Egypt had 6% growth last year, I heard on Sunday’s network shows. I believe I heard that twice. I take it that those percents went to the oligarchs, not the 50% who live on less than $2 a day.
I somehow do not think the 40-plus million living on $2 a day blame the United States for their oppression. I don’t think they don’t blame us for rising food prices, though someone in the Onpoint forum outlined last week how the QEII quantitative easing would go into commodities pushing up the global prices of food. And when I hear what Mubarak was offering Sunday, to lower the price of food, reinstate government subsidies, it reminds me of what American politicians do to keep the peons in line: provide more Food Stamps, more unemployment insurance, more free medical services, housing subsidies. It will keep them out of the streets.
Sheep! This is not the same as enabling you. It does not push resources toward institutions that can give you jobs: not sooner; not later. (But I’d rather say that particular piece to our own Congress first; we need the exact same thing.)
If the Egyptian aspiring middle class manage to set up a government that truly does what Hillary Clinton says, making a space for peaceful fruition of the aspirations and ambitions of the people, well, I want to know EXACTLY how that is done. Believe you me.

Poverty, high unemployment, limited future prospects and a government unable or unwilling to offer solutions or any meaningful change have been noted as the underlying cause for the unrest in Egypt. Doesn’t this all sound eerily familiar to the concerns we have right here in the U.S.?

While we have a representative form of democracy, the two parties appear incapable of any real change and frustration here is growing. There appears to be a serious disconnect between our elected representatives and those who have voted them in to do the work.

At the same time voters do not seem to have the stomach necessary to agree to touch choices that need to be made.

Are the Tea Party activists the first small wave in a tsunami that could sweep these shores? As the disparity between rich and poor grows in this country does the gap between the haves and the have-nots threaten to make our democracy a hollow ideal?

While I surely hope not, We could be watching our own future unfold before us in Egypt.

President Obama’s equivocation on such a momentous occasion would nurture even more resentment in Egypt against the United States. Once again, we fail miserably to live up to our ideals.

Zane in Salt Lake City, UT

“…when I hear what Mubarak was offering Sunday, to lower the price of food, reinstate government subsidies, it reminds me of what American politicians do to keep the peons in line…”

I agree. But, when their dictator offers those subsidies, there is a significant difference. Their subsidies are paid for by US taxpayers to the tune of 1.5 billion each and every year!

Our oligarchs have been borrowing money from China underwritten by the American taxpayers and just giving it away to one of their fellow oligarchs.

Here is an idea that would mark me as a terrorist within the DC beltway: How about the Egyptian government borrow the money from Us and pay us the interest… Or better yet why don’t THEY borrow the money DIRECTLY from the Chinese.

…and lets not forget the 3 billion we give to Israel each year by the same method. and all the others as well: http://blogs.forbes.com/brianwingfield/2011/01/29/making-sense-of-u-s-foreign-aid-to-egypt-and-elsewhere/

We are the biggest fools on the planet! Fiscal conservatives in DC never mention this giveaway as waste, but point to Unemployment benefits paid for by US workers first! I wonder why?

Great Idea Zeno but I’ve got a better one. Take the total amount we give to the countries in the Middle East, then subtract that from the SS benefits paid in the US. Since stability in that part of the world is so important to our security I’m sure our senior citizens will respond in a positive way.

To Zane:

The situation in Egypt is immensely more complicated than you seem to imply.
Read Ross Douthat in today’s NYTimes to perhaps better understand President Obama’s “equivocation”

“As for Michael, he asks and replies to his question himself (take a look at his latest post on the Friday’s weekly discussion).
FYI, Michael, I knew the Southern Levant before Joan Peters published her book, I knew that the British called the East Bank of the Jordan Moab while creating a job for some emir exiled from Arabia (Avi Shlaim called his grandson “my little king”). And I knew that the capital of the ancient Israeli Kingdom was on the East Bank too. I knew Gilad region on the East Bank and legends from there.
Listen to the second hour, Michael, and think about Germanic genius.”

Again Zinovy Vayman, Galilee, Proof? The ancient Israeli Kingdom is not the same as the current created state you are aware of this right? And what’s the deal with Germanic comments? You are aware if it wasn’t for the information and culture taken from the arab world toward the end of the dark ages those Germanic states may not be the way there are today. As well legends do not mean facts or the Truth. You never answered or explain why you use the word Dilution of the Germanic Race?

Nice that you knew about Southern Levant yet said your repeating her debunked lies. Your German master comment was quite troubling as well. Any reason why you make such a comment?

(Boston, MA)
The most risible line that I’ve heard from all these elitists on the Sunday chat-shows was

“We want Democracy, but not what it might bring.”

Let’s just deconstruct that statement a minute and learn the truth about our history. Start with the colonial mass murder we used to open up the Philippines, our Cold War implementations of right-wing dictators in Greece and Iran and other right-wing dictators in Guatemala and Chile. In this context, Egypt is par for the course. And the truth is we can refine that statement above.

“We don’t want Democracy.”

I am inspired by the courage and commitment to democracy that the Egyptian people are showing. I hope our government will actually stand for democracy this time and pledge its support as Egypt transitions into a government of and for the people.

Is there really anyone, anywhere who isn’t with the Egyptian and Tunisian people right now? This is a HUMAN issue. Go Humans!

John,10:09 AM:

A successful democracy requires a well educated and civil society. Without either of the two results in chaos or worse. I have been to Egypt and they are neither well educated nor civil.

I think that proposed voting technique would be horrible. A secret ballot is needed, not a way to appear to legitimize a crowd’s opinion.

I don’t believe that Mubarak can ‘rope a dope’ his way back in. The place has exploded, it isn’t just a few people breaking windows in protest.

You can’t put that back in the can and close the lid. The only hope for Egypt is for him to leave and someone who is massively popular (IS there anyone??) takes over with a plan for elections in 6 to 12 months.

I want to share the Coptic Christian perspective with your audience and highlight their conspicuous absence from this protest movement.

For the next 3 days, the 10 million Copts (Coptic Christians) living in Egypt and also the 10 million living abroad are engaging in a fast for the next 3 days as we all pray for a positive outcome … specifically, that a secular resolution can occur that will not leave us living under a fundamentalist regime headed by Il’ ikhwan (Muslim Brotherhood). (I don’t think that I or any other Egyptians really believed the view of your Brookings Institute advocate the other day who was glossing over their positions with a fairly positive brush.)

Ultimately, I and some others are cautiously optimistic about this new movement, and that we can experience a fair and free democracy with those proper safeguards that Hillary Clinton called for … perhaps something like constitutional limits or strong, objective judicial system … as a way to prevent a “tyranny of the majority.”

In the 70s and 80s, the Christian community experienced a similar moment of fear and uncertainty, and in the end God heard our prayers and protected us (like the last 1500 years). I trust that the future may not be so bad …

John
Princeton, NJ

Check out Juan Cole’s number one foreign policy challenge, written on 1/1/11: http://goo.gl/tMp7d

When Tunisia went so quickly, it shouldn’t have been surprising that Egypt would light up, the question was only how far it could go: http://goo.gl/Cujpr

The people of Egypt have been in suspended animation, emasculated by the machinery of geopolitics and the “peace process”. Sleeper has awoken in Egypt. And one upshot, along with release of “Palestine Papers” is that the “peace process” is dead.

C’mon. This is a double nothing burger with a side of who cares. Somebody please tell me what’s gonna change in Egypt? It is just as likely to get worse there than it is to get better.

Good God, they could end up with a plutocracy like ours!

Leftfield, Wisconsin

My concern is a repeat of history.
Saddam was toppled in Iraq and it was reduced to sectarian islamist based violence. Here we have another, perhaps less violent and demented ruler who has fought to keep his country secular and open being removed. This will be reduced to another islamic, intolerant US and Israel hating republic.
Is it possible that some nations need to be run with a stronger hand because that is the language understood there? That democracy is possible but not really welcomed by the opposing parties?

“What are the core America interests?”

That’s easy.

Israel and OIL.

I think that would depend on who the “we” is that is going to be in trouble.

I agree with Brandstad. Obama needs to take control of foreign policy just like George W. Bush did. Send in our military and occupy the country. And borrow the total cost of doing it.

THIS is the way revolution leading to democracy SHOULD look. THIS is what America SHOULD back. THIS is what will, when history looks back, COULD (if we handle it right) make a total mockery of the sad, tragic, misconceived military-created interventionism of George Bush. Andrew Bacevich should call the shots now.

the United States, an allegedly democratic country, doesn’t trust other nations with democracy it seems–surely the USA trusts Egyptians with free and fair elections about as much as Mubarak does.

I agree with Brandstad. Obama needs to take control of foreign policy just like George W. Bush did. Send in our military and occupy the country. And borrow the total cost of doing it.
Posted by Bumstead

So right. We are already over there and what are the 140,000 mercenaries we are paying 4 and 5 times what US soldiers get paid going to do when we “leave” Iraq?

Larry, Bumstead was joking, he was being ironic.

No body asked the logical question till now, why everyone other than Mubarak are against Israel? change your policy against Israel and everyone will be happy.
Posted by Ashraf

Wow, you have such an amazing command of international relations and the complexity of this region.

I suppose you could say the same about Iran as they are not Arabs, add to that that 90% of Iranians are Shi’a.

Wait, we are already doing this and it has no effect on the problems in the region.

Posted by geffe

Can you tell me what exactly are you doing? I just want to remind you that the Arab world had no problem with US till 1948, when you implanted Israel in the middle east. We, in Egypt, have never invaded any country. We fought in 1973 to get back our land. You want to suppress the Arab and Muslim world for ever, and you thought you succeeded, but our revolution shocked you. Change your policy, respect our rights, and we are willing to live in peace. If you gathered the nuclear arsenal of the whole world and bombed us with it, you can NOT stop us from getting our freedom.

The region is not that complex sir, it is just your media that brain-washed you to convince Americans that this is the only way to deal with the situation.

OK then why did you post what you did? I love the semll of double irony in the morning…

One has to ask why we don’t have more protest here in the US. The Egyptians are protesting about their standard of living as well as the oppressive Mubarak regime.
The middle class in this country is losing ground just as they have in Egypt. We are not at the state of the Egyptians, but the question is how long until we are?

We live in a plutocracy and we Americans seem pretty complacent about it. ( I’m including myself in this complacency)

Geffe, please knock off the comparisons between American government and Egyptian.

We are the richest country on Earth, they one of the poorest.
Our government is partly corrupt, but not completely.
We have actual elections, they do not.

Ashraf, it’s all Israel’s fault, I get it.

What I’m trying to do is to point out how your statement was misguided. If Israel did not exist do you think things would be different in the Middle East in terms of oppressive regimes? Do you really think that there would not be a Murbarak or an Assad?

Ashraf how about giving back the land to the 1 million Jewish refugees kicked out of Arab countries

To Larry
Let us first celebrate the bravery of the Egyptian people and join with them in spirit. Let’s not use it as another opportunity by some to stick it to Obama. He indeed does champion the human rights of the Egyptian people and always has. As President,he is walking a very thin line and cannot risk an implosion by giving out poorly thought out statements to a population already on the edge.

Someone posted, if we don’t let Egypt’s current uprising succeed (as if we the Americans had any say in it), there will only be a greater and worse revolution later on. The pressure cooker theory. The “pressure” was being set out as extremism, as if the only democratic “heat” in that part of the planet were radical jihad.
From the documentaries I’ve seen, radical jihad to some extent came about the same way the arming of al Kaida came about, as a spinoff of our attempting to gain supporters more familiar with that part of the world who would drive the Soviets out of Afghanistan. Money came into the region, I think from Saudi Arabia, to educate children (and feed them, by the way), educating them the way they do, in the Quran. I don’t know the exact arc, and Pakistan is vast, but jihad is now being seen as a DEFENSIVE struggle, not an aggressive struggle. It is a defense against a “West” that is determined to undermine them. I forget what it is the West is doing, but invading, demeaning religious attitudes, creating threats and challenges (cultural and physical) in many parts of the Islamic world.
There are a few nonprofits who make it their business to carry the good news to various Islamic mosques that no, the West is not trying to crush Islam, and they do not need to feel threatened, and therefore feel that they need to crush the West.
I’m not sure what “the West” is. I understand that David Letterman has quite a following among even rather fundamentalist Muslims. They like the way he interacts with the powers that be. He can chop away at this and that and get away with it, even get a laugh. Oh, is this the Western way?
So apparently freedom of expression and freedom of assembly are parts of “the West” that even jihad has some respect for. But when jihadis feel that their values and homes are being attacked, then what do you expect? Is it paranoid for them to say that? I ask you.
Sometimes a nation that is coming together into a democratic whole creates the most beautiful and powerful traditions. I’m thinking of Germany as it came together, and Italy as it came together — after the upheavals in Europe that happened around 1840. Enough of kings and empires. Enough of every little duke with his entourage. Let’s come together in nations, and make a name for ourselves. And then you have cultural renaissance and much to celebrate. Egypt could do that too. They don’t necessarily go straight to Mussolini and Hitler. Or, as in Russia, straight to Stalin. Why not? Because of twitter. If there are actually reasonable people out there, they can identify and capture the zealots and put them in zoos. Okay, I go too far. We are likely to face 3 billion bin-ladens. Okay, I go too far.

Jeffe, I actually do think the dictators you mention (Mubarak and Assad) might not have such an iron fist if there weren’t such oil reserves within their purview (the Suez Canal, actual wells). Would the United States care so much about Israel, with its purported defense system (nuclear), which Netanyahu says is useless to Israel because a first strike would wipe them out, would we send money not only to Israel but to Egypt on Israel’s behalf, by the billions, if it were not to defend oil interests in the region?
And in order to protect oil interests, you can’t risk governments answerable to the people, rather than governments answerable to American foreign aid. How can a tyrant be a puppet? I ask you. I don’t know the area closely, but I would say without the oil, our tax money would stay at home and be building a 21st century infrastructure. In short, there is something circular going on.
American interests: oil and Israel can be collapsed into oil and a client-state (or so) to keep it flowing.
If we have a broader interest in the stability that we say democracy can bring, that remains to be seen. It actually remains to be seen here as well, because just like countries where elections are fraudulent and therefore participation is either 100% (remember Iraq? voting for Saddam Hussein by 100%?) or very low. If we drum up enough partisanship, we can get a fair turnout, but it is not too impressive.
People are in the streets in America now. In Cambridge, for example, demonstrating for people in Egypt. We like the idea of people coming together and putting together a better system. Evolution or revolution? Or some blend. Oh, I hope there is NOT some “strong man” to foist order. I hope there is a “weak sister” (or several) to help generate the best Egypt can bring.

I don’t think the fear of extremists is just a scarecrow tactic. It is real. They may start quietly and once in power they can change. We experienced that in Iran and we can see how hard liners have expanded their enemies to their once close friends, let’s say no more . That said, Egypt does not have an iconic leader as Iranian revolution had. The waves of demonstrators will sweep us whether we side with them or not. I am disappointed by the administration reaction to what is imminent. U.S has to convince Mubarak to leave, they have to try to establish a communication channel with moderate opposition, try to support them and influence them if you will, in order to minimize the effects of the impact. Unfortunately I can see this opportunity is slipping away, the way the administration has been reacting. They keep consulting Israel, Jordan and Saudi Arabia, fine, but look it is coming and these guys didn’t get it either. The right wing of Israeli government can not offer any solutions, intel might be, and has failed by further radicalizing the movements over the past few decades.

I am less hopeful than you about the positive outcomes that result from the creation of nations, Ellen, though certainly I wish the best for Egyptians and all peoples, including our own, as they seek justice and true representation. Germany, did not go straight to Hitler, but before him there was the Kaiser and before him Bismarck, certainly no democrats they. Too soon I fear new nations descend into organizations to promote the interests of a select few whose concerns soon diverge from those of the average person. With that in mind, perhaps we all should be embracing Jefferson’s revolution every generation.

Leslie Gelb? Why not just have Netanyahu decide the fate of the revolution?

Ellen Dibble says the truth:
“I should say that a great deal of German culture that I love so much is actually Jewish. It is Germanic in the sense of being part of German culture, but it is Jewish. (I’m getting dizzy. I’m going out for a walk. I’m waiting to hear why my DNA has cursed me because of my ancestors about 3,000 years back, or blessed me. But I know about mathematics and see that for family trees to be complete, you get a shape like this, and you’ll all find you are descended from Alexander the Great or Abraham or … (starting 1870)
——————————————– begat 1
……………………………. begat 2
………………… begat 3 (60 yrs)
………….. begat 4 (80 yrs)
…… begat 5 (100 yrs later)
…. begat 6 (120 yrs later)
. (me)”

Dear Ellen:

It looks like you are one of the best of writers congregating on this blog and exchanging their observations in a GERMANIC tongue.
It is the fusion of the Germanic and Jewish genes which produced the outstanding phenomenon of the North Atlantic civilization.
I advised Michael to plumb Germanic genius in the second hour but Diane is Jewish with a German nobility name

Let’s try to understand why Germanic peoples and Jews are so advanced that others are ready to chop them to pieces. For starters, it is more complicated than just Abraham, Alexander from Macedonia or Chenguiz-han.

In a month or so, Jews the world over will celebrate the achievement of their freedom from an oppressive Egyptian regime some 5000 years ago. It is amazing to think that this year, the Egyptian people themselves may celebrate their own, parallel liberation!

I hope and pray that the fruits of liberty will bring the two peoples into closer relationship.

It looks to me that just 2 to 3 people answering each other on this board..boba bowee

I hope we have learned the lesson now that we should have learned from previous experiences, over and over, since the end of WWII. People in these countries will in the end decide what government to have. If the U.S. attempts to install or prop-up a government because we think it is in the interest of the US., something that has historically usually meant corporate interests, in the end it will come back to bite us in the the ass when the unstoppable tide brings in a government that now has reason to be hostile to the U.S. as a country. A lesson that we are already fated to learn again when the U.S. occupation ends in Iraq and Afghanistan and those countries truly choose their own government. The best thing the U.S. can do as far as Egypt goes is to stand clear.

So many countries in turmoil all around in this one area. Does anyone ask why???? Is there something else going on behind the curtain. The Muslim brotherhood is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. I bet this little uprising spreads further. How about Europe are maybe the USA. I heard on the news a man in Chicago at a protest rally calling for revolution here in USA just like the ones over there, against our government!
Dangerous times.

I just heard Hillary Clinton utter: “We want to see a real democracy that reflects the vibrancy of Egyptian society . . . .” Total baloney. Why? The U.S. rendition program with Egypt is an unprincipled program of torture. Torture does not reflect in any shape or form a vibrancy of any society. See Human Right Watch report:
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2011/01/31/egypt-impunity-torture-fuels-days-rage

Egypt is currently a client state of the U.S.: aid for pacification and status quo in the Muslim world.

I am still wondering about the super-race of German extraction dominating the earth and being challenged by non-Germans. I have not read Wagner, but I do recall reading about one wave after another pouring out of the vast Russian steppes into the Roman empire, each with separate genes. Germany did not congeal into a nation until after Napoleon, after the Austro-Hungarian empire, being part Spanish. Excuse my spotty history. But the word for German in Russian is nemetz, which as I recall means something like outsider, “one who does not speak,” or “one who does not speak our language.” Or maybe “man without a country,” person of no place.” And the word German? Means cousin or relative, related, “germane.” And Deutsch as in Deutschland? I think it means folks, us folks, but I’m not finding my sources.
If you were a reader of Arabic, you would probably think all the great writers and thinkers were Arabic, and all the great people were those they wrote about and extolled. Likewise if you were a reader of Chinese. Likewise Russian and Slavic languages. I’m tempted to be facetious and say since I don’t know about African history and language, clearly they don’t have anything of any merit.
A nice short history of Egypt and the Muslim Brotherhood is in “A Traveller’s History of Egypt,” by Harry Ades, published by Interlink in 2007, from about page 350. I’ll try to do a synopsis.

In 1973 Sadat took the Sinai from Israel, “proclaimed the war a glorious triumph, despite … about 5500 killed. Even so, this … exploded the myth of Israeli invincibility… the oil states clamoured to supply Egypt with financial and military aid.”
“Renewed relations with West after the October War [led to} infitah, the 'open door' policy ... June 1974, offered incentives, Western technology, and Arab oil money to revitalise the private sector. It was hoped this would liberalise the market, reverse the suffocating centralisation of the Nasserist economy and pare down the serpentine bureaucracy..."
"Neither did infitah solve the problem of mounting foreign debt nor provide food for a population fast approaching 40 million people. Where Egypt had for centuries been the breadbasket of the world, it now had to import more than half of its grain. High inflation had forced ... subsidies on basic consumer goods... The [IMF] [made Egypt squeeze its people]. The instant and violent reaction from the people rocked the regime. Riots broke out in Cairo, Alexandria … 80 people were killed and 800 injured. Such scenes had not been seen since the riots of 1952, which was also the last time that the army had to be called in to restore order. The government quickly backtracked, restoring subsidies…. Most also realized thhat proper foreign investment would not come until Egypt had peace with Israel.” Next, Camp David in 1978, and Sadat’s peace. In May 1977, the Arab Socialist Union was dissolved, but the new multi-party democracy “made it virtually impossible for real opposition to form. Sadat guaranteed his primacy by taking control … as the National Democratic Party (NDP)…” “Parties could not be constituted on a religious basis, but from the early years Sadat, the self-proclaimed ‘pious president,’ had encouraged the resuscitation of Islamic organisations.”
(Okay, so the internal dynamics of a religious group were recognized and encouraged. Remind you of anything?)

Continuing from Harry Ades’ book: “For a while, the militants kept a low profile. Some that had been arrested in the 1981 clampdown and released in 1984 began to reform secretly as Jamaa Islamiya (“Islamic Group’), under the tutelage of the blind Sheik Umar Abd al-Rahman [he who is in prison for life I believe due to his part in the first World Trade Center explosion], the mufti of Sadat’s assassins. Others, like the physician Ayman al-Zawahiri, leader of al-Jihad, were hustled out of the country and urged to join the jihad in Afghanistan against the Soviets… The USSR collapsed and the militlants returned battle-hardened and fanatical, as convinced of their invincibility as of the justness of their cause.”
“The two extremist groups, Mamaa Islamiya and al-Jihad, unleashed a brutal terror offensive against the Mubarak regime between 1992 and 1997.”

I think that’s enough. You can probably remember the attacks on tourists? The bus of several dozens tourists shot down, for instance? Tourism is a huge percentage of Egypt’s GDP.
Why is Egypt so economically vulnerable? Mubarak has done a few projects towards enabling his country to produce more, participate more.
I obviously have to read a lot more.
But as usual, to say his regime was dictatorial isn’t the whole story; nor is it the whole story to say he is using oppression to keep down the Muslim Brotherhood.

down with dictators!

The symbolism of these protest is beautiful. Its a shame this rotten man is seen by so many Egyptians as an American puppet.

I hope the Egyptian people get the honorable leadership they deserve and are fighting for.

@ Heneker

I totally agree with you, but just a little historical reminder: The Egyptians of the Pharaoh’s periods(mostly Negroids)had nothing in common with the actual Egyptians(mostly Arabs)who invaded the region of north-Africa in the 7Th century.
This doesn’t make the core of your analysis less relevant.

“I am still wondering about the super-race of German extraction dominating the earth and being challenged by non-Germans. I have not read Wagner, but I do recall reading about one wave after another pouring out of the vast Russian steppes into the Roman empire, each with separate genes. Germany did not congeal into a nation until after Napoleon, after the Austro-Hungarian empire, being part Spanish. Excuse my spotty history. But the word for German in Russian is nemetz, which as I recall means something like outsider, “one who does not speak,” or “one who does not speak our language.” Or maybe “man without a country,” person of no place.” And the word German? Means cousin or relative, related, “germane.” And Deutsch as in Deutschland? I think it means folks, us folks, but I’m not finding my sources.
If you were a reader of Arabic, you would probably think all the great writers and thinkers were Arabic, and all the great people were those they wrote about and extolled. Likewise if you were a reader of Chinese. Likewise Russian and Slavic languages. I’m tempted to be facetious and say since I don’t know about African history and language, clearly they don’t have anything of any merit.
A nice short history of Egypt and the Muslim Brotherhood is in “A Traveller’s History of Egypt,” by Harry Ades, published by Interlink in 2007, from about page 350. I’ll try to do a synopsis.

Posted by Ellen Dibble, Northampton, MA, on January 31st, 2011 at 9:03 PM

In 1973 Sadat took the Sinai from Israel, “proclaimed the war a glorious triumph, despite … about 5500 killed. Even so, this … exploded the myth of Israeli invincibility… the oil states clamoured to supply Egypt with financial and military aid.”
“Renewed relations with West after the October War [led to} infitah, the 'open door' policy ... June 1974, offered incentives, Western technology, and Arab oil money to revitalise the private sector. It was hoped this would liberalise the market, reverse the suffocating centralisation of the Nasserist economy and pare down the serpentine bureaucracy..."
"Neither did infitah solve the problem of mounting foreign debt nor provide food for a population fast approaching 40 million people. Where Egypt had for centuries been the breadbasket of the world, it now had to import more than half of its grain. High inflation had forced ... subsidies on basic consumer goods... The [IMF] [made Egypt squeeze its people]. The instant and violent reaction from the people rocked the regime. Riots broke out in Cairo, Alexandria … 80 people were killed and 800 injured. Such scenes had not been seen since the riots of 1952, which was also the last time that the army had to be called in to restore order. The government quickly backtracked, restoring subsidies…. Most also realized thhat proper foreign investment would not come until Egypt had peace with Israel.” Next, Camp David in 1978, and Sadat’s peace. In May 1977, the Arab Socialist Union was dissolved, but the new multi-party democracy “made it virtually impossible for real opposition to form. Sadat guaranteed his primacy by taking control … as the National Democratic Party (NDP)…” “Parties could not be constituted on a religious basis, but from the early years Sadat, the self-proclaimed ‘pious president,’ had encouraged the resuscitation of Islamic organisations.”
(Okay, so the internal dynamics of a religious group were recognized and encouraged. Remind you of anything?)

Posted by Ellen Dibble, Northampton, MA, on January 31st, 2011 at 9:15 PM”

Ellen:

There were no Russian steppes then and since 20 years ago they are not Russian again.
I am talking about Germanic, not just German peoples.

I am also talking about modern times, not a distant past when great Jewish and, much later, Arabic thinkers emerged. But Jews are able to continue their amazing crops of geniuses since they started to cling to the Holy Roman Empire run by Germanic supermen.

PS Sadat’s army was utterly defeated in 1973, it did not take the Sinai, it was surrounded on the east bank of the canal and begged for water while Germanic masters played their chess game.
However, on the day of the Jewish fast the Egyptian soldiers (trained by Russians) did overrun positions of Israeli Jews. They did it following the Russian model when ten Soviet soldiers died per one German soldier during the Great Patiotic War.

Mubarack has tried to pacify the people, e.g., installing a new cabinet, rewriting their constitution, etc. It seems the people aren’t buying it; they won’t buy anything short of his stepping down (the protests continue; the protesters continue to increase in numbers, defy curfews, and so on). He will leave Egypt, and it will happen soon; his family is already in London, and they wouldn’t have gone as they did if he thought his pacifications were going to work (his son’s exit speak volumes, I think). His “holding on” I think indicates some attempt to make a transition so as not to create an opening for the likes of the Muslim Brotherhood or their ilk. I hope this is what his behavior indicates, anyway.

Events will be interesting to watch; it has been interesting to see how much modern media (social and otherwise) have played a role in these events. Egypt is in a fish bowl and the whole world is watching, which has given the people an edge and has backed Mubarak into a corner. The events will unfold (or unravel) fairly quickly in my opinion. We (the US) need to walk a fine line, strike some kind of balance in giving an appearance with respect to action, inaction, concern, and support.

To Ellen:

Slavic peoples are included in the Indo-Germanic tribes but they are far from the Germanic ethnos. Slavic peoples were mixed up with the Finnish people, with Tatars in the east and a lot of with Germans in the west (Poland, Czechy), with the Illirians and Turks in the south. 300 years ago Russian rulers started to germanize Russia but this effort was stunted by the 1917 revolution.
Egypt and Russia were Hellenized at some points of their histories and the Coptic Egyptians are still holding out…

I shudder from the comparison of Mubarak’s Egypt with the 1848 Europe. It is laughable as well but the chattering classes love to pass time and show off a bit.

I agree that Egypt needed peace and needs it now.
But some hotheads might try to vent frustration of the masses towards
more or less Germanized Israel; it may be some Egyptian pinpricks
in the body of the Jewish-run state. After all, not long ago Egypt did not call itself Egypt but the United Arab Republic.

To Ellen:

Thank you for helping me to elucidate some points.

Hellenized and Germanized is a kind of the same.
We should pay attention that they were happening two thousand years apart.

I am talking about ethNos.

I am talking about the Germanic civilization in the Northern Europe, about modern times, about modern Egypt which is ethnically different from the past. It is more Semitic, more Kushitic now…
You end with a poetic metaphor but, in truth, we disappear without a trace–eventually.