmore
  
  “Do you know the Egyptian government used to arrest Muslims who prayed in mosques regularly..”
  
  And why did the Egyptian government do that? Is it possible that there were some historical incidents related to religion in Egypt, and this policy was a result? Or was the Egyptian government totally crazy and arbitrarily came up with this policy of persecuting Muslims who prayed? By the way, just to be clear, I am not supporting Mubarak’s repressive policies here.

millard_fillmore

Religion of Peace or Religion of Intolerance? You decide:

The fallout of religious cleansing
Irfan Husain
January 5, 2011

THERE hasn’t been much for millions of Christians in the Middle East and Africa to celebrate over the recent Christmas and New Year season.

In a suicide bombing at a church in Alexandria over New Year that left over a score dead, terrorists staged yet another attack against Egypt’s Coptic Christians. This community has lived in Egypt for nearly two millennia, and at 8 million, constitutes around 10 per cent of the population. An earlier drive-by shooting had left half a dozen dead.

In Iraq, a church full of Christians was taken over on Oct 31, with nearly fifty killed. In the resulting atmosphere of fear and sorrow, hardly any Iraqi Christians celebrated Christmas publicly. As it is, around half the million-strong Christian population has fled persecution and violence at the hands of the majority. The Boko Haram Muslim cult in Nigeria has staged a number of attacks against churches that have left scores dead over the last few days. The name of the group literally means ‘books are haram, or forbidden’, but it stands for the prohibition of modern education.

Reporting on the aftermath of the Alexandria attack, the New York Times quotes one Christian protester as shouting: “If this had happened in a mosque, the government would be doing something. But this happens to us every year and every day, and they do nothing.”This, unfortunately, is true. In fact, if a mosque anywhere in the world is attacked and worshippers killed and wounded, the backlash encompasses the entire Islamic world. A random attack on a Muslim centre in America will spark headlines and outrage on the other side of the world. But why is not this same anger expressed by Muslims over the killings of Christian fellow-citizens of Iraq and Egypt?

In other words, when did it become acceptable for Muslims to kill Christians? At school, and later in government, I had many Christian friends. Sadly, most of them have left Pakistan, and settled in the West where they and their children have done very well. The truth is that Pakistan is no longer a hospitable place for anybody not subscribing to the majority Sunni Muslim faith.

And yet despite all the evidence to the contrary, Muslims like to think that the Islamic bond between ‘the people of the Book’ somehow guarantees the security of Christian and Jewish minorities living in their midst. Tell that to Aasia Bibi, the Christian woman condemned to death under Pakistan’s draconian Blasphemy Laws, and whose family has had to go into hiding as a result of death threats from their neighbours.

The reality is that over the last couple of decades, intolerance has intensified in the Muslim world. In the aftermath of 9/11, when suspicion and anger shaped attitudes towards Muslims in much of the West, and Islamophobia raised its ugly head, action and reaction have led to a sharp decline in the relations between the two major faiths and their followers.

But it’s fair to note that despite this deterioration, the West has been remarkably restrained in confronting the Muslims living in Europe and America, even given the clear threat some of them pose to their host nations. In Muslim countries, Christians are being targeted only for their beliefs, and not for any acts of violence. Imagine the outrage and the reprisals had any of them actually carried out terrorist attacks against the majority.

Ironically, the Western media has not focussed on the increasing anti-Christian violence in many Muslim countries. While individual attacks are reported, the linkages between them are seldom remarked on. There is no equivalent in Christendom to the Muslim ummah. And while the Pope and various Western leaders have condemned the anti-Christian violence, no tangible steps have been taken to protect them.

The United States considers its relationship with both Egypt and post-Saddam Iraq as much too important to threaten sanctions against either state to push them to protect their Christian citizens. Whatever his other sins, Saddam Hussein ensured equal rights for Christians. Tariq Aziz, his foreign minister for years, was a Christian, as were other members of the government. What is more troubling than these frequent attacks is the silence of Muslim leaders and clerics. Few voices were raised in recent weeks to condemn this rising violence, and while the Muslim media did report it, few editorials have been as critical as they would have been had Muslims been at the receiving end.

If this disturbing trend continues, it is only a matter of time before evangelical Christians in the West begin to use their considerable influence to retaliate. Such an escalation will help nobody but jihadi forces who, in all probability, are carrying out these attacks against Christian targets in order to raise the stakes.

Another reason for this wave of violence is that extremists see local Christians as soft targets: as they cannot hit Westerners as easily, they bomb churches instead. In some places, Christians are being punished for perceived Western wrongs committed against Muslims.

So where is this mindless religious cleansing taking us? The Arab Christians now being forced to
seek sanctuary in the West will harbour long and bitter memories of their suffering. In time, they might be at the vanguard of angry exiles who will influence their adopted countries’ policies towards the Muslim world. They may also seek to settle scores against the innocent Muslims living in their towns and neighbourhoods.

By our silence, we become collusive in what’s happening. It’s not enough to say that we ourselves did nothing to persecute the minorities. The question is what did we do to protect them? Only by condemning the violence in clear and unequivocal terms can we hope to stop it. Anything less is hypocritical and cowardly.

Every once in a while, I get emails from Christian readers who once lived in Pakistan. They speak wistfully of the peaceful time they had spent there as kids, and wonder how the country has become the violent place it is today. Having grown up in just the same environment, I wonder about the same thing myself: how did it ever come to this? And can we ever become a sane society again?

Link: http://www.dawn.com/2011/01/05/the-fallout-of-religious-cleansing.html

ThePope

Don’t forget the burning of christian churches by hindus in India. I think they burned most of them down because of hindus converting to christianity in order to get monetary benefits. This evidently (true or not I do not know) was like shoving a stick into a hornets nest. I would bet there were at least a few instances of christian violence againsts minorities somewhere recently too. There have been some pretty horrific atrocities in Africa by people who claim to be christians. Child soldier type stuff, and mutilations etc.
Religions — gotta love em’
Anonymous

How convenient, There is a big hole in you story. You never mentions that these country have been invited and Occupied by the west with blessing of our Christian communities. Can you recall Gulf war that was way before 9/11 , Iraq war had nothing to do with 9/11 , Afghanistan few radical Arabs attack 9/11 and entire afghan getting the raft.and now they are pushing to go to war with Iran. So be honest about it when was the last time that a christian country was occupied by a Muslim country?
- millard_fillmore
  
  Are you really arguing that all intolerance of non-Muslims by Muslims started and was caused by US foreign policies? How convenient! You really need to read your history. That stupid narrative is unfortunately not backed by any facts or reality. Maybe you are one of those gullible people who still believe – contrary to facts – that Islam is a religion of peace.

ThePope(the Real one {really})

And don’t forget the ethnic cleansing dude from Serbia that looked like Newt Gingrich. That dude was killing muslims faster than they could breed. If NATO hadn’t fused weaponed his ass he would have pushed them back to Constantinople. So I guess the religious excuse for insanity is polymorphic.

Michael

Rob,

Found where Peter King got his false and debunked figure of 80 percent of mosques in the U.S. are owned, operated and led by Wahhabis or radicals. It turns out it from his star witness Zuhdi Jasser who is on the board of the Clarion Group.

Not only did King repeat such statement he’s done it mutiple times, he than again repeated it in 2006,2007,2008,2009.

mediamatters org/research/201102020008

So far from the Witch Hunt hearing, is the Los Angeles County sheriff so putting out mutiple times on the fallacy of muslims not helping law enforcement. Who coined what King is doing is counter productive, What the L.A. sheriff have encountered does not square with what King and the republicans esp congressman Walsh is claiming.

thehill com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/148651-king-hearing-counterproductive-la-county-sheriff-testifies

mediamatters org/blog/201103100012

The Los Angeles County sheriff slammed the House Homeland Security Committee’s hearing on U.S. Muslim radicalization on Thursday in his opening testimony before the panel.

“Clearly, we should be examining radicalization as an issue that affects all groups, regardless of religion,” Sheriff Lee Baca said.

“It is counterproductive to building trust when individuals or groups claim that Islam supports terrorism,” he said. “This plays directly into the terrorist’s propaganda that the West’s ‘war on terror’ is actually a ‘war against Islam.’”

Baca said Muslims in L.A. County have been instrumental in keeping law enforcement officials informed about suspicious activity.

Pretty much Old White Republicans are once again fearful of a minority and are grandstanding how such minority is a threat while ignoring white/christian extermist(in King’s case openly supporting such)

Want another example check out Congressman Duncun 5 minute rant

wikipedia org/wiki/Zuhdi_Jasser

Michael

Funny that Jasser and others are claiming the radical muslims are for or engage in Political Correctness in light of all actual evidence.

Cause we all know Bin Laden is a big supporter of PC behavior

Michael

BTW MSNBC cut away from the Muslim congressman for about 4:40 minutes

Fathands Allen

I wish we could get away from addressing people by their religion. I bet we’d have a lot less to fear if we started describing people by an attribute of their lives that doesn’t make them sound so “other.”

Anonymous

Islam is not a problem in this country Islam-o-phobia is.

Anonymous

Islam is not a problem in this country Islam-o-phobia is.

Anonymous

Problem with our psyche exist way before What so called radical muslim arrived. Some how I don’t know who has drum up this philosophy that we Americans always need a Boggy man for our existence. Or is it just a way to control our masses. You know the term like Duck and cover Russian are coming and they never did. And now we have replace Russian with Al-Qaeda and radical Islam . Can you guess what country will become the next boggy man? Duck and cover chinese are coming.

Michael

The START database on terrorism in America, which tracks all incidents of political violence, shows that most attacks in the last two decades have been on black churches, reproductive rights facilities, government offices, and individual minorities. And those have been committed mainly by right-wing extremists. From 1990 to 2009, START identified 275 “homicide events’’ that killed 520 people and were committed by right-wing ideologues. There were many more incidents of destruction of property, nonfatal attacks, and other acts of thuggery by white supremacists, private militias, and the like.

Willaim

Did that database include the leftist unabomber?

Curious

I believe that Islam is, at the heart, a non-violent religion. I believe that Christianity is also, at the heart, a non-violent religion. (Both have messed up, havn’t they). As a person with a Christian background, I would love to have Islamic friends to just be with, respect and support as genuine friends. But how does that happen? Where do I meet others who are open to the idea. I know I’m not allowed to marry an Islamic woman…So how does one begin a dialogue where I can be myself and others can be themselves and I can experience friends of Islam?

millard_fillmore

Curious,

How can a way of thinking, an ideology be termed non-violent if it:
a. claims exclusivity over truth and the direct line to god, and
b. gets a self-declared mandate of “converting” others, through any means necessary?

Your belief, unfortunately, is neither backed by logic nor by historical facts, as intolerance is coded into monotheistic religions, when they divide the world into believers (superior) and non-believers (inferior).

You might also want to look up “No True Scotsman” fallacy.

millard_fillmore

Egyptian Muslim,

You might be interested in reading this book written by Ibn Warraq:
http://www.amazon.com/Why-I-Am-Not-Muslim/dp/1591020115/

Here’s an excerpt from a review written by a Turkish ex-Muslim of Sunni background:

“[..] As humanists, and as those who champion human rights (and let’s be honest here- this is the domain of activist liberals in the West) we cannot overlook those same human rights in the name of multicultural tolerance. Yes, we are all entitled to believe what we want and to act accordingly, but we must insist that all rights are guaranteed to all human beings, even if those rights are in opposition to certain religious dogmas. To liberals, nothing is more important than being fair, open-minded, and inclusive. Warraq must concede that humanist values have been propagated by liberal reformers. But we liberals do have a standard to bear, and not all ideologies will be able to meet it. We must work for their reform, and this is especially true of Islam and its disastrous human rights record. Unfortunately, any criticism of Islam is immediately classified as racist orientalism or western imperialism, even if the criticism is coming from Muslims and ex-Muslims themselves. This interpretation of Islamic critique needs to be viewed as humanist reform and not colonialism.“

The part I bolded and underlined can be easily validated through numerous comments on this and other posts – here and elsewhere.

millard_fillmore

Egyptian Muslim,

I am also aware of historical Muslims like Ibn Rušd (ابن رشد‎), and nowhere in my comments have I stated – or implied – that all Muslims are evil/bad.