Flying is voluntary. If you don’t care for the security measures you can always drive or take a boat. Life is suffering, so why should airport security be any different?

Leftfield, Wisconsin.

TSA hasn’t caught a single terrorist since its inception and we’ve had numerous incidents where terrorists have gotten on planes. Whatever we’re doing isn’t working very well and as a frequent flier I think it’s bordering on being just as invasive (and illegal) as Bush era wiretapping.

TSA and Napolitano would say that the ends justify the means but that’s exactly the argument Bush used when he tortured people and tapped our phones.

The piece of this that worries me the most is that TSA now has the authority to impound and search personal computers (no doubt other electronics too (iPads, smartphones) without a warrant.

I’m flying out of JFK next week and will go through the scanner but I’ll be darned if I’m letting any of those folks seize my MacBook Pro.

Zeno: I’m pretty sure the $10K fine and imprisonment will be debunked on this show. I’m not sure where that meme started but I doubt its true or if it is, it will change.

There have been many hysterical folks posting in the past week (“don’t touch my junk” etc.) but the majority of frequent fliers like me go through the scanner and get where they’re going. I’ll go through a scanner at JFK next week and the entire process will probably go smoothly for me. However, if a TSA agent attempts to touch my junk where junk = personal electronics, I’ll make a stink.

TSA seems like an incredibly blunt instrument to me, blunt in every sense of the word, I’m sorry to say.

An airline ticket is a contract. When we buy one, we relinquish certain rights . . . junk is up for grabs, if you set off an alarm.

If no alarms go off, there will be no x-rays, no groping. 

Citizen Threatened with $10,000 Fine for Declining a TSA Groping: http://nevadanewsandviews.com/2010/11/18/citizen-threatened-with-10000-fine-for-declining-a-tsa-groping/

No right to leave terminal after declining TSA screening?: http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g1-i10702-k4054163-No_right_to_leave_terminal_after_declining_TSA_screening-Air_Travel.html

“Apparently, passengers do not have the right to leave the security area if they decline the new security procedures according to a ruling by the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals:”

“Requiring that a potential passenger be allowed to revoke consent to an ongoing airport security search makes little sense in a post-9/11 world. Such a rule would afford terrorists multiple opportunities to attempt to penetrate airport security by ‘electing not to fly’ on the cusp of detection until a vulnerable portal is found.”

SteveV: I disagree about short memories. I was on a plane on 9/11 (we never left the ground) and as soon as flying started again I was on planes twice a week. There are reasonable ways to do security and unreasonable ways and while I’ve never had issues with TSA before this, what they’re doing here is crossing a line.

I think your memory is short: the underpants bomber was screened. The best intelligence that would have stopped him came from his father at an embassy and was ignored. Same with the 9/11 terrorists: many of them had expired visas and that should have stopped them as they entered the system in Portland, Main.

If we had put as much energy into intelligence sharing as we seem to be in checkpoint scanning we might have stopped the underpants bomber.

Bill of Rights – Amendment V
No person shall … nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

ruling by the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals: “Requiring that a potential passenger be allowed to revoke consent to an ongoing airport security search makes little sense in a post-9/11 world. Such a rule would afford terrorists multiple opportunities to attempt to penetrate airport security by ‘electing not to fly’ on the cusp of detection until a vulnerable portal is found.”

Is there a problem here? The BOR is just some old tattered rag when put up against TSA?

RICHARD,

Oops!

Last night, I heard an “expert” of some sort; he was the source of my (mis)information, but apparently, he didn’t know what he was talking about. Sorry.

Soon, we’ll all know the facts.


“There can’t be many people who enjoy the new safety measures, but It sure beats blowing up in the middle of the Atlantic.”

the funny thing is, that terrorist look for the biggest boom and will try to beat these scanners and if they do, stay tune for even more evasive measures. As well benefit of these machines have so far been very little to non. But an former Bush official who is marketing these scanners is making loot.

Check the stock of the ones behind them

Michael: Actually, that’s not true, Al Qaeda’s plan is to take us down with many small “cuts.”

I believe the saying is: bleed the beast.

If they can cause us to create bottlenecks in our travel and lifestyles they’re succeeding.

Warren, Connecticut

The TSA should absolutely set up two separate lines on Wednesday, one marked “Slow line for self conscious paranoid puritans” and the other marked “Faster line for those with intact self-esteme, mellow hippies, and those who always wanted to be art models.”

This protest is inane. Why do I suspect that these very same people wil be the first to accuse the government of not doing its job when another airplane-based terrorist disaster happens?

The “security” measures used at airports are little more than cosmetic. I hate to use the term, “feel-good” under the current circumstances but that’s the gist of it. If the TSA was actually serious they’d use profiling and PC be damned. I think they should, and for the record I’m a liberal.

I ask myself “How did we get here?” Obviously the answer is 9/11 and Islamic Terrorism. But then I ask myself “How did we get HERE with 9/11 and Islamic Terrorism??

Until we can answer that last question, we are doomed to go through more attempts – some futile, some worthy – for ever and ever.

I’m amazed how easily people roll over and submit to this crap. It kind of explains Germany circa 1933.

“All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.”

-Thomas Jefferson

twenty-niner, I think your comment about rolling over to submit applies to our accepting that our congressional representatives are bought and paid for by corporate interests. Who is your senator schmoozing with today? Who is your rep? Are they talking to one another trying to chart a path into a sustainable future? If so, why not make it easily available on the internet to all constituents?
This business about scanning and searches goes way, way back. In the 1980s, when I worked in a library, there was a scanner/searcher who went through all purses and briefcases coming and going. Nowadays, when I do work at courthouses, there is ALWAYS a scanner, actually BOTH a scanner and a couple of police on hand to do the groping. Usually there is a metal bar built into the soles of my shoes that sets off the alarm.

Richard,

You are right, I seldom fly. I’m a Tub-O and the whole thing is uncomfortable for me. I guess I’ll have to admit that I don’t have the answer to this one. I’m afraid to see what happens to us all after another successful large attack. BTW, I see no reason for confiscation of electronics, unless of course they are filed with C4!

Michael,

I have two little girls of my own, and that would be very difficult to endure. Again I must admit to not having the answers. What is the best method that balances safety with human dignity yet accounts for the power and influence of the 24 hr news cycle.

Leftfield, Wisconsin

“twenty-niner, I think your comment about rolling over to submit applies to our accepting that our congressional representatives are bought and paid for by corporate interests.”

Are you referring to Michael Chertoff?

From the Boston Globe earlier this year:

Since the attempted bombing of a US airliner on Christmas Day, former Homeland Security secretary Michael Chertoff has given dozens of media interviews touting the need for the federal government to buy more full-body scanners for airports.

What he has made little mention of is that the Chertoff Group, his security consulting agency, includes a client that manufactures the machines.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2010/01/02/group_slams_chertoff_on_scanner_promotion/

I am currently writing my dissertation which focuses on the implementation of homeland security policy. In the process, I have been shocked to learn how much of security policy is aimed not at actual security but creating a sense of safety. If this is true: then airport patdowns are either (a) actually a legitimate policy tool for generating safety or (b) a policy tool that has failed to generate a sense of safety or (c) a complicated balance of both. Just saying.

More from Scientist’s letter:

“Moreover, there are a number of ‘red flags’ related to the hardware itself. Because this device can scan a human in a few seconds, the X-ray beam is very intense. Any glitch in power at any point in the hardware (or more importantly in software) that stops the device could cause an intense radiation dose to a single spot on the skin. Who will oversee problems with overall dose after repair or software problems? The TSA is already complaining about resolution limitations; who will keep the manufacturers and/or TSA from just raising the dose, an easy way to improve signal-to-noise and get higher resolution? Lastly, given the recent incident (on December 25th), how do we know whether the manufacturer or TSA, seeking higher resolution, will scan the groin area more slowly leading to a much higher total dose?”

http://www.scribd.com/doc/35498347/UCSF-letter-to-Holdren-concerning-health-risks-of-full-body-scanner-TSA-screenings-4-6-2010

The TSA has not done a damn thing to make us safer.
Show me any evidence that this is working. It seems to me that to many of these officers are under trained, are abusive to the point were you have to wonder about their mental health, and this whole thing is nothing more than theater to make us think we are safer. Judging by the comments that support the TSA’s actions it seems to be working.

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. – Ben Franklin

Jeffe, Ben Franklin, They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. – Ben Franklin

But Awlaki et al have in mind disrupting not “a little temporary safety” but CLEARLY life, limb, and pursuit of happiness, all in one flash. That’s a LOT of PERMANENT safety.

“Of course if it is a 65-year-old woman like me, the grabbing has a totally different meaning, i.e., that people my age can have an excitable bladder.
So.”

TSA pat-down leaves traveler covered in urine.

http://www.cfnews13.com/article/news/2010/november/175586/TSA-search-leaves-man-flying-to-Orlando-soaked-in-his-own-urine

I fly frequently, and I have no problems patting down or metal detectors (I’m not confident of the new X-Ray body revealing machines because of the radiation concern) if that makes even 1% more safer air travel.

Those who oppose scanning/patting down any kid/pregnant women/elderly, have forgotten an attempt by a terrorist to bomb an El Al flight.

Those who want to refresh or learn about it, may choose to visit the following URL

http://articles.latimes.com/1986-04-19/news/mn-508_1_london-police-arrest

May be this time, would be a disabled person / kid / elderly or a heavily pregnant woman.

Sam Wilson,
Boston, MA

With apologies to Alfred Lord Tennyson…

In Sensorium

With mighty wands and scans we watch,
And trust begloved fondling paw.
Our nature, dread in truth and law,
With daring, peek upon your crotch.

Location: Bedford MA, listening live on WBUR-FM

Why do I have to still take off my shoes to go through the scanner?
maybe they should sweeten the deal by allowing people to keep there shoes on if they choose to go through the body scan.

I don’t understand what people think the TSAs are going to see in the body scans. We all have the same parts, and speaking as an overweight person myself, I hold no fantasy that my clothing disguises the fact that I carry too much weight. If you really don’t want to be scanned, feel free not to fly, but I really don’t want to be held up for hours because people are vain.

Watertown, MA

What about using explosive material sniffing dogs instead?

Complete security could not be achieved even if everybody was naked

I don’t understand what people think the TSAs are going to see in the body scans. We all have the same parts, and speaking as an overweight person myself, I hold no fantasy that my clothing disguises the fact that I carry too much weight. If you really don’t want to be scanned, feel free not to fly, but I really don’t want to be held up for hours because people are vain.

Watertown, MA
Posted by Liz Oppenheim

RADIATION! SKIN CANCER! DEATH!

Read a medical book or two.

The guest is wrong about the new scanners detecting the underwear bomber. A March report from the GAO found that such scanners might not have detected the hidden explosive used by “underwear bomber” Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab in his failed Christmas day attack on a Northwest flight from Amsterdam to Detroit last year.

Of course, all you need to do to avoid the heightened security is to start your trip – innocent or not – at a smaller airport than only has the metal detector. I fly seldom enough that the scan doesn’t bother me. But what about people with, as one of my friends has, two replacement knees?

The guest is wrong about the new scanners detecting the underwear bomber. A March report from the GAO found that such scanners might not have detected the hidden explosive used by “underwear bomber” Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab in his failed Christmas day attack on a Northwest flight from Amsterdam to Detroit last year.
Posted by Jim

Don’t worry. They will keep lying over and over until you believe it.

I have a medical device implanted in my chest and can’t go through scanners( i’m 42). I’ve been getting the full body pat-down for years in full sight. The TSA guys have always been good and try hard not be invasive. Its no big deal.

My wife and I fly a lot and we appreciate that security is helping to keep us safe. Prior to 9/11, security was a joke as evidenced by the ease with which these planes were hijacked. Since then, TSA staff have been quite polite and they have carried out their procedures – even the pat downs- professionally, with courtesy and apparently effectively. Most of us don’t mind exposing our bodies to health professionals, why not security professionals?

Ellen @ 9:09
They are gov. EE’s but they are second tier without typical fed benefits and lower wages. Bush saw to that, I think it was done that way to make it easier to push the new program through since it was cheaper that way.

I will go in my bathing suit if I have to travel…LOL….. seriously this whole thing is stupid…..simply put: civilization is by definition a big soft target and the only way to protest it is by making friends and by making abhorrent behavior unpopular; in other words get professionals out there that can spot, via interview, possible bad guys.

Good survey of the issue with lots of links:

Airport TSA Body Scanner Health Concerns

“Unsafe X-Radiation Exposure to Workers and the Population

Xray scanning at the airport poses a health threat to the population. X-radiation is a known carcinogen. Radiation from the the airport xray machines is unsafe because it is unshielded, unregulated and unmonitored.”

http://open.salon.com/blog/jeffrey_dach_md/2010/11/22/airport_tsa_body_scanner_health_concerns

The $10,000 fine is useless in deterring terrorists from probing the airport security because these people want to kill themselves. Getting fined is the least of their concerns.

Can I just fly naked and avoid the potentially unsafe x-rays and groping?

Why not use bomb sniffing dogs instead of a pat down? They have the ability to sniff parts per billion, have none of the psychological/sexual baggage that people(flyers and psa agents) have and who hasn’t had their crotch sniffed by a dog? Plus no salary/ benefits/overtime/holiday pay etc.
I guess we might have trouble with folks who are dog phobic…

No, people in the United Kingdom have been accepting the loss of their natural rights for decades. The general European model is that the state is the definitive unit of society. Here in America, the individual is supposed to be what matters.

Springdale, AR

If we had some evidence that this was really working I might be more willing to subject myself to this type of scrutiny. As it is, I just feel like the terrorists are winning because they are causing us change our lives and in effect to terrorize ourselves.

My husband and I had a discussion about these new procedures the other night and at the end we started planning out the best way to drive long distances with small children. We want to visit family in California but we don’t want to put our young children (3 and 5 years old) through this kind of a security screening.

Broken Arrow, Oklahoma

From IVN, Independent Voter Network, at http://www.caivn.org/article/2010/11/17/third-party-and-independent-activists-united-opposition-full-body-scanners-and-en
“From the very beginning, opposition to the scanners made for strange political bedfellows: the American Civil Liberties Union and the National Rifle Association were early opponents of TSA plans to deploy the scanners throughout the country. The breadth of the opposition is even more apparent when one considers the positions of third party and Independent political activists. Independent, Green, Libertarian, Pirate Party and Constitution Party activists are united in their opposition to the TSA’s new security protocols.

“Mary Starrett, the Communications Director of the conservative Constitution Party, published an early and robust diatribe against the scanners in late January. Pulling no punches, Starrett argued that:”

Hey airlines. You are the ones who are going to take the financial hit. Start downsizing now.

More from the IVN site: “In a Quinnipiac University poll from January 14th, 2010, 63% of respondents stated that the government’s anti-terror policies put too much emphasis on protecting civil liberties and not enough on ensuring national security, and a whopping 84% supported more widespread use of airport body scanners. The TSA obliged and, over the course of the year, installed and unveiled new full-body scanning machines at airports across the country in at least two different waves, one this spring and another in late October.”

Starrett argued: “’X-rays zapping us at airports and government buildings across the country . . . are being touted as another small step toward a more secure America. In truth, they represent a giant leap toward slavery.’”

“Starrett elaborated a series of arguments that are by now familiar to anyone who has been following the controversy. They are unconstitutional and violate the Fourth Amendment. They likely pose a significant health risk, and they represent an unreasonable breach of personal privacy.”

We must compromise. We must compromise. How many times must we give up a little more of our rights in the name of security? The right in question is the right to privacy. It’s true that travel isn’t guaranteed in the Constitution, but U.S. law doesn’t ennumerate all rights. It covered only the ones that the Founders wanted to identify specifically. We have rights as human beings that go beyond what the government recognizes.

Springdale, AR

That caller Marti is pitifully ignorant of the safety concerns.

Offering the option to take a bus or a train is absurd. Once trains become as popular as flying, they will become targets, and we will be subject to the same invasive searches.

Cambridge, MA

One of your guests stated the ‘the terrorists have caused these virtual strip searches’. That is simply false. The choice to conduct these invasive searches is the government’s. I will not trade my personal dignity and liberty for so-called safety.

If the TSA felt this enhanced pat-down was so important to our safety, why didn’t they impose it earlier instead of waiting until October 2010. Why don’t they scan and/or pat-down everyone? Hand inspect or scan *every* piece of luggage? What about air-cargo?

Please address the patently unfair and frankly dangerous exceptions for Muslim head gear from the enhanced patdowns.

This is ridiculous. So heroin smugglers will swallow their “cargo” or put it in their anus, but a terrorist won’t?

Can’t wait till we all get those searches.

Also, I thought this was an important aspect:

A typical dental X-ray exposes the patient to about 2 millirems of radiation. According to one widely cited estimate, exposing each of 10,000 people to one rem (that is, 1,000 millirems) of radiation will likely lead to 8 excess cancer deaths. Using our assumption of linearity, that means that exposure to the 2 millirems of a typical dental X-ray would lead an individual to have an increased risk of dying from cancer of 16 hundred-thousandths of one percent. Given that very small risk, it is easy to see why most rational people would choose to undergo dental X-rays every few years to protect their teeth.

More importantly for our purposes, assuming that the radiation in a backscatter X-ray is about a hundredth the dose of a dental X-ray, we find that a backscatter X-ray increases the odds of dying from cancer by about 16 ten millionths of one percent. That suggests that for every billion passengers screened with backscatter radiation, about 16 will die from cancer as a result.

Given that there will be 600 million airplane passengers per year, that makes the machines deadlier than the terrorists.

Tom, please mention that Michael Chertoff, former Secretary of Homeland Security, is the first person to have championed the use of these scanners and his company currently represents the makers of the scanners.

For those of you who believe that traveling on an airplane is optional, that is not true. I travel several times a month and not one of those trips is optional. Many people travel for work, including the thousands of flight attendants and pilots. We shouldn’t have to expose ourselves to radiation and being seen naked by a stranger or being rubbed by a stranger in public. It’s outrageous.

Winchester, VA

We’re at war. This is exactly the message that the Party used in “1984″ to justify totalitarianism. We are in this war to defend our liberty. That’s what we were told in the beginning. Now we’re sacrificing our liberty to maintain the war.

Springdale, AR

On the subject of profiling…

What is the typical profile of a TSA employee?

Who on earth derives job satisfaction from, and goes home content at the end of each day, after patting down — enhanced (!) or not — numerous people for hours & hours?!

Brookline, Mass.

We’ve entered the realm of a bad sci-fi movie.

I have listened to the comments of the angry flyer last week that started all this fuss. He said “it would be (a sexual assault) if you weren’t the government”. I think all this controversy is anti-government tea-party nonsense that is so trendy these days. If you want to fly, you have to follow the rules. Period.

If a terrorist wanted to kill a lot of people and disrupt travel for weeks, wouldn’t they just bomb the line of people waiting in the TSA line?

The TSA hasn’t made us safer. Finally, people have reached their tipping point and are pushing back against the pointless procedures. Hooray!

Boston, MA

Conrad, do you recall the multiple train attacks/bombings in Spain a few years ago? Or the multiple attacks on London’s subways a few years ago?
If we take to the rails, then there will have to be scanners at every railway station. And people will try to jump on roofs, etc.
I don’t think the buses are well screened vis-a-vis travelers, either. But then we bus-riders are not a big money-maker for the US economy (tax-base).

I am ambivalent about the new security points. If we don’t want the security that is offered we need to exempt the airlines’ responsibility for safety and put up with more risk. I am willing to do that.

My complaint is that it feels like we are throwing money at high tech solutions that don’t reasonably improve our security. This applies to other efforts to address national security. It is not sustainable.

Thanks,
David White

I’ve had the pat down three times in the past month because I’m wearing a leg brace due to a knee injury. I didn’t find it to be very intrusive, but it didn’t make me feel any safer flying. They use the back of their hands in “intimate areas”, which I doubt have tactile sensitivity to detect much. Interestingly, the thoroughness varied greatly among the three examiners, so I wonder about the training they receive.

TSA SHOULD BE PRIVITIZED!! IN PRIVATE BUSINESS Government employees do not have that fear.

The problem I have is that the response to security is way out of line with the threat level and/or recent incidents. How does the threat level compare against being killed on the way to the airport? Against drunk drivers? Against medical mistakes? Why do people think that attaining zero risk in flying should be goal when nobody is suggesting that is reasonable with anything else?

Furthermore, the other major problem is that the TSA hires goons that are power hungry and just plain rude. It might be different if there was some level of decorum to the process but there isn’t.

Nobody is talking about the cost of these procedures, or who is paying for their use. The machines cost 30 million? The personnel to run them cost as well. Who is paying for it? Is it the flying public or is it the taxpayer? I doubt you will see a sign on the scanner saying it is brought to you by the stimulus act! What is the cost benefit of these procedures? I would think a enhanced ID system would be better than enhanced screening in cost benefit returns.

TSA is a dream job for pedophiles and perverts.

The TSA said at first scans would not be saved, but they are being saved.

9/11 was an inside job.

World Trade Center 7 was a controlled demolition.

Montreal, Canada

To paraphrase Patrick McGoohan’s The Prisoner — “I am not a criminal. I am a free person. I will not be scanned, groped, irradiated, profiled, or intimidated. My life is my own.”

TSA has not made the case that the risks, which are real and serious, but very, very small, are worth the indiginity, inconvenience, and cost (both in time and money) to travellers and taxpayers. One is at much greater risk of death on the way to the airport than from a terrorist attack on any specific flight.

I may be willing to undergo the scan.

I am not willing to allow my child to be irradiated or groped by TSA. (She was already once thru a more basic pat down on a trip to grandma’s in Florida a couple years back, allegedly because her name is similar to someone on a list. I can’t imagine that a then-baby is a terrorist risk, nor is her teddy bear, or her baby booties.)

And I am willing to fly with her on a flight with pre-liquid ban security. The risk of terrorism on any flight is miniscule. Alert flight crews and passengers stopped the underwear and shoe bombers — we need more of those folks, not more scans.

Enough is enough. (Heck, enough was enough before the liquid bans.)

What will happen is that people will avoid airplanes and drive. Driving is more dangerous than flying. More people will die on the roads.

The effect of this attempt to make air travel safer? More deaths.

Springdale, AR

Hello Tom,

I have no problem with the pat-down as long as the TSA agent is professional and non-abusive. I will always refuse the back-scatter X-ray, since the actual dose is unknown to the traveler and I wish not to further increase my risk to melanomas. I will not submit to acquisition of body images. I work in a research laboratory and medical center, so I am at a slightly higher risk for some cancers, and I am adamant about protecting my privacy. Furthermore, I am not convinced that use of this device will be an effective anti-terror tool, considering the most recent tactic used cargo as a means to transport material. We need to think 2 steps ahead, instead of being completely reactionary.

Cheers,
-A. Boutte, Ph.D. (Nashville)

“I am not willing to allow my child to be irradiated or groped by TSA.”

Exactly.

But of course Muslim head gear is an exception to pat downs.

The police who screen the jury pools (and others) are indeed very polite, yet I know otherwise unflappable individuals who go great lengths to get ushered in the staff door rather than confront the zapper-gate and the team of police at the front door. I consider them greeters, and take a moment to chat if they have a moment. If I have set off the alarm, I talk to them about my earrings, my belt, my hair barrettes, try to figure out what’s going on. In other words, it’s a cooperative effort to make sure no tiny knives get in the building. I don’t know if chemicals and bombs are much of a concern, though we are beginning to have incidents of that type.

Exercise and right eating only take you so far. Some of us older folks would give our eye-teeth to get oooogled by the folks at the airport!

My objections to the process and technology are based ENTIRELY on my lack of faith in the _people_ doing the screening: the TSA employees I’ve interacted with have been as interested and engaged in their work as the lady at the RMV who hands me my license plate. They’re distracted, distractable, bored, and generally thoughtless. I didn’t trust the “security theater” before, but I tolerated it because the intrusiveness was below my irritation threshold; now people I don’t trust are groping me because I forgot to pull the pocket change out of one of my pockets. Heck with that !

“Security Theater”. Exactly what I meant when I previously called it “cosmetic” and “feel good”.

Americans, collectively, need to buck up and take a moment out of their selfish, self-absorbed lives to do something for their country. Intelligence only cannot be the answer. We are in 2 wars and facing unknown amount of threats to our country and our persons. Can’t we just give an iota of support for keeping our country safe. The only people who truly give to this country are the ones who serve in its armed services and the rest of us just sail along on their backs. The last thing we need is more money tossed at our military budget, a huge budget item already. We each need to accept this in support of our country’s ideals. It is a small thing to ask compared to the sacrifice our service members give on a daily basis. Ruth, Pelham, NH

I’m a very short (4′ 10″) late twenty-something female who flies a handful of times a year, usually with another short twenty-something female and every time I fly – for the past 5 years of so- a code gets written on my ticket -and usually my traveling partner’s as well- and when we go through security, they pull us aside and give us a thorough body/bag search.

Two years ago, some bad weather at LaGuardia ended up in a cancelled flight- on our initial trip thru security, we were searched. 24 hours later, when our re-scheduled flight was finally up on the boards again, we left the restaurant section and went back thru security- having never left the airport- and was searched AGAIN, by the same people, and came up as positive with some nasty chemical in my bag.

They called security over and searched me more intensely, and when I explained – somewhat angrily- that whatever trace there was in my bag probably came from the airport itself, I was then hauled off for still FURTHER questioning, almost missing my flight.

I never understand why, unless we fit some profile- I am blond/blue eyed, she is a redhead.

To the airlines: I’ve canceled plans to fly due to the ridiculous security theater at airports. To anyone else who’s done the same, I urge you to call your airline and let them know they lost your business and why. I did.

Western MA

Omaha, NE. I think that we are way down the wrong road. We have heard much about the UK approach which uses patdowns but also had trained inspectors, not a boondoggle on scanners, and was brought in to fight IRA and other terrorists. Or the Isreali system which uses trained people. The fact is we don’t train people well, we don’t put competent people in charge, and the TSA people are not very competent to begin with.

…I fly once or twice a year, once to Europe.
I’ll be blunt: the flying public needs an “attitude adjustment”, and the TSA folks need to do a better job at communicating: for example – they should remind each traveler to also remove all objects from their pockets.

“Security Theater”? I prefer to be patted down, remove shoes, take off belt, etc… over a possible disaster.
Let’s quit acting like spoiled brats – and get “with the program”!

@Dave in Boston: How true you are! It’s the same with Immigration, Healthcare, and Politics. This country does nothing for prevention. Only reaction after the fact. Objectively, maybe this is how we (American institutions) are trained to act because it’s so habitual? I’d love to see the TSA actually ban something BEFORE it does any harm and then say they told us so!

Why isn’t our government getting the newest, best retinal scanners. I’d rather be registered and scanned each time than radiation and physical pat downs.
Boston, MA
Posted by Marilyn

Don’t worry it’s the next thing. That’s what they want all along.

Let’s take a step back.

We’re trying to prevent murder. A murderer requires means, motive and opportunity. The means are cheap and readily available worldwide. Opportunities are endless – plug one hole and another opens up. Make flying safe and they’ll attack something else. We’re an open society. That leaves motive.

We can’t scare the jihadists because they are willing to die. What do they want? Us out of the Middle East. Let’s give them that. Let’s increase our car mileage standards, bring back the railroads, weatherize our houses, and get out of their deserts. It wouldn’t be as hard or as expensive as fighting two wars, and it would make our lives and our economy better.

HI, We returned from Istanbul via Amsterdam to Boston last Thursday. In Istanbul, everyone goes through a security line, shoes and belts off as you enter the terminal. Then after several passport checks, the passenger is interviewed as to any electronics you have and whether they were repaired there. You go through the regular scanner at the gate,and I, wearing an underwired bra, go through patdown. In Amsterdam, the plane was met by passport control, 8 officers, and they escorted a man off the plane and down the escalator. Thank goodness for security. Amsterdam questioned us also individually about luggage and electronics and I was body-scanned and had a chest pat-down too. Each time with a quick apology.
Both airport security agents expressed surprise that passengers are not also individually questioned at the gate in the U.S., besides the scanners and the pat-down.
Security is very obvious and they carry semi-automatics everywhere in those countries. They do it because they know that a suicide bomber wants to control when and where they die, and security procedures are there to thwart those plans.
Alix in Taunton, MA

Go on Youtube or Google Video and look up “Loose Change”.

9/11 was an inside job.

I don’t understand why there is so much reference to humiliation. Is it always humiliating for someone to touch us? Regarding the woman said that she felt like she had been subject to a gynecological exam, does a doctor’s examination humiliate her as well? I am concerned that there may be a powerful undercurrent of social stratification at play here. Perhaps we are humiliated when “those people” touch us, because those people are below us, and surely they are enjoying touching us. It would be great to hear from leading sociologists and psychologists on this issue.

Brannon, Sumner Iowa

Supposedly, the underwear bomber, is the impetus to this intensive airport scanning. The underwear bombers father is connected to US intelligence. A well dressed man escorted the underwear bomber onto the plane without a passport. This connection stinks of a scam.to high heavens.

I have a pacemaker for 3 years, so I have been subjected to TSA patdowns for this whole time, and I travel about 35% for my job. My experience is all over the map regarding the professionalism with which these pat downs are conducted. Some TSA employees are very professional and business-like while others are invasive to the point of being creepy. By this, I mean that it’s clear that they are savoring their petty authority and getting their jollies. The pat downs in these less professional situations seem to last longer than they should. There should be more uniform and stringent training for those performing the pat downs. There is no excuse for a lack of professionalism and detachment and respect under these conditions.

“I do not understand: why do the Police need just cause to search us but TSA can assume we are guilty and search us?”
Posted by confused

Oh please, we gave up that constitutional stuff a long time ago! What are you a Tea Bagger?!

This has nothing to do with politics- don’t make the mistake of comparing anger over the revocation of our freedoms to the temper tantrums of the Teabagger party.

Cambridge, MA

Caller nailed it. We are morons.

Theater is fine if the terrorists believe it. A lot of security is theater.
Do what it takes to keep is save.

“Conservative commentators have really run with this”.

I haven’t read anything about this, so let’s just assume that this is something which is now Beltway Narrative.

Tom, the less Charles Krauthammer you read, the more you know. George Will I think has a lick of sense, but all the other right-wingers spouting off on this are over-reacting to this because there is a black Democrat in the White House. The same thing done three short years ago would have people like Krauthammer praising the manly, get-toughness of George W. Bush.

A quick look at what these newly-minted “civil libertarians” (sic) were saying in the runup to the invasion of Iraq will reveal all.

If I were a terrorist, I would be putting all my resources into recruiting an elderly woman willing to stuff explosives inside herself. Even if she didn’t succeed, she would make today’s pat-downs look like child’s play. Getting all of us so crazy with fear we’re willing to sacrifice our dignity and freedom is the goal of terrorists. Where does this end?

I would like to hear some talk about “blow back” and how the wars we are in effect that.

Profiling will work! People associated with modern airline terrorists have a visual characteristic that is common. Come on. Search people who look like people who have tried to blow up planes. If a white Timothy McVeigh looking guy tries to blow up a plane then change the profile!!

TN

We have waged perpetual wars that have primarily impacted the working class poor in this country and now the rest of the American public is being inconvenienced by Full-body scans. Tell it to the families of the 4,429 dead American soldiers. Here’s an idea…Let’s bring back the draft so the burden of the wars we wage are shared by EVERY AMERICAN. How pathetic.

A few years ago I traveled a lot and flew in lounging pants, cotton sweater and leather sandals. This, I figured would ease my entry. But surprise– I got pulled aside repeatedly for hand scanning! Apparently there is a lower limit to the magnetic scanners. They expect to see something and when they get no induction, the scanner is perturbed. This calls for human interventions.

It is simple to put high-explosives inside someone. So the current body scans are ridiculous. If they cat-scan people, You can always hit the plane with an RPG.

My point is that the TSA is doing this only to induce terror and get Republicans elected.

Terrorist theater for the benefit of our coming police state.

Coming from Israel, where most would agree airport security is one of the tightest in the world. I had never encountered the same stubborn TSA procedures. I don’t mind getting the “pat down” I do mind the “mindless” way security screening is done. Traveling with 2 small children I’m dumbfound whenever I need to explain that 24 hour travel time does require enough food (as airline are cutting back on everything), or folding the stroller with no assistance.Terror has won when we all are exposed this kind of scrutiny and delays…
Thank you,
Karin, Newton, MA

How about getting out of Afghanistan? That and a Palestinian State. Those might be effective measures against terrorism.

What about the precedent? How about bus stations? Railroad stations? The entrance to the mall jewelry store? “We wouldn’t do that” is an argument that” doesn’t meant that the next administration or the next business owner would not do it.

You are also subject to full body search at Ben-Gurion.

These scans are RIDICULOUS and nothing more than fear mongering and a profit center for scanner manufactures (and a health hazard to boot)!

I am a freight forwarder by profession and spend my entire work day shipping high-end merchandise around the world via air cargo. What is not being discussed, and what the airline industry don’t want the general public to know is that people like myself each ship thousands of pieces a year on passenger airplanes. My crates go in the cargo holds UNOPENED and UN-INSPECTED of the same passenger planes that you are being humiliated, groped and radiated while boarded. Of the many hundreds of shipments I send every year, only about once to twice a year do I get a request that a crate be opened and inspected. Otherwise, all of my creates are shipped un-inspected!

I never open those crates when I pick them up from my clients. My clients could put a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g in those crates. So, while an absurd circus is going on with loading passengers (FOR SHOW!) almost nothing is done to check all those additional crates being loaded with passenger’s luggage.

The TSA and entire flight industry is aware of this issue/ dark secret. Where there is a chance for some company to make money manufacturing body scanners, they haven’t figured out how to profit from the security gap in the cargo hold so… the issue is simply ignored. It doesn’t exist. Yet..

Do all you want checking people’s underwear, sneakers and shaving cream but it won’t do a damn bit of good considering that there’s a bunch of crates sitting with the luggage that wasn’t inspected at all. Then there’s the issue of things like printer cartridges – are we going to ban those too? What’s next?

I predict that not too far from now we’ll be sending all of our luggage a day ahead then changing into paper hospital gowns at the airport and being strapped into seats, “for our own protection”.

So we all give up our rights and freedoms so that some keep theirs?

That makes no sense.

“Theater is fine if the terrorists believe it. A lot of security is theater.
Do what it takes to keep is save.”

George Peo,

The thing about security theater is that it makes you think someone is doing something, but it doesn’t actually work. The current theater is aimed at you and me, not terrorists, to distract us from how ineffective the TSA actually is.

After all, couldn’t someone just blow up the line of people waiting to get through security? That would cause chaos. What would we do then, have another security checkpoint? Wouldn’t someone just bomb the first one again?

Airport security should not be seen in a vacuum, separate from American policies towards the rest of the world. Why is America living in fear, what caused it, what continues to cause it? What can we do to change it?

People insist on being able to jump on a plane and fly across the country to go to a meeting and fly back that afternoon, for a few hundred bucks.

And then the Airlines are constantly going bankrupt and the service is terrible…

People should fly less, and pay more when they do. A more formal environment would make security easier. But we mass consume air travel and turn it into mcdonalds, complete with hazards.

The money they spend on machines, they should be paying people better, and hiring more and training them well so that security is not obviously stupid while you’re going through it.

Incidentally, you can be a vegetarian, convert your house to solar and bike to work, but a couple of flights on a plane puts your carbon footprint at thousands of times the global per capita.

I don’t know if anyone else has noticed this but the standard everyone points to is the underwear bomber who flew out of LONDON and how the patdown and or scan makes us safer. Now isn’t London one of those places that already was using patdowns and scanners and he STILL slipped by that method??? Also, since the 911 horror has happened, has anything occurred on domestic flights that our screening methods have prevented? All the terror incidents since 2001 have originated on international flights. Lets concentrate on safety and screening on THOSE flights and step it down a notch internally to what we had pre november 2010!
Posted by Kevin S

People don’t listen to facts. They accept the lies told to us as truths and so well it’s for our own good.

I fly for work on a regular basis. I cannot believe we need to even have this discussion in the face of terrorists threats. I am for full body scanners. Yes it’s not fun but as long as the screening is done in a professional manner without racial discrimination I am all for it for the alternative is unimaginable.

can we use dogs at all? We are pretty good at finding guns with metal detectors. the only other thing to look for is explosives right? Can’t dogs sniff out most explosives?

From Lee in Marlborough, Mass.

While the TSA claims that the newest procedures are absolutely necessary to catch a very, very, very small chance that someone has gotten through all of the other measures and is about to board the plane with a bomb or dangerous weapon.

The result today is that 100% of commercial airline passengers are being forced to choose between a visual strip search, sexual assault, or not flying commercially.

This is not a choice that people in a free country should be forced to make.

These new procedures are the end of the line. First the Federal government takes over passenger screening. Then it’s belts and shoes. And later 3 ounce bottles. And now this. Oh, and printer cartridges.

The TSA may make recommendations, but it’s ultimately the job of all of us to decide whether we should employ Federal government workers to implement those recommendations.

Instead of the ridiculous procedures in place today, let’s direct our government to develop and implement other procedures and techniques that do not abuse passengers.

There are other alternatives. Trained sniffer dogs are the most effective way to detect explosives. The military uses them. Better than the xray scanners that are a cancer risk. And, dogs are non-invasive.
Michael Chertoff has been the leading promoter-sales pitch man for All-body Scanners. As a consultant he is making a fortune via the revolving door of government/lobbyists.

It seems the purpose of the new “regime” is not security, but behavioral conditioning and intimidation to create a compliant population.

“I am all for it for the alternative is unimaginable.”

To SA from Somerville, do you think that the TSA checkpoints make you safer? Do you get nervous standing in line with all the unscreened people, since any one of them could blow themselves (and you!) up? Why would someone go to all the trouble of getting a bomb on a plane, instead of just attacking the TSA line, or a mall, or a movie theater, and facing no screening?

Boston, MA

This new regimen illustrates what the people in charge believe. By screening every child, elderly, disabled and otherwise typical person they illustrate that the general public is the enemy of government and big business and cannot be trusted by authorities. Most of us are the “them” to their “they.” A secondary reality is that these controlling and demeaning procedures enhance symbolic power and make vast amounts of money for contractors and consultants. The whole thing is indicative of the great socio-economic divide between the “haves” and the “have-nots.”

I am a poor dependent in a wealthy family network. I never fly commercial. We go to general aviation facilities and board chartered and private planes, travel at our own schedule and convenience. It is only when we go out of country that we face any screening at all, and that for customs. The majority of Americans do not fly, at least not regularly. Fewer than a fifth have valid passports. Most people are too poor even to hop down to the Caribbean. Mostly it is the servants of the wealthy who fly, and if you were rich you’d want them checked and intimidated whenever possible.

I have an idea to satisfy everyone. Separate the flights to 2 types, maximum security and maximum privacy. I will get on the maximum security flights. Some may wish to get on maximum privacy flights.
We could then gather data on which are safer and make a data based decision on how much screening to employ.

Just a point – the threat we are talking about – blowing up an aircraft – is an extremely difficult, if not impossible feat to accomplish with items one can carry on his/her person. The amount of explosives that the Shoe Bomber and the Christmas Day Bomber were able to carry on their persons (80 grams of PETN) could not have destroyed an aircraft even if they were used perfectly. At worst, it causes a fire (which was extinguished in the case of the Christmas Day Bomber), or makes a hole in the hull of the aircraft – which could possibly lead to depressurization – but not catastrophic loss of a aircraft and all aboard.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8548021.stm

Yes, it’s scary, and some people would be harmed or possibly killed, but it is not massive scale of death and destruction that one imagines in the bombing of a plane.

Cambridge, MA

Here’s an idea – Stop worrying so much, everyone. The terrorists’ real aim is to terrorize us. They haven’t successfully hit us for nine years; that dope last year who blew his own genitals off certainly doesn’t count. So why are we all so frightened that we will accept any amount of wasted time and public indignity?

Focus time and money on intelligence gathering and collaboration among the different intelligence agencies. That’s the only thing that will really make us safer.

Buffalo, New York
I have an idea to satisfy everyone. Separate the flights to 2 types, maximum security and maximum privacy. I will get on the maximum security flights. Some may wish to get on maximum privacy flights.
We could then gather data on which are safer and make a data based decision on how much screening to employ.

AND OF COURSE THE EXCEPTION FOR MUSLIM HEAD GEAR TO PAT DOWN was also not discussed. Are you kidding me?

To the people who think profiling is a good idea: it is a great idea until your loved one is the target. I have watched my husband in a security line be the only one whose passport and tickets are thumbed through by two agents before he even takes his shoes off to go through the metal detector. He remains philosophical about it, saying they are just doing their jobs. I feel so angry that I want to scream.

Has the TSA seriously considered the non-invasive screening interview system that Isaac Yeffet, former Israel security chief for El Al airlines, spoke about on MSNBC last week as the first step to identifying potential threats?

If not why not & if so, is this a future possibility?

I do not wish to go through this invasive “search” just to get my 92 year old mother onto an airplane for her travel to FL. She has to fly non-stop because we have already experienced one flight where we were insured by the airline (with wheelchair assist) that they would get her onto her connecting flight, only to experience her baggage arrival without her. Fortunately she was okay but with memory issues, they had to send her to our airport via a two hour cab ride.

Concerned Caregiver

Hey?!! Is quite a bit of this all about men being afraid that their bodies might act without their consent when they are patted down by another male? In effect, is there some homophobia in this controversy??

I do understand mothers being nervous for their pubescent and early adolescent children. I remember even a doctor’s visit when I was in the eighth grade sent a “humiliated” chill thruout my whole body, even tho his touch was appropriate, and my mom was in the room. But, I had never been touched before with my clothes off, and I did feel humiliated in a way that led me, in my generation, to a mind-body split. What I’m saying is: kids are different in their sensibilities than adults; too few adults take this into account.

That said, what to do?

Israel has had excellent results with whatever system they’ve employed. How does it work? What are the costs (compared to ours if you include TSA et al)? How far in advance of your flight do you need to arrive at the airport?
Posted by Jim kearney,

Israel is a small country with a small airport. They have highly trained screening officers who ask questions and look for responses. If you act like you are hiding something, you are then taken out of line and searched. You could not do this at JFK or Chicago’s O’Hare airports, they are to big.

Profiling? Terrorists are much too smart for that now. What about that Canadian, who didn’t fit the profile at all?

There are all sorts of deranged Americans, working alone, with a grudge. If they were intent on blowing up a plane, they wouldn’t be caught unless they resembled former terrorists.

Al Qaeda is specifically recruiting people who don’t fit the profile.

ROB: Millimeter wave/ terahertz scanners use non-ionizing long wavelength EM radiation, thus there is no possibility of causing the DNA mutations that lead to cancerous cells. But you are correct that the Xray devices should be and probably already are scrutinized.

I have an idea for enhanced security. How about if TSA just strips and shackles everyone as they enter the airport. Their clothing and luggage would be scanned and put into the plane’s cargo hold. This would cut down on the need for individual scannings and pat downs.

Then, everyone can be led in and chained so that they cannot move about too much. If they put in stalls to chain people, they could fit more passengers per plane.
On arrival, the people could be led out of the plane, unchained, and re-united with their clothes and luggage.

I haven’t listened to the program yet, but I fear it will prove to be an hour of kvetching from prudes about bored security personnel getting a computer-simulated view of your oh-so-precious naked bodies, or about almost-certainly-unaroused security personnel patting down your oh-so-inviolate persons … grow up, America! The real issue is living in fear. Fear of the present but statistically tiny danger of terrorism, fear of your “privacy” being invaded (to me, privacy of body has much less meaning than privacy of thought) … there are so many ways that those powers who do not love us can take advantage of our fear.

From the Simpsons last night:
DICK CHENEY: Did the terrorists attack the United States today?
SMITHERS: No, sir.
DICK CHENEY: Aww.

Peter:

Sounds vaguely familiar…are there haircuts involved? Showers?

I would fly high privacy airlines as well. It would be the last place a bomber would want to be. Very few passengers would be aboard the flight, but all of the passengers would be the Courageous FIGHT group, from the fight or flight example. The cowardly FLIGHT is where the bomber would want to be.

I’ve been protesting the overuse (abuse) of security measures for years – in my own way, largely by myself. It’s good to finally see a viable protest against it,even if it is a backlash against Obama’s inneffectiveness.
The use of technology such as scanners is not only an intrusion on our liberties and privacies, but they are unnecessary, inneffective themselves, costly to purchase replace and maintain and possibly unsafe. The “promise” that only qualified personnel will view scanners or that private areas will be blurred is empty, because the TSA is largely unnacountable to the public and policies can and do change on a daily basis.
Patdowns are similarly inneffective and intrusive and are not an option.
The enhancement of security has not made us safer now than before 2001.
Now that the TSA (US goverment) scrutinizes every single person who passes through the airport gate, have they actually found more explosives and weapons than they did before? I don’t know that answer because the TSA won’t talk about it. My guess is no.
Have they confiscated more items that could be used as a weapon – like water bottles and nail clippers? Probably. I guess that makes somebody feel safer.

The best solution to keep us safer on airplanes is to solve the problem at the root. Find out why there might be individuals or groups who are desperate enough to consider trying to use explosives. For example we could reexamine our foreign policy and perhaps reevaluate which countries we ally ourselves with.
In the meantime, common sense is all that is necessary at check points, and that does not involve intrusive patdowns, scanners or interviews.

I liked the example of the (where is the security line) that was posted above. If the bomber sets off his bomb right at the point of passing through security, then will there be another line before that line, and then what? If you purchase a ticket TSA comes to your home and searches there?

Yes indeed, where is the security line.

It should be noted that North Korea will have no terrorist bombings this year, or next year, or the year after that. Draw your own conclusions as to the quest in the search for perfect security.

People should de-sexualize this. A full body scanner or a pat down is not sexual. Honestly, most people are fat and ugly. Most of us would not want to see others naked – screeners should be given hazard pay. Plus, during pat downs, trust me, they don’t want to touch your “junk.” Once again, 99.9% of us don’t want to see or touch your “junk.” We as a society however, do want to know if you had a bomb taped to your body that will result in us falling 30,000+ feet to our deaths.

Put things in perspective and stop being paranoid about your body. Its nothing special. Only in the US would people get paranoid about this… then go home, draw the curtains and watch pornography. Hypocrisy.

Until now I have been a adamant supporter of President Obama. Regrettably, I no longer will be. He is now guilty of violating his oath of office to “defend and protect the Constitution of the United States” – a violation of the Fourth Amendment. I hold him responsible because by simple executive order he could stop this outrage. This is not an issue of what the majority thinks is or is not tolerable. This is an issue of our Constitutional rights and protections against unreasonable search. It is unreasonable to subject people to strip searches (virtual or otherwise – tantamount to sexual assault) with no basis for suspicion of criminality. Such behavior would not be allowed if perpetrated by police on the street, at bus stops or train stations. It is not right that it should be perpetrated at airports. And make no mistake, the likelihood that a plane will be blown up if these methods are not used is paltry in comparison to the likelihood that these “security” methods will be abused. Be aware too that someone is getting rich from these security measures. The security industry will continue to push for more measures to feed its profits. The pressures towards more “security”, more subjugation of the citizenry, are driving us towards an authoritarian state. Apparently, our fears are successfully enslaving us – fears of terrorism magnified by those who would use those fears for their own ends.

Get over yourself. We have become a nation of whiners and look to blame everything on everyone and share no responsibility. Airport security isn’t perfect but it does provide some level of protection. We are a nation of laws and order that our military defends with their lives. If you don’t agree with a law seek to change it but don’t break it; and if you decide to break it be a big boy/girl and be prepared to suffer the consequence. The biggest problem with flying isn’t the TSA it is with the airlines that overbook, fly late, pack people like sardines and provide no creature comforts. Finally, I’m amazed at how such a trivial issue can gain so much attention so quickly because of the media.

The First Law of Ecology—”everything is connected to something”—apparently doesn’t apply to Americans… too inconvenient.

Umm…Have we all forgotten Amendment IV of our constitution?! The right of people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated…

I have never been arrested, I’ve never even thought about doing anything nasty on board an airplane or anywhere else for that matter. Why am I being treat as if I have.

And please, don’t give me the old 9/11 argument. I was in NYC then. I saw it happen. I also grew up in London part of my childhood with the IRA bombings in full swing. The world didn’t change, just American’s perception did.

And who are the people doing the pat downs? Have they had a full background check? How safe is it for my 6 year old daughter to be patted down by a complete stranger? Just because they have a uniform on doesn’t mean that they are trustworthy.

And the scanners? Safe, huh? So, why are there scientists saying they are not safe?

Sorry, but I’ll believe a scientist well before I believe the TSA. And there’s the rub. The administration meant to make us safe has mismanaged itself to the point that people don’t trust it at all.

Shaw’s arrest comes amid continuing national debate over the arrest and prosecution of Anthony Graber, who was arrested in April for posting a video of a traffic stop to YouTube. Graber was pulled over on his motorcycle by Maryland State Trooper Joseph David Ulher, who drew his gun during the stop. Graber was wearing a camera on his helmet. Days later, police raided the home of Graber’s parents. Graber was arrested, booked, and jailed. He has been charged with violating Maryland’s wiretapping statute, a felony that carries up to five years in prison. He has also been charged with “Possession of an Interception Device,” that device being his otherwise perfectly legal video camera

I sure wish all of you who so fervidly oppose these measures on the grounds that they are not effective would use some of that energy protesting the much-more damaging, way-more expensive, and no-less ineffective, use of our military in Afghanistan and Iraq. But I guess there just aren’t any good youtube videos to get you blood boiling.

Please ignore the previous post (@ 2:54 PM, it was an enter pressed bit too early)

“If they want to blow up a plane I’m sure they’ll come up with a bomb that can be swallowed or inserted elsewhere (like the drug mules) and that won’t be picked up by scanners or invasive pat downs. I’m not convinced these measures will stop them.”

So far I have never heard of any case where a suicide Bomber “swallowed” a bomb and was able to detonate it successfully.

Secondly, if you have 2 batteries and wires tied to your body regardless of the cavity or location, it WILL SHOW up during the X-Ray/Metal detector.

Sam Wilson,
Boston, MA

Wow! 278 posts and counting. Hot button issue?…and no usual politically partisan split. Opinions are all over the political map. The sheep are sure skittish when they don’t let us forget there is such a thing as a wolf…every day in every way. It is quite profitable, no doubt.

What I don’t see is the recognition that this is blatant government subsidy of airlines and commercial flying. The GOP (Group of Psychopaths) seems quite good with this, after all, it not only sucks up vast quantities of taxpayer money in the TSA operation, but is a boon-doggle windfall for the manufacturer’s of more fancy televisions with buttons…surprise surprise. And Chertoff has business relationship with these manufacturer’s?

C’mon people, Get Real! It is not only unreal political/security theatre, a lousy show we all pay dearly for, fliers or not. Just to have our human dignity and freedom shredded under our noses and in our pants! It’s just softening the sheep up for who knows what’s next? More breakdown of freedom and personality, charged off and paid for by us! Like it was the Jews fault for the holocaust!

Deficit reduction?…I guess it doesn’t fit in this agenda!

Let the airlines shoulder this cost! Factor it in to every ticket! It is bogus to charge the tax-payer. Let TSA monitor reasonable private efforts! After all, the FAA doesn’t maintain the aircraft and pilots currency…they monitor for compliance!

Let the airlines decide what is safe or not, and let them factor it into their cost of business! Hey conservatives!…you call this individual freedom! You’re nothing but a bunch of dis-honest socialists….pushing towards communism. Sick, sick socialistic psychopaths calling the shots. You’re good though…you’ve got people so confused they think it actually adds ANY measure of security while you destroy Americans’ freedoms under our noses and in our pants!

Let the airlines find out in the free market what works, and give Americans some choice for a change. Instead, government decides how they will spend OUR TAX MONEY FOR WHO’S GOING TO GIVE THE CORPORATE/POLS THE BEST YOU KNOW WHAT while they have their hands down our pants! Oh, I forgot, the free market doesn’t include the US population.

C’mon sheep!…how much more will you tolerate? The Group of Psychopaths is determined to find out.

Plan for continuing and accelerating break-down. Our children will never know how great the USA was….has-been.

“People with developmental disabilities often become adjitated and angry when touched or when situations involve the unexpected. How will TSA handle it if a person has developmental disabilities gets really upset?”

AND

“Finally, what happens if a child gets a fuzzy reading, or a rape victim? I’m talking about people who have already volunteered for the scanner..” –Heather

Heather, these are interesting points. I don’t see TSA workers as having any skills, training, etc. in how to handle these situations. I’ve seen many people with developmental disabilities who have extreme sensitivity to being touched (many have to be sedated when going to the doctor or dentist). I guess sedating a child/adult with certain types of delays/disabilities is one possible solution for the parent/care giver, yet I know this does not always work; and, how do airlines handle transporting people who are sedated to the point of being semi-conscious?

It sounds as though your son is able to handle the situation and that he is his own guardian; but, as you say in another way, what about those who actually need a care giver to be with them at all times and need the “patdown”? What about someone who is not his/her own guardian? I know a lot of people in this predicament.

I’ve seen police officers mistake people with cerebral palsy for drug addicts intoxicated in public, and they have considerably more training than a TSA worker. What about people who actually can not stand still, who twitch and flail (CP, effects from medications in people with Parkinson’s, etc.).

I am saddened by the number of supporters of illegal search and seizure we have in just this blog. How will this country ever achieve anything with so many sheeple willing to give ALL away for the promise of perfect security.

Give me liberty or give me death! Its not just meaningless words… and to give your freedom away is to spit on the grave of every individual that gave their lives for it.

I’m disgusted. I would rather die free, than live as a slave. We should live our lives with honor and bravery and protect our freedoms, if not for ourselves…then for the sacrifice of those who came before us.

Ben, I agree, and you’ve covered a lot of territory in a very succinct comment: we are being reactive (when we need to be proactive); our strategies seem to change after each possible attack is reported; and, we are not looking at antecedents as much as we should be with respect to why people become terrorists in the first place.

Flowen at 3:46 PM

Thanks, I was so focused on the other aspects of this I hadn’t really given any thought to who should be paying for it. I agree, the government should not be involved, except to regulate operations.

It is the responsibility of the Airline industry to do what is necessary to run their business without government subsidized security.

I have to assume this TSA flare-up is a distraction reflecting some overarching design. Since last week the network news has been useless. I do NOT need to see CBS, NBC, and ABC all leading with Americans complaining about scanners, then officials talking about scanners. If you want “lite” news, shows me more photos of English royalty.
It is interesting to think the government shouldn’t be paying for the scanners or screeners. The government will certainly be blamed if we suffer a terrorist attack.
Maybe the media is tired of trying to explain the Gordian knot that is the lame-duck legislature and its challenges. They flat gave up. They figure we can bellyache about our liberties and rights not to have our shadows flashed up on a screened-off screen at an airport; that’ll keep us busy till next week, sheep that we are.
But what is REALLY happening?

To Ellen Dibble:

“I have to assume this TSA flare-up is a distraction reflecting some overarching design.”

Perhaps, but the design is security theater designed to mask the slow erosion of our basic dignities, principles, and rights. I’m thrilled that some people are finally saying “enough!” to the pointless theatrics we’ve seen at airports and elsewhere. Where was the outrage when the patriot acts got passed, I don’t know, but I’ll take what I can get!

The issue of grope-downs and porn scanners may seem small, but I hope it’s the proverbial straw on the camel’s back. Think back to 2000, and consider all the ineffectual dances we have to do when we travel. It’s really a huge leap form then to now, and it’s resulted in no real increase in safety, it’s just conditioned us to uncritically accept any new authoritarian measure.

I’ll take real outrage over real creeping authoritarianism over royal news, NYC mosques, pop star foibles, or any of the other “lite” news we usually get. This is the real stuff!

Ed, Boston, MA

It’s obvious to me that these measures–pat-downs and body scanning–won’t prevent a terrorist action. So what’s the point?

TOM,

How do you figure that?

Many weeks ago, President Obama asked TSA to make security checks less intrusive, & he continues to do so.

Looks like you’ll have to find another fall guy.

“Many weeks ago, President Obama asked TSA to make security checks less intrusive, & he continues to do so.

Looks like you’ll have to find another fall guy.”

It doesn’t matter what duplicity comes streaming sideways out of his mouth. This is his administration and his TSA, of which he is ultimately responsible.

This comment highlights the problem with sycophants on both the right and the left, the prime enablers of a democracy in decline; A country now saddled with with gratuitous and unnecessary wars, banker bailouts without conditions, and a growing police state rife with no-fly lists, terahertz scanners, and Stasi-style pat downs on little children and old women.

And to all the craven cowards on this board who willingly and gladly submit to master at the first sign of a turban, honey bees kill more people than terrorists every year.

I am in a wheelchair, which apparently permanently subjects me to ‘enhanced pat-downs’.

I am also an American Citizen. I was born within a day’s horse ride of the site of the original Tea Party.

My understanding was that the Fourth Amendment to our Constitution protects us against “unreasonable searches and seizures [...] but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

Why doesn’t this apply? Is there an unspoken amendent to this text, “Unless we don’t feel like extending you these rights”?

Miami, FL

Vanity.

No one has the right to touch my genitals except my doctor or a female lover.

But, having been patted-down by British airport security personnel for years, I’m not too bothered.
IF a physical search means less likelihood of an airborne explosion, then I’m all for it.

Aside: I was taken aside by security @ LHR in 1989 to check to see if I was a drug mule because I was young, slim, + long-haired. I laughed but cooperated, knowing the truth: I never had a criminal record; never used narcotics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqsLnI1V3b8

“Many weeks ago, President Obama asked TSA to make security checks less intrusive, & he continues to do so.

Looks like you’ll have to find another fall guy.”

White House defends body scanners and pat-downs

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-pn-tsa-screening-20101122,0,1142982.story

Thanks Zeno

Anytime any of us can add any clarity it is worth our time!

As a nation, we are plainly losing the “war on terror.” Think of the $Trillions and lives we have lost and spent in 9 years in reaction to 19 suicide warriors, some box cutters, some flying lessons and 19 one-way tickets! Not to mention the fear, insecurity, and terror they have instilled in our population. And, our industrial complexes: military, financial, media go out of their way to stoke that fear. Why?

Aside from the mid-East terrorists, the biggest winners are those Corporate terrorists. Just like the healthcare/financial industrial complexes: the more we poor Americans spend on FALSE promises of security and health, the richer they get. All the while handing the terrorists victory on a gold platter. They are the same scoundrels who wrap themselves in the flag of patriotism: the Group Of Psychopaths (GOP leaders) enabling and legalizing CORPORATE CRIMINAL behavior!

We are frankly not much match for the terrorists who destroy our buildings with our own airplanes and fuel. In contrast, the Japanese at Pearl Harbor were amateurs. These terrorists are masters of the ancient martial arts: adept at using our power against us. All we have is the most power in the world. In the hands of psychopaths it is worse than useless. Our national reactions play right into the hands of terrorists. I only hope it is due to ignorance and incompetence and not design.

Prepare yourself for continued and accelerating breakdown on every level. Good luck to the 98%! We’ll need it!

What if the underwear bomber was brainwashed by the CIA to do what he did?

That question bothers me a lot more than “what if a second underwear bomber would strike”.

We are missing the point. It is the ideologies and the secrecy that is dividing us to the point where we want to fight each other. If we focused a fraction of the attention we put into security and military into education and diplomacy, we might actually be winning the war on terror rather than losing ourselves to it.

I recently flew from Boston, MA to Portland, OR. I brought my knitting on the flight. Not only would a circular knitting needle make an easy weapon (strangling, garotting, stabbing), I didn’t realize I also had very sharp fabric scissors. Yup, sharp scissors with 4 INCH BLADES!

How did I discover I had these? I landed in Portland and began unpacking my carry-on luggage – and found these much-deadlier-than-nail-clipper implements. TSA at Boston/Logan didn’t bat an eye, it seems.

The truth is, you can make a weapon out of SO many things you bring on a plane. A credit card, broken in half, makes for a very sharp edge for neck-slashing. A necktie is a noose, you could sharpen the edge of a bra underwire…so the pat-downs are yet more bread and circus, if bags are so easily slipped through with dangerous scissors (and toothpaste).

I’m not sure what the solution is other than armed and VISIBLE federalis on flights.

What about dogs?

Dogs can be trained to sniff explosives. Dogs can be used to augment traditional lines of defense, like x-rays and pat downs, and can not be accused of profiling.

Well-trained dogs roaming airports would make me pause, if I was a terrorist.

Currin

Anybody who has observed bureaucracies can tell you these guys aren’t concerned as much with saving Americans’ lives as they are about protecting their jobs. Instead of thinking creatively and intelligently they are layering on ham-handed overkill so eventually they will be able to say “We did everything we could and they still got through,” even though they are not carrying out basic analysis and screening. They have finally gone over the top and managed to accomplish what President Obama has not: unifying liberals, conservatives and radicals of all stripes.

Don’t want to “get with the program,” as one poster stated? Try passenger rail travel. Try personal automobiles. Try bus travel. One thing: All of the above are cheaper than air travel, no x-rays, and not bodily-intrusive. Let business travelers accept the risks (radiation, terrorism, crashes, pat downs, strip searches, etc.); that’s what salary compensation is about. There’s a whole economy behind the security industry, think computer anti-hacking companies. Money is poured into these security industries. Could the U.S. divert money into high-speed rail? Sure. The terror concern would continue, even with high-speed rail (think, Spain). But for millions of people, it would be potentially more economical, eco-friendly, and well, less intrusive.

Is it humiliating when your doctor sticks his fingers here and there? He has to if we want to stay healthy. We agree he is a professional. Isn’t this the same thing?

Why don’t we just ban Tea Party members from flying?

I just flew several times in the last two months with a brand new hip. I went through the body scanner and had a pat down. I preferred the scanner because it was much faster. The pat down took a long time, because she used the wand first and found ALL the metal on my body. The underwires and hooks of my bra, the buttons and zippers on my jeans, the keys I had forgotten in my pocket, the knee brace I did not even know had metal in it. The woman checking me was very respectful, but the process is, of necessity, SLOW. And any nervousness makes them slower and more suspicious.

What about when terrorists start placing bombs in their body orifices?
On top of the privacy concerns, i feel the policy is ineffective because there is no boundary to what a terrorist could do to his/her body. They could have surgery implanted bombs, for example. This approach is a waste of time!

I would like to know just how many potential terrorist attacks the TSA has prevented. One would think that a TSA screener who stopped another ‘underwear bomber’ from getting through security would be big news.

And I also hear that TSA employees DO NOT have to go through any scanners or pat downs when they report to work?

my neighbor works for TSA and his is a mindless thug as are most of the brutes they hire. so it’s okay for a complete stranger to manhandle and grope you? maybe, but would you want your mother or wife or sister to have a stranger put their hands in their underwear? all in the name of security, they claim. it’s for our safety, they tell us. and they claim that there haven’t been any incidents since the security has been increased.
after we say “yes” to this, then what?

Zeno: “It is the responsibility of the Airline industry to do what is necessary to run their business without government subsidized security.”

This is wrongheaded. The Federal Government/FAA runs almost all major commercial airports. They have to be involved not only in passenger screening but in passport control when folks come into and leave the country.

I’m not defending the job they do (or don’t do), just that it’s their job. Ideally, if they do their job right its better for us because their will be standards throughout the system.

Had the government been doing its job, many of the 9/11 hijackers would not have gotten on the planes; many of their visas had expired and should have prevented them from flying. The FBI should have seen a pattern in all of those guys taking flight training. Actually, a few agents did but it never went anywhere. Again, government ineptitude.

Had the government been doing its job, the State Department would have heard that the underpants bomber’s father had warned a US embassy about his son.

So, obviously, the government doesn’t do what it’s supposed to do very well. Screening at airports seems like a very blunt and ineffective tool when real behind the scenes intelligence is the only thing that has ever prevented a terrorist attack.

I’ll be going through a scanner at JFK next week and I have no problem with it. My concern isn’t like the many hysterical folks who think they’re being violated, my concern is that it’s not doing any good and terrorists watch the news just like we do and plan accordingly.

9/11: no more sharp objects
Shoe bomber – now shoes must come off and be scanned
Liquid bomb – no more water or shampoo on flights
Underwear bomber – full body scans and pat downs

Somehow the pattern doesn’t make us look very smart.

What’s next?

Warren, Connecticut

The video in this link is worth watching.
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/dont-touch-my-junk

I guess at some point there’ll be a terrorist with some plastique explosive device inserted up his bum who attempts to blow up an airliner…he’ll be dubbed “the rectal suppository bomber” or something and then we’ll be subjected to body cavity searches at airports…and the scanners–and by comparison to anal probes, the pat downs–will be just a dim and distant memory…on Holiday get togethers, grandpa can tell all of the children about the golden days when people simply took their shoes off and walked through metal detectors before getting on planes…it’ll be the future equivalent of “when I was your age, we walked a mile to school, in the snow, without shoes on…”

I wonder how long it will take the porno industry to put together a movie in which there is a TSA tete-a-tete scenario with a sexy ingenue over potential contraband she may or may not be transporting? ….boom shucka boom bow…

I kinda hope the next terrorist uses some sort of explosive device applied to his skin that has the effect of a fake tan and is detonated by a pinky ring…he’ll be dubbed the “Jersey Shore Bomber” and the world will be rid of that show once and for all!!!

Ed, on November 22nd, 2010 at 10:59 AM

It is all coming, just as we have metal detectors now in schools, and court houses and foot ball games, one will be strip searched everywhere one goes. That is how we control people (undesirables of course) and their movement. Part of the New World Order is the control of people, and exclude the unnecessary ones. As the unemployment increases and high unemployment becomes more permanent, people will start to migrate to towns and cities, increasing the over crowding and burden on resources. Thus the migrations of peoples must be limited. The plan is working as it should. Of course the war on terror has been mainly about jobs, if it were for security we would not have the borders to the north and the south still wide open. Secondly if we can presume to be able to stop the terrorists, then we can not stop the drug smuggling and the money transfers across the wide open borders.

Flowen and Zeno: Sorry but I don’t see it as a government conspiracy. One reason the federal government should be involved in providing security at airports is that they own much of the infrastructure. Airlines don’t own airports, cities, states, and the federal government do. Airlines lease gates at airports and pay for remodeling terminals but the rest of the infrastructure is owned and run by other entities.

The FAA, which runs most busy towers is a federal agency.

While I won’t defend the job the government has done in running airports and catching terrorists I don’t think it would be any better if it were farmed out to, say Xe Services LLC or some other private security firm.

Again, the government is bogged down, doesn’t communicate well within its ranks and has lots of room for improvement, but they have a state department and embassies and are connected all over the world.

If they’d get their act together and better use their connections I think they’re in the best place to both gather behind the scenes intelligence and do screening at airports.

I don’t support the ways they’re currently doing these things, those ways should change, but I do support paying taxes to have them do it.

“Flowen and Zeno: Sorry but I don’t see it as a government conspiracy.” – Who said anything about a conspiracy?

That is a false conclusion meant to obfuscate what I wrote. I stated that the limit of the governments involvement would be regulatory. Not excluded, and not total. The government should do what it does best, and the corporations should do take responsibility both financially and legally to operate their corporations at a cost that does not require government subsidies of such operations.

As you stated the government is running the airport operations FAA, and the corporations are handling passengers and cargo. Does the government now have to handle cargo and passengers as well? By action, It would seem to be their new frontier.

If the government is going to run the whole thing then nationalize it, and then feed the profits back to the general fund.

1. Brett and others, dogs cost $400 an hour. I heard this last week on a report by a New Yorker about bedbugs, and the dog was trained at the Harvard of dog institutes somewhere in Florida. You would think dogs wouldn’t need retirement benefits and vacation pay, but apparently they get way above minimum wage. Don’t expect a super sniffer at every bus stop between here and Anchorage. One dog is the equivalent of what, 40 gropers (pat-downers)?

2. Janet Napolitano was on the Charlie Rose show last night for the second half hour. She thinks risks are elevated, and to some extent bases this on the timing of the Christmas bomber, but other knowledge she has. She was saying that Americans are being “used” by the terrorists, so in other words look for the unexpected. Don’t profile.
She says there needs to be concentrated study on what causes individuals to radicalize to the extent they go overseas for months of training and then return to gratuitously (in my view) blow up fellow citizens.
I believe she spoke to the need to expedite the development of sensors that will pick up implanted explosive/toxic substances.
She certainly did not forget to mention what I’ve been complaining about (that planes get all the attention). What about buses (think London)? Metros (think London)? Trains (think Spain)? Malls? Police stations (think Iraq). Apparently she wants people to be alert in general.
She didn’t talk about dogs. At $400 an hour, who can blame her. There probably aren’t actually enough dogs and handlers to make a real dent, even if there were fountains of gold to pay for them.

Richard & Zeno

Wow! First time one of my posts was taken down…cause of what I said?…or how I said it?….here again cause I think it is important….without the end jab.

Important because, whether you want entrepreneurs to contribute to the solution of security problems (and I’m not talking Xe, or Blackwater; that’s a whole ‘nother subject that scares the hell out of me); or if you want the government’s infinite wisdom applied to the problem, the Status Quo, IT SHOULD NOT BE PAID OUT OF GENERAL GOVERNMENT REVENUE, ie our taxes. It should be borne 100% from airline’s revenue.

And again, I ask for JUST ONE GOOD REASON.

Just why should the government provide security?….just because that’s the way it is? Privatize the profits and socialize the costs?

Name one reason why it makes sense?…or as you point out…what makes them good at it?

I can name lots of reasons why they shouldn’t; CAN YOU NAME EVEN ONE GOOD REASON WHY THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD PROVIDE SECURITY FOR THE AIRLINES?…aside from the fact that they do? I can think of only one reason why they, the airlines, the airplane manufacturers, and the financial industry would WANT TO (can u spell FREE MONEY?), but NOT ONE GOOD REASON.

The main reason I see for the government to spend everyone’s tax money providing security is to keep the costs of air travel artificially cheap and volume high, which is socialism, veering towards communism. Chavez does a lot of that in Venezuela. Or is that a free market in your mind?

Or is it their unfailing ability and infinite wisdom in picking winners with our tax money?

WE THE PEOPLE seem confused; but the GOP seems to be getting their cake and eating it too.

“In an ideal world where the government is working well, because they have the infrastructure and connections to track people who’s visas are expired or who’s fathers warn an embassy.

I’m not claiming they do this well now, but I think they have the capacity to improve and do it well.”

Faith in the “ideal world” provided by a central power is the Road to Serfdom. Can you provide example of otherwise?

Richard

All that you say is true: the government could and should be better.

But you fall short of providing that reason for why the Status Quo, the socialist model we don’t recognize, makes any sense, and is not wholly hypocritical, especially to the Republican ideals. And how we think of ourselves as American.

Intelligence gathering, done well or poorly, is important, and should be a government function. It is not inconsistent with the airlines paying their own costs, security in this case, rather than receiving tax payer subsidy for their operations.

The benefit is cheap seat tickets; the cost is a rigid system that doesn’t work well, higher and higher taxes, a march toward a genuine police state, central government planning, suppression of innovative solutions that emerge from a true free market, a worsening environment, airlines being unresponsive to their customers, propping up Big Big Business: airlines, aircraft manufacturers, financial industry, energy industry, etc.

This is socialism masquerading as “free enterprise,” becoming communism; is this what you want?

I too have substantial experience with aviation.

Richard

Off-topic

Just checked out your web-site. Do you think Apple is under-valued @ $300+/share?

“Or will they invite the same people on saying more drastic measures are need?” (Similar to what there doing with the financial world asking the same people who failed us before for the answers).

“My question to all the supporters is at what point do you say enough”

“The government did not take responsibility for its intelligence failures in the past so what makes you think they will now?”

“But the government has forced Americans to give up little by little there rights for such failures made by our government”

A democracy is tested at it’s worst of times and sadly the U.S. democracy is failing to uphold such democratic values it claims to export to the world…

Flowen: I do think Apple has more headroom yet even though I find the market for its stock (not its products) fickle. I know their products and I have a sense of where they’re going and there will be a constant stream of new stuff out in the next year.

I just bought and set up an AppleTV. It’s one of the single coolest pieces of electronics i’ve seen in years and is a sleeper product. A few more hits in that direction (AirPlay is just blooming now) and they’ll have a real foot in the door to the living room. This is worth at least 50 or more points of stock price as it takes hold.

Apple gifted Jobs a jet so he doesn’t have to go through TSA’s “handlers” and have his liver man handled, and while I’m on the (off) topic, what’s great about Jobs is that he works only for commission (stock price). Apple does well, he does well. Apple in the toilet, he gets his $1 salary. I sure wish Congress worked that way.

Sigh.

@david

I heard the threat of Sharia law in Oklahoma was so great that the Sooners women’s basketball team was being asked to wear warmup burkas.

That’s OUTRAGEOUS.

Besides the fact that most of 9/11 commissioners admitted that the 9/11 commission was a fraud and a joke, we need a new investigation of 9/11 to say the least ..

That said however, it is my understanding that TSA agents are poorly trained minimum wage workers and not certified law enforcement. Illegal aliens can rent planes with absolutely no security check, private planes have no checks and anyone can cross the border and enter into the USA pretty easily ..

These searches are violations of our constitutional rights as is the patriot act, they are immoral, indecent, dehumanizing, and there is inadequate prevention against abuses by unprofessional TSA agents.

I say since flying is voluntary and is not violating your rights because you chose to fly, they did not ask you to or demand you to. I say all the ones that do not want the body scanner nor the pat down should be put on a seperate flight with all the other nuts who do not want it and let all the others who want it and want to be safe be put on a seperate one. And also let an the pilot be a pilot that also object to it. Because some of us want to be safe. It is bad enough flying let alone flying with people that have not had a proper search. Who cares about their junk or anything other parts of their body when it comes to flying safely. Get real people…