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Week in the News

“Don’t ask, don’t tell,” off and on again. The French riot. The British slash. Plus, NPR dismisses Juan Williams. It’s our weekly news roundtable.

Pennsylvania Senate candidates Republican Pat Toomey, left, and Democratic Rep. Joe Sestak, D-Pa., participate in a debate in Philadelphia, Oct. 20, 2010. (AP)

Campaign fever this week. The President on the stump. Sarah Palin on the stump. Republicans, Democrats, Tea Partiers are clawing toward voting day. 

And then, in the middle of everything, NPR kicks up a storm when it fires Juan Williams for comments he made on Fox News. There is a storm of response. 

There was whiplash at the Pentagon this week, as “don’t ask, don’t tell” is briefly off then on again. In Britain, there were historic, deep cuts in government spending are announced to deal with debt. And in France, riots. 

Our weekly news roundtable goes behind the headlines.

-Tom Ashbrook

Guests:

Jonathan Martin, senior political writer at Politico.

Karen Tumulty, national political correspondent for the Washington Post.

Jack Beatty, On Point news analyst.

 
  • Bill Hogan

    Is this the most important issue in the world?

    What about the firing of Juan Williams by your news company for stating the obvious? I hope the Tea Party Tea spills all over you.

    What a bunch of hypocrites?

  • Nick

    Juan Williams issue,

    I am tied between Juan Williams being honestly frank and whether or not it was a sign of bigotry. Obviously, someone dressed in Muslim garb is as innocent as someone dressed Midwesternly and neither pose a threat. But was firing him so quickly without any chance to explain himself the way to go?

    Before you pop off thinking that I share those frank thoughts, I speak Arabic and Hebrew, studied, lived, and soldiered in the Middle East from 1969 to 1981 AND HAVE THE GREATEST RESPECT FOR MOST MUSLIMS – particularly their family structure and sense of community.

  • Joshua Hendrickson

    Firing Juan Williams for speaking his mind is a cowardly, lame, unAmerican thing to do … but it is decidedly not a “liberal” thing to do. And yet some people think this is a sign that NPR is too liberal!

    We do ourselves and our society a great disservice by limiting the freedom of speech in any way shape or form. I want everyone to courageously speak their mind; how else will we know with whom we are dealing? If racism, prejudice and honesty are buried they will only sink deeper into our hearts and poison us from within; better to have them out in the open, where we can fight them outright.

  • William

    Well, I don’t speak Arabic or Hebrew, but my tax dollars have been supporting Israel and the PLO for years. I don’t have much respect for Muslims because most Muslims don’t respect themselves. Where are the moderate Muslims? When are they going to go after the radicals within their ranks? Mr. Williams was fired for making an honest comment and NPR needs to apologize.

  • Zeno

    Juan Williams was just expressing what most Americans feel. Yes, believe it or not we pre-judge people by the way they appear and dress. Anyone who states differently is either a liar or a saint. Try wearing old ragged clothes and walk into any expensive store.

    The apparel people wear can cause significant fear and concern due to the correlation of what sometimes occurs with individual that have that same appearance. It a natural survival mechanism like fear of snakes, etc.

    The sight of a police uniform usually causes a fear reaction regardless of the situation. You just don’t know if you are getting the good cop or the one that wants to beat you to death.

    The proper reaction should be to address why the apparel has come to represent violence.

  • WINSTON SMITH

    The double standard exhibited by NPR in firing Juan Williams over his recent politically incorrect comments while at the same time continuing to employ Nina Totenberg despite her comments on the “poetic justice of Jesse Helms getting AIDS” (see clip (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/will-npr-fire-nina-totenberg-for-wishing-jesse-helms-would-get-aids-105441948.html)is the reason why many people believe that the mainstream media in general and NPR in particular have a strong liberal bias. Juan Williams was simply expressing what most of us do feel when we see an obvious Muslim board an airplane, fear over another 9/11 incident. (of course, not all Muslims all terrorists, but many terrorists are Muslim, 99% of those that fly airplanes int0 buildings). Can you imaging the outcry if someone from a more conservative viewpoint had said that “it would be poetic justice for people engaged in non-monogomous heterosexual or any kind of homosexual relationship to get AIDS, given the known risk factors of such irresponsible behavior? But let’s be honest: In the minds of the decision makers and the vast majority of employees at NPR, Juan Williams was a marked man as soon as he appeared on Fox Network. They were simply looking for an excuse, however flimsy and biased, to get rid of him. By the way, if NPR now fires Totenberg or allows her to “pursue other interests”, it is too late. That decision should have been made immediately after she made her hate speech comments.

  • WINSTON SMITH
  • Grady Lee Howard

    First: Jesse Helms was a hate-filled racist man who used Social Security Disability handouts to his White underclass constituency to maintain himself in the Senate. Like many Authoritarians who condemn homosexuals it does seem ironic that he died of AIDS.

    Second: Plenty more had gone on with Juan Williams before he sidled up to No Spin Bill and tried to win his approval. PBS and the Newshour have employment policies that Williams had bent and skirted to secure a lucrative second income with Fox News. He was probably on a longer leash as an Hispanic minority employee. Certainly the appearance of alliance with O’Reilly diminishes his credibility as a public media news analyst, but he had also probably neglected his work at PBS to an increasing degree over time to get into the bigger money in the private media side. Celebrity becomes a problem after a while. On these grounds maybe Totenburg and others don’t have far to go before they are terminated. Remember Bob Edwards exit from NPR after it was decided he should vacate his Morning Edition slot to make room for others who had labored long in the field, and had even served in war zones. I think the Newshour will be a better show without William’s ballooning ego. I expect he can continue with Fox, do some speaking, and write some big-advance books. He ain’t hurting. His dismissal can be viewed as a favor. (It may re-awaken his journalism too.)

  • George Holoch

    Despite the outpouring above, please do not spend much time on Juan Williams (a self-reflexive, narcissistic press exercise). Rather, take some time to go behind the headline clichés about French “riots” to analyze why at least a significant portion of the French population reacts to crisis by defending its own interests, while a significant (I hope smaller) portion of the American population reacts to a parallel situation by defending the interests of corporate power in the “Tea Party” demonstrations.

  • Elis

    About Juan Williams.

    I value NPR’s neutrality. I find myself at times trying to figure out what Tom Ashbrook really thinks. Sometimes I suspect he is a Republican. Other times I applaud him when he goes to the point of something and realize that it doesn’t matter what he really thinks. The point is to go deeply into the issues, call a spade a spade, get to the real dichotomies that are out there. Get people to speak their truths, challenge the places where they are unclear on facts, pull forth the real issues.

    Juan Williams has broken this neutrality with what he said. I value this neutrality from NPR. I love that they often have guests from varying viewpoints. Only a neutral moderator could pull this off.

    So I am glad Juan Williams has gone his way. He is more of a Fox type newscaster. It would have been great if he brought NPR sensibilities to Fox, but he went the other way.

  • Yar

    On Don’t ask don’t tell, it seems the Military has added “don’t Act.” No military unit leader wants to be part of a report on the desk of a high ranking official in an action that doesn’t have a clear resolution. This actually does create a problem for the readiness of a unit. Looking the other way, or take care of the situation in an informal manner will create additional problems. The policy should be to report when told, but in a confidential way with an indication if the current situation effects operations. That protects the soldier and supervisor now the don’t act filter has been applied.

    On Juan Williams, is it possible that FOX offered him a contract that required him to get fired from NPR?

    Remember he has learned from the best, Danial Shore, getting fired can help a career in some situations.
    I expect it adds to Juan’s credibility at Fox.
    The question for him is, will he hold on to his independence?

    I wish him well.

    On the French riots, I would be happy if our citizens will just go vote.
    I would like to see a record turnout, that is the beginning of having a representative democracy.
    My goal is 80 percent that is enough to scramble the divide and conquer statistics of the moneyed interests.
    It will change behavior in congress for the next two years, regardless of who wins.

  • Steve

    A personal story.

    I was traveling abroad on 9-11-2001.
    Return flight home delayed for obvious reasons.
    A number of muslim passengers were on the flight returning to the US several weeks later.

    Did I notice? Yes.
    Was I concerned or prepared to act? Yes.

    Did I let heart felt anxiety influence my words or my actions towards fellow passengers? No.

    Actions and words have consequences but are they more effectively moderated by rules than by understanding the difference between right and wrong?

  • michael

    Week in the News,

    Rabbi(also a supporter of the tea party) from Cali is going to speak at an EDL british Neo-Nazi rally against muslims and then we have Uganda how journalist released an news article saying hang them all (in regards towards the gays there)

    http://sheikyermami.com/2010/10/12/us-rabbi-british-jews-should-support-far-right-edl-group/

    also reported on the bbc hourly news 9:40am Eastern

  • Gustavo

    You know who has to be really happy about this? Scott Simon.
    The segment where Juan would simply spout off DC conventional wisdom without a hint of thought, conviction or insight was so dreary.

    Anyways, besides being a proven on-the-job sexual harrasser, Juan has said so many dumb and intemperate things on FOX over the years I’m sure management was thrilled when he gave them one more opportunity to finally get rid of him.

    P.S. I can see where he would fit in perfectly with the dumbed-down conversation on Talk of the Nation (although they will not give you a public embarrassment, NPR please get rid of Neal Conan and Ken Rudin next).

  • Becky

    It makes me a little sad that NPR became one of the over-reactors this week in firing Juan Williams. First, NPR allows him to appear on Fox News where he is often, if not always, painted as the “token liberal.” And it is not so much that he is; he is offering the balanced view which appears to be liberal because Fox leans so heavily right. And let’s be real about it, The O’Reilly Factor is anything but a news show. There are so many of those so-called news shows that we have accepted them as such when what they really are is propaganda machines, churning out extreme left or extreme right nonsense. Most importantly, they are shows centered on opinion-giving more than on fact-finding. Williams is not the first serious journalist to appear on such a show and express a real opinion.

    Second, nothing that Williams said was untrue or slanderous. We all stereotype and profile: the white man in a three-piece suit, the woman covered in tattoos and piercings, the black man in baggy pants and a hoody, and yes, the Muslim in traditional dress. While it doesn’t make it right or acceptable, we do it. It’s human nature. We routinely struggle to isolate the actions of a few without allowing the repercussions of those actions to affect how we see the group at large. I am a born again Christian who attends a conservative Baptist church and upon my identification as such, I am immediately associated with such disturbed and hateful people as Fred Phelps when what he believes is the furthest thing from what I practice and believe myself.

    To fire Williams is simply too strict a punishment. Was what he said imprudent and offensive? Yes. Was it a fireable offense? Considering the milieu, I think not.

  • Gustavo

    I should add that it hilarious that conventional punditry wisdom is that foreign corporations pouring money into U.S. elections is not a subject to talk about, but Juan Williams and FOX news audience of 0.07 percent of Americans is a 3-day topic.

    P.S. Republicans don’t want to talk about the foreign money today because it is benefiting them. They should remember that corporations (foreign and domestic) and foreign governments have no allegiance to the United States. They will pour millions into defeating Republicans in some other election cycle.

  • Cam Fraer

    So disappointed in NPR over Juan Williams. Having him on FOX is a good thing for moderate, thoughtful discussion. The way this was handled is horrible. There should have been meetings, discussions with all parties and only then decisions made. This makes it look like everything I keep telling people is NOT true about NPR is. What a fiasco. After 20 years as a member of WBUR I am thinking about canceling my monthly pledge. I’m actually kinda heartbroken.

  • Dennis.in.Omaha

    I still love NPR and Juan Williams.

    So, if you think about it, how do come up with a comment with the least real impact, while allowing you to be kicked out of a low paying contract – so you can take a high paying contract.

    Well, you do what Juan Williams did. Fox News might have bit off more than it could chew though. Juan will quickly revert back to his own self and Fox will have to buy him out of his contract.

    Then Juan with a couple million in the bank, will be welcomed right back into the NPR family… you heard it here first.

  • Jeff Newton

    NPRs’ ethics code is very strict, and that is why I love NPR.

    Journalists can’t even make a political contribution, yet Fox News openly donates to right wing causes in the millions of dollars in just the past few months.

    Fox news is making sure the media targets NPR for it’s objectivity, which it seems to be unable to stomach.

  • Brian M.

    I get the feeling the people wailing the loudest about Juan Williams are very familiar with his Fox appearances and completely unaware of his “work” for NPR.

    Williams didn’t just say he was prejudiced. He went on to *justify* it – all in the service of telling Bill O’Reilly that it was okay to say that all Muslims are potential terrorists.

    Conservatives have come to believe that anyone on their side should be able to say anything and suffer no consequences for it. There is no reason in the world that NPR should tolerate an employee who goes on another network to provide cover for their bigotry.

    Plus – IMHO – Juan Willams’s reporting for NPR was garbage. His commentary was boring, uninsightful, and felt like it was phoned-in. If he added value to NPR’s news, I might feel differently, but every time he came on he repeated GOP talking points and offered the most uninspired David Broder-esque Beltway conventional wisdom. He made David Gergen look like a risk-taker.

    Plus, the guy has been trafficking in the worst kind of Fox bigotry. He said that Michelle Obama was “Stokely Carmichael in a dress.”

    Who talks like that?

    I expect NPR to have higher standards than Fox.

    If the former Klansmen in the Tea Party are upset about this, they can have him. They never liked NPR anyway.

  • Ben

    The Juan Williams ordeal is a non-story. A news outlet fires a sub-par “commentator” for offensive comments on a tv “show”. Move on. There are MANY other things that should be discussed on this show.

  • Brian M.

    Also -

    A guest from Politico.

    A guest from the WaPo editorial page.

    Is it just impossible for you guys to find someone who won’t spend the next hour fluffing the Tea Party?

    My bet is that the corporate money behind the thing gets yanked in December, and that the entire movement vanishes by March. It was an artificial organization created to win one election, and it will disappear as soon as the Koch brothers’ money gets funneled into allowing them to pollute without consequences.

  • michael

    Don’t cry to much for williams, for his words fox cable news gave him a 3yr 2million dollar deal.

    But the astro-turf response to it by the far right is pretty funny.

  • http://ianscottberry.com ian

    Dont feel bad for Juan Williams. He just signed a 2 million dollar deal with Fox.

  • Bradley

    Why does Jonathan Martin refer to Bill Clinton as “former President Clinton” and Sarah Palin as “Governor Palin”

    why the differential?

  • John in SC

    John Hockenberry, on NPR’s “The Takeaway” just now: “Isn’t that kind of like saying ‘When I’m on a plane and I see a pilot come on board, I get nervous because he might be drunk?’ “

  • Bill Marshall

    Listen to the Onpoint guests cover for NPR.

    NPR is a liberal news organization. No normal, rational, logical, or reasonable person would deny that. NPR preaches diversity. Where are all the blacks at NPR? Where is the black on-air talent? There are far more declared liberals, who regularly appear on FOX in a week, than conservatives who appear on NPR in a year.

    On O’Reilly, Williams expressed his “feelings” when he is at the airport and when he sees people who first appear as Muslims. He did not express his “opinion.” These words are different and they have different meanings. Conflating these two different words just shows a lack of intellectual discipline and vocabulary.

    NPR not only expresses liberal views, but it also shows its liberal bias in the following ways: intentionally failing to ask certain follow-up questions, avoiding certain topics, deliberately failing to feature certain guests and conservative authors. It is not just what is broadcast by NPR that reveals its bias and prejudice. It is what is not done or broadcast that also shows how biased NPR is.

    NPR is politically correct. Political correctness is a tool of censors and cowards and a the way in which the left silences its critics. If you really do not want to offend someone, all you need to do is to practice good manners. However, the left uses politically correct speech to silence its opposition. They have chilled free speech. You lose your job in America if you speak your mind and tell the truth. All one need to do is to look at the global warming issue. Debate was immediately cut off by NPR and the left by saying that there was consensus and there was no need to discuss the issue. Yet there were many scientists who were skeptical about man made global warming. But they were declared to be not credible by the left. Can one imagine a subject that is any more complicated than that of the climate? Climate involves chemistry, physics, biology, astronomy, and geology. Many different extra-terrestrial and terrestrial forces affect climate, yet in the minds of NPR and the left, the debate is to be cut off. We now learn that there is nothing but problems with the data and climate models used to predict the effects of “global climate disruption.” (Gotta use the new politically correct phrase for this month.)

    George Soros is an anti-American, left wing supporter of NPR. He has given NPR almost 2 million dollars. Does anyone really expect NPR to hire reporters that will offend Soros? NPR has liberal elite standards and will hire liberal elite reporters. Just watch. I am still waiting for the NPR stories about Soros, his political philosophy, why he hates the USA, the way he made his money, etc.

    CAIR put pressure on NPR to fire Williams. CAIR is a pro-muslim organization that was featured in the book Muslim Mafia. If you did not read the book, you would know nothing about CAIR and what it does behind the scenes because NPR never discusses CAIR and its work.

    NPR is corrupt and dishonest in its presentation of the news. NPR is white news for white people who are loaded with white guilt. NPR’s reporters must fit the liberal template and agenda, otherwise they need not apply.

    Would Williams have been fired if he had said that he felt uncomfortable around tea party people? NPR would have jumped for joy if Williams said that on O’Reilly. Williams would probably have been given a raise by NPR.

    NPR has embraced Islam. NPR has vilified Catholics and Christinity for decades. The hard cold fact is that NPR executives lay awake at night fearing that if they say anything against Islam, muslim radicals will take over their buildings and create another Munich. It will be their beheading video that appears on the Internet. Want respect and have people fear you? Chop someone’s head off.

    Underwear bomber: a muslim
    Shoe bomber: a muslim
    Times square bomber: a muslim
    The hijackers on 9/11/2001: all muslims.

    All muslims are not terrorists, but all terrorists who have killed Americans since 1979 have been muslims.

    Keep sticking your heads in the sand. Living in denial is the hallmark of a fool.

    Media Matters is calling for Moira Liaison’s head next. Stay tuned. Keep your head done Moira.

  • Vickie

    W/r/t Mr. Williams’ saying that NPR was just looking for a reason to get rid of him: I just want to say that if I were NPR, that’s what I would have been doing. NPR is arguably our best and most credible national news organization. Fox News is a platform for right-wing demagogues. It is incongruous for an NPR analyst to also work for Fox News.

  • Elizabeth

    Juan Williams should have been much more careful in what he said – because that statement does help people justify their own irrational fears, and Juan of all people should have understood that. I listened to the full statement, and it falls short of counteracting the full harm created so NPR certainly needed to do something in response to that.

    But I think that NPR handled the situation poorly. No one should ever get fired over the phone! The least they should have done is to hold a face to face meeting – it makes NPR look petty and cowardly. A better response would have been for his contract to either not be extended or for renegotiation.

    As a nation we simply respond – we no longer think. NPR should be above all that, but sadly this showed that it isn’t, and has fueled the radical right.

  • Marc S., Worcester MA

    While I disagree with Juan Williams’ comments on the O’Reilly Factor, I find NPR’s abrupt termination of his contract equally distasteful. I am left to wonder if there is more to NPR’s decision than meets the eye.

  • Lyle E.

    Though the mantra is that Williams was “just being honest” it’s pretty clear that the honesty FOX news really care about is the ability to speak bigoted opinions frankly. I don’t remember FOX defending Jeremiah Wright for expressing his “honest” opinions.
    Nor do I remember the outrage on Fox News when Helen Thomas was forced to retire for her “honest” comments about Israel and Palestine. Talk about hypocrisy.

  • Noreen

    NPR responded inappropriately by firing NPR commentator, Juan Williams, who said he feels nervous on an airplane when he sees people in Muslim garb [after 9/11]. Our local newspaper publishes conservative, liberal and independent columnists without presuming to tell them what they can say or not say. All views are needed in the marketplace of ideas in order to approach some semblance of truth. It’s the dialog, not whether it agrees with the opinions or not, to which the news media should be committed. The NPR excuse for its action is that reporters should stay neutral, but, to the contrary, the function of commentators and news analysts like Juan Williams, their very reason for being, is to voice opinion on the events of the day. NPR should know that. Juan Williams and Nina Totenberg are two of NPR’s better commentators. I will certainly seek out Juan Williams on Fox to listen to his thoughtful insights. NPR would be wise to learn from the lesson of Obama’s firing of U.S. Department of Agriculture aide Shirley Sherrod for revealing her thoughts on race in saving farms from foreclosure without understanding where she ultimately stood. NPR seems to have a problem with honest discussion. I’m starting to worry that I’m getting ideological sound bites from NPR instead of introspective thinking.

  • Elizabeth

    Mr Marshall – your statement that “All muslims are not terrorists, but all terrorists who have killed Americans since 1979 have been muslims.” is just plain wrong and seems to ignore the home grown anti-government militia movement personified by Timothy McVeigh.

    There are plenty of Christians breaking laws and involved in terrorism, but we are told not to judge them all by those few.

    Let’s practice what we preach!

  • michael

    anytime someone start a sentance with ” I’m not a bigot” you should most likely stop there.

  • john smith

    I could care less what government radio does; as far as I can see, its the polite face of the neo-con movement. But lets be clear about juan williams and what he said: ” … if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried. I get nervous.”

    first, that implies that there is an “American” way of dressing. If so what is it? Second, what about someone dressed as a christian minister or dressed in a nun’s habit? Does williams think that they are identifying themselves “first and foremost as [christian]” in some negative manner? His statment only makes sense if williams meant that dressing in muslim clothes implies that the person is probably a terrorist. And, as far as that goes, since when is it consdered wrong to put god above all else?

    What this really gets down to is williams is condemning all muslims.

  • Dave

    We are not allowed to be nervous. Good old liberty.

  • RichNH

    Juan Williams firing: I am reminded of the quote “You are welcome to your opinion, as long as it is my own”. Juan is clearly not a bigot, just expressing a fact. NPR is being more politically correct than objective and not allowing FOX to have a different slant on news than NPR’s view of the world.

  • Dennis.in.Omaha

    This show is in Boston. Hmmm…

    Why don’t you remind people about the true spirit of the Boston Tea Party in history.

    British imports were given tax advantages while products in America had to have an expensive stamp. It didn’t make sense to subsidize British goods and punish local goods. Recent decades have a similar problem.

    We have large corporations, Wal-mart for instance, significantly owned by sovereign funds, China for instance. The expenses for shipping slave labor imports are tax deductible.

    So even though it should not make financial sense to ship across the ocean, when they take the diesel expense and deduct it from their income, then they can leverage slave labor. It is anti-American.

    People in Boston should educate Tea Party “patriots” and let them know they are missing the whole point.

  • Greg

    What Juan Williams said is a different rendition of Angela Merkel’s statement that multiculturalism has failed.

  • Brandstad

    Tom,

    Can you discuss how several of our president’s advisors are trying to alienate Fox News by limiting their access to the white house and this is another attempt to keep Fox out on its own, so its destruction can not also take down the left wing media.

  • http://onanov.com Donald Baxter, Iowa City, IA

    What Juan Williams said was stupid and silly. I’ve never been comfortable seeing NPR news commentators on FOX and I also think Mara Liasson should be the next to go over to FOX. Really, as soon as a reporter/commentator becomes a story him or herself, that person should be gone.

  • Dennis.in.Omaha

    Hi Bill Marshall,

    Please stop saying false things about NPR. I first learned about CAIR from NPR. I also heard from NPR about their representatives and their detractors a long time ago.

    Since I am not a reporter, I don’t have to be objective. So as somebody who loves NPR, I didn’t have to work very hard to see your criticism is half baked, even half a**ed.

    Thanks

  • Mike in PA

    To Jack:

    Is it not a truth or fact, that people do feel that way when they get on a plane?

    Juan was simply saying that that is an objective truth! And that we should temper and restrain ourselves when we have such feelings. But it is difficult for us after 9/11. Those are facts.

  • Brandstad

    Would Juan Williams be fired from NPR if he would have made similar comments about “Tea Party” people?

    I think NOT!

  • Dave

    The “Truth” is that he gets nervous in referenced situation. You (we) can’t handle the truth.

    We are intellectual cowards, and we wonder why we are so polarized. Its because we are afraid to honestly/openly look at other people’s perspective.

    Afraid we might change our mind and threaten our allegiance to some group.

    Pathetic.

  • John

    · I could care less what government radio does; as far as I can see, its the polite face of the neo-con movement. But lets be clear about juan williams and what he said: ” … if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried. I get nervous.”
    first, that implies that there is an “American” way of dressing. If so what is it? Second, what about someone dressed as a christian minister or dressed in a nun’s habit? Does williams think that they are identifying themselves “first and foremost as [christian]” in some negative manner? His statment only makes sense if williams meant that dressing in muslim clothes implies that the person is probably a terrorist. And, as far as that goes, since when is it consdered wrong to put god above all else? – Posted by john smith

    – There is an American way of dressing. Unfortunately, it is short or sweatpants, an oversized T shirt, and a baseball cap. And when I see them getting on a plane, I am nervous that their bulk will spill over into my seat.

    I get nervous whenever I see people dressed in any religious garb. I wouldn’t let my children sit next to a priest.

  • Damien

    Juan Williams in shock move to Fox? No, that guy was always the weak link on NPR. Good riddance.

  • Roberto

    Double Standard — CEO “Shriller” can get away wiht her comment, but not Juan? Tom, you gave a “nice” sound bite for her — why not show her in her “primal scream” as well?? Hey, NPR can fire anyone they want; all they need to do is wean itself from the Gov’t teat…

  • MT

    Left wing/right wing media bias is largely a myth (exempting Fox News I suppose). The real bias is pro-corporate/business bias.

    See http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=the+media+monopoly&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&cid=1039894377812154682&ei=Wp_BTKPbH4T2wQWuroTTDQ&sa=image&ved=0CBoQ8gIwATgA#p

    Excellent book.

  • Brandstad

    Juan Williams fears are not irrational. If I must remind the caller, Muslum terrorists blew up several airplaines and have attempted to do the same unsuccessfully in recent years.

  • CHRIS M

    Can we talk about real news please – how about the fact that a Ugandan newpaper outed 100 people (supposed homosexuals) and is pushing for them to be hanged because of who they are – how about the riots in France – how about anything newsworthy MR wILLIAMS IS CRYING ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK

  • Hassan

    Substitute it with Christain or Jew and you would have the same reaction. Don’t compare black or latino like you mentionned on air. Compare religions since Juan Williams mentionned religion. He is in fact being a bigot by that remark when attacking Muslims in that manner. According to John Hopkins university there are 1 million Iraqis who have died in Iraq. 1300 Palestinians who were killed in Palestine by the Israelis. It is actually the Muslims who should be worried when the West boards a plane.

  • Brandstad

    Tom,

    Anyone objective can see NPR leans so far left it is in perril of falling over!

  • Chris

    Fox “leans” to the right – the understatment of the year

  • Ryan

    Hi guys,

    I just think that this whole notion that we can come to objective facts where our opinions and perspectives have been erased from the equation is outdated. Its time for the news media, including apparently some of the folks on this show, to realize that no matter what their personal history, knowledge, perspective, etc. will effect the stories they tell. Even if it is “analysis” it is an analysis from a unique perspective. Drop this media dogma about objectivity. It prevents us from being open to other perspectives because you have been “objective” and any other feeling or perspective is false.

  • paul martin

    hilarious to hear a guy from Politico of all places lamenting the loss of a neutral press.

    visit Politico’s webpage – 75% of the stories are about Republicans, 100% of them are positive.

    they started declaring the Obama presidency a failure at about 12:05 on inauguration day.

  • MT

    @ CHRIS M

    I could not agree more. Why are we still talking about this? Don’t make ignorant comments on the air and you won’t lose your job (unless of course you are trying to get hired over at Fox as Mr. Williams was after the “incident”, then by all means make as many paranoid/bigoted comments as you would like).

  • Bill Mitchell

    I would like to commend NPR for standing up for its convictions. If Fox “News” media were to fire one of the station commentators, such as Bill O’Riley, that station would absolutely prohibit any on-air discussion about their decision. So much for freedom of speech Congratulations to NPR for allowing a free discussion about this decision.

    And as for Sarah Palin complaining about freedom of speech issues, just try to enter anything negative about her on her Facebook page. Guaranteed that it will never make it to the page.

  • Brandstad

    Fox News is clearly more main stream than NPR since Fox can have divergent political views aired without threat of firing.

    Has NPR ever fired a comentator for being to liberal?

  • Dennis.in.Omaha

    Fox News does not lean to the Right.

    They are fake right wing. If they are conservative, why do they lean against conservation?

    If they are conservative, why are they against conservators of knowledge, art and music in the public education system?

    If they are somehow defending Republicans, how come they are against the EPA when President Nixon created it?

    Their main success is not reporting news in a “right” or “conservative” manner. Their main success is minimizing the role of China (positive or negative) in our economy.

  • Chia-Li Sung

    I really think he wanted out.

  • Dave

    Yay! Censorship!

    State control, via NPR now, coming on strong!

    “The Road to Serfdom” so topical yet again…. Recall, that National Socialism came in large part as an assault on classical liberal (modern libertarian) thought. It did NOT come FROM libertarians. It came from a psychopathic statist viewpoint.

    We worry about the Tea Party, with historically incorrect allusions to fascism/nazism, when the true threat is always from a statist philosophy.

    So while I think any Nazi talk is ridiculous today, if there is any road to serfdom, it is from the well-meaning NYTimes/NPR/Paul Krugman types who want to micromanage our economy and now apparently our feelings.

    Of course that sounds silly, nobody sees “totalitarianism” coming when it starts.

  • JD Hamilton

    This was all about religion, and no-one is going to come out and say that jewish run NPR will not allow the rationailty of religion to be called into question. If Islam can be called irrational, so can judaeism. If judeaism can be called into question, the foundation of the pirate state of isreal is called into question.

  • Michael Drew

    First caller Michael’s thesis is there must be a standard in professional political communications where all statements are designed to lessen irrational fears. A true, if irrational, fear expressed MUST have consequences such as termination if it potentially could have the effect of stirring irrational fears in the populace. Michael sounded intelligent; there is no possible way he wants to restrict dialogue in this way. He will hear himself on the podcast and realize he doesn’t believe what he said.

  • Patrick Durkan

    It was bad enough that Williams was fired, but then Ms. Schiller showed herself to be as rude and arrogant as any Fox personality. Then she apologizes for speaking “hastily”, which appeared to be the reason Williams was fired.
    NPR is supposed to really be” fair and balanced.” Nothing in this affair would support that. Ms. Schiller has given the conservatives who mock the network everything they need to dismiss NPR as liberal and biased. She has done something I did not think was possible – make Bill O’Rielly seem reasonable. I tuned in WBZ radio last night to for a traffic report and listened to the host and every caller talk about NPR’s hypocrisy for about twenty minutes until I just couldn’t stand it anymore. She has not only hurt the network, but a week and a half before a crucial election given conservatives one more reason to dismiss “the liberal agenda” and discouraged liberals one more reason to stay home.
    I was going to write NPR to protest their unreasonable and basically stupid decision forbidding anyone from attending Jon Stewart’s rally. Yes, you really don’t want to be associated in any way with a “Rally to Restore Sanity”. Does management know Stewart is a comedian? Sadly, because of things like this I’m beginning to think The Daily Show is my only reasonable source for news.
    If Ms. Schiller cares about NPR she should resign.

  • Yoda

    - Why is the DoJ being allowed to spend taxpayer resources defending DADT when the President, clear majorities of both houses of Congress and a supermajority of the people want gays to be allowed to serve openly?

    - I don’t care about Juan Williams. Everyone has a right to freedom of speech, no-one has a right to a guaranteed broadcast platform. That’s what the Internet is for-oh, wait, Willimas is getting more from Fox News than my local NPR affiliate’s entire payroll. Never mind about him and the net then…

    - I DO care about mystery money in elections. I’ve heard about the Koch Brothers, the U.S Chamber of Commerce’s overseas fundraising and such ONLY from NPR and MSNBC.

    - I’d prefer to see the Democrats keep control of Congress due to how the Congressional Republicans over the last 18 months since the inaugural have clung together, put party before country, enacted a standing filibuster and refused to participate in governance. Their stated plan has been to induce a failed presidency-essentially throwing away four years- and they’re about to be REWARDED for this when they should be getting slapped down hard by the voters!

  • Dennis.in.Omaha

    Fox News is not Conservative, they are corporate.

    The Christian Science Monitor is the highest quality conservative news source there is.

  • JD Hamilton

    Please pardon my mis-spellings.

  • michael

    Tom and Onpoint staff,

    Please avoid on monday having parstian hacks on to discuss and follow up what you talked about today be it left or right.

    Thanks,

  • Beverly

    Why has Juan Williams’ firing become an issue about bigotry, or Fox News? It’s about following the rules of journalism, & the high standards of NPR. Regardless of the content of his remarks, he wasn’t allowed to express his own opinion on ANYTHING; he was supposed to report a story, factually, without saying how he feels about it. Over his years with NPR, he had crossed that line numerous times, & was finally demoted in 2008. That had nothing to do with Moslims. He was skating on thin ice, & finally fell through. He knew better, especially since there are so many people, in Moslim garb, who work for NPR. It was an incredibly stupid thing for him to say.

  • Bryan

    Fox vs. NPR is sort of a false dichotomy. NPR may lean to the left, like the New York Times, but they sure deliver ALOT more information in their coverage than Fox. Fox emphasizes editorial content and sensationalism. The difference in style is more immediately striking than the difference in ideology. But there are plenty of right-leaning media outlets that deliver more facts, like the Wall Street Journal perhaps, that seem like a more appropriate stylistic counterpart to NPR.

  • Jim in Omaha

    Re: Juan Williams, let me pose this hypothetical:

    A newscaster in Delaware says, on air, “Whenever I see an O’Donnell sign it makes me so angry to think that someone like her won the primary of a major party and has a real chance of actually being our U.S. Senator. And now for the weather forecast.” Who would defend his station dumping him? Words have consequences, and when you have the public voice of someone like Williams, they can have a career-changing impact.

    He’s just another at-will employee who lost his job because he made his employer mad and has no employment security. Join the crowd.

  • John

    Obama’s request for the stay explains why liberals are not eager to go vote.

  • Dennis.in.Omaha

    Hi again Brandstad,

    If you are that politician in Iowa, are you willing to tie yourself to Fox News when their owner’s wife is an officer in the Communist Red Army?

  • Dave

    Watch Fox for a week. Then go back and read NYTimes articles/comments. An open person cannot fail to see the equal fervor and irrational dogmatism on both sides.

    From then on, watch some Fox, read some NYTimes, read http://reason.com/

    Have a beer, relax, be brave, and think for yourself.

    One thing thats funny when you watch a bit of Fox, is it seems alot of it is almost tongue-in-cheek, where they are totally self-aware how much they outrage dedicated NYTimes etc readers.

  • Paula

    I agree with the firing of Juan Williams. The fact that he’s been appearing on Fox News indicates to me that he’d already crossed a line in being objective.

    Moreover, he stressed that he’s made nervous by Muslims who dress to show that they’re Muslims. (I can’t remember the exact words.) These people are actually being devout, as well as brave, to dress according to their religious beliefs in this hostile climate. (Just read the comments some people have written here about Muslims!)

    Just this week, a college football player was killed by police who over-reacted to him, most likely because he was large and black. He was then left to die unattended and his friends who tried to help were beaten back by police and arrested. How does Mr. Williams feel about the police officers’ reaction to a large black young man moving his car out of a fire lane? Were they justified in immediately shooting AT the 2 young men because “anyone” would be afraid of young black men outside a nightclub where there’s been a report of a fight? I wish Mr Williams would explain to us what kinds of stereotypical fears are justified, in his mind, and how he draws the line.

  • MT

    @ Brandstad

    If a lack of paranoid xenophobia and obnoxious hyperbole is characteristic of “leaning so far left” like NPR then I will gladly choose NPR over Fox “News” any day. A news organization that actually takes the time to examine the issues and stories in some depth versus a network whose primary tactic is to drum up irrational fear with flashy graphics and the deluded rantings of uninformed cryptofascists. Easy choice for me.

  • Alexander

    Williams should be fired not because his comment was “divisive” or “racist” or whatever, but because it testifies to his stupidity. Anyone who thinks that a potential terrorist is going to announce his intentions by dressing in a suspicious way does have enough intelligence to be a news analyst in a major media outlet.

  • CHRIS M

    yeah I suppose its never a good time to give equal rights to all americans -

    people who join the service are told to check their opinions at the door,shut up, and follow orders – simple enough

  • Brandstad

    Glenn Beck Teaches a lot more history than NPR does and relates it to how it corresponds to current time.

    Did you know that the US educational system was #1 in the world one year prior to the Federal government creating the department of education and today we are #39 in the world? Given this how can any rational person say the department of education is doing a good job, necessary, not to mention constitutional.

    Why do people look at those who want to eliminate the department of education like they have 3 heads? is it because they don’t know what the department of education does and how poorly it does it?

  • Yar

    Did Juan Williams cover the hearing of Major Nidal Malik Hasan?
    Is it possible that experience would effect gut level?

    In rural Kentucky it is difficult to imagine the gay population is 1 percent much less the 10 percent estimated nation wide, while in New York city ten percent seems a low estimate.
    Perspective is important, Juan was trying to give perspective. We need more interactions between faiths and between race and especially between class.

    Who standing at the corner of your property would make you jump as you carry your trash to the curb on a dark morning?
    We all have prejudice, not only that, it is an essential mental shortcut,it has help us survive.

    We should look at why we react the way we do, prejudice is weakened when examined.
    Look at your own, it is healthy.

  • Brandstad

    Dennis.in.Omaha,

    Please give me proof of your wild acusations

  • Roberto

    Pres. O is slowing DADT to appease military; which, if we can get beyond Juan, is fighting a few wars, as I recall from some news reports several weeks back…

    Military will eventually yield, but needs time to “adjust” — not facilities or policies, but many of the “heads” of leadership AND enlisted. And as caller now saying, this just is not the time for a major distraction. Let’s whip the bad boys best we can (I meant “fight the terrorists”…), pack up our war gear and get home. Then, we can resolve the inequitable situation of gays along with the immense deficit and dismal economy which are bound to be with us for a while longer. It is a matter of priorities, people!

  • http://prochoicethankyous.com Sobdee

    Why are we always blaming the victim in this country? We shouldn’t end DADT because some bigots in uniform may commit hate crimes??!?!?!? That’s your argument? The hate crimes and the bigots are the problem! Not the gay people! DADT legitimizes homophobia and it’s wrong! End DADT now

  • Dave

    “She has not only hurt the network, but a week and a half before a crucial election given conservatives one more reason to dismiss “the liberal agenda” and discouraged liberals one more reason to stay home.
    I was going to write NPR to protest their unreasonable and basically stupid decision forbidding anyone from attending Jon Stewart’s rally. Yes, you really don’t want to be associated in any way with a “Rally to Restore Sanity”. Does management know Stewart is a comedian? Sadly, because of things like this I’m beginning to think The Daily Show is my only reasonable source for news.
    If Ms. Schiller cares about NPR she should resign.”

    Right on Patrick.

    Is NPR really banned from covering the Stewart stuff? Insane.

    Sad to say, there “is” a liberal agenda. And more and more people are outraged at the arrogance of the “liberal” agenda, just as they were at the “neoconservative” agend a few short years ago. People want an Agenda of and by the People. That is so not radical.

    And we wring our hands and wonder why there is a Tea Party……

  • John

    The reason for banning gays from the military because some bigots will commit hate crimes makes as much sense as banning Muslims from planes as seeing them there makes some people uncomfortable.

  • Ann

    “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” SHOULD BE REPEALED!!! It denies homosexual individuals their civil rights — simple as that! Should civil rights be determined by what makes OTHER people “comfortable”? Absolutely NOT! That said, that was one of the underlying excuses that kept Jim Crow discrimination and bigotry in place in this SAME country!

    Another thing I’d like to say about DADT: it makes the jobs of parents who tell their kids NOT to bully the kids who are gay that much harder when the gigantic, national institution called the Armed Forces is doing just that!!!

    A close relative of mine kept getting pneumonia during Basic Training for the National Guard; therefore, he was in four different basic training “classes”. He was a closeted gay man (& remained that way for his entire life). Yet, WHO received the award for being the Top (cadet?) in EACH (i.e., ALL FOUR) of those “classes”?!!!! My relative! He remained an outstanding individual for his entire life until years of living with the consequences of a sports injury wiped out his heart. His heart was stronger than the “hearts” of the bigots who would keep DADT alive!

  • Roberto

    Sobdee — know what you are saying, and would also like to see this end. But Barry O must have some pretty good reasons for going slowly. But, heck, you might have the simple answer. Question: are you “willing and able” to run the military, and uhh, could you do this on short notice? If so, pls. enlist today (am presuming you have not previously served…) and try working out a successful plan for your “Change” vision.

  • BHA

    Do I think “Don’t ask, don’t tell” should be repealed? Yes

    Am I surprised the ban has been halted:
    Not in the slightest.

    When anyone can serve in the military regardless of sexual preference, I suspect a lot of guys/gals in uniform who ‘fear’ serving with homosexuals will be surprised to find out how many have ‘had their back’ all along.

  • Dave

    “The reason for banning gays from the military because some bigots will commit hate crimes makes as much sense as banning Muslims from planes as seeing them there makes some people uncomfortable.”

    Well John, lets probe into your life and see what thing makes you irrationally uncomfortable. Then we’ll fire you for your human flaw.

    Oh, what? You are the Buddha? Perfectly enlightened? Excuse us.
    :)

  • John

    Public policy shouldn’t be based on irrational fears (mine or anyone else’s).

  • http://onanov.com Donald Baxter, Iowa City, IA

    Go Dan Choi! I’m not much on the military, but this man exhibits the sort of courage of which we need more in America!

  • Dave

    Did Juan direct public policy? I thought he was a political journalist, not an elected official.

  • Dave

    “Public policy shouldn’t be based on irrational fears (mine or anyone else’s).”

    Agree on that.

  • Ann

    THANK YOU for playing the Sesame Street song about African-American hair! Altho it may not seem like major news, it was, on the socio-cultural front. Thank you for recognizing that!

  • michael

    “All muslims are not terrorists, but all terrorists who have killed Americans since 1979 have been muslims. ”

    The Oklahoma bombing states otherwise, and the actions by Klansman and White power groups in the 1980′s amazing enough non were muslims. Lets not forget various biker gangs.

  • mary elizabeth

    Juan Williams, entrusted with a voice on the public airways, is obliged to keep his “feelings” to himself.
    He may not be a bigot, but there are plenty who are and are encouraged by his revelations.
    “Discretion is the better part of valor” especially in these volatile times.

  • John

    I was using Juan’s observation to show the absurdity of the comment on don’t ask don’t tell. Juan’s view shouldn’t be adopted as policy for airlines but he should not have been fired.

  • Marc

    The primary reason Williams’ firing is a major story is because it illustrates what most are thinking – that NPR has a strong left wing bias, which they’d like to hide. You also have to wonder about the competence of the CEO. Bill O’Reilly’s show, in contrast to most of the programs on NPR, admit they are not a news program, but an opinion one. I accept the fact that O’Reilly and NPR have opinions, but give more credit to Fox for being honest about it (and I’ve seen the reaction of people on this web site, when anyone says anything nice about Fox).

    Personally, I was not a fan of Williams – pleasant guy, but seemed a bit light. However this firing, based on all of what he said, not what people think he said, seems to show the narrow range of opinions that are tolerated by NPR management and, to some extent, the hosts and listeners to these shows.

  • michael

    “Glenn Beck Teaches a lot more history than NPR does and relates it to how it corresponds to current time.”

    bhahaha, did he really just say this?? Jon Stewart take on (sic) Gleen Becks teaching explains why it’s hardly creditable.

    Talk about brainwashed

  • jeffe

    Well, I don’t speak Arabic or Hebrew, but my tax dollars have been supporting Israel and the PLO for years. I don’t have much respect for Muslims because most Muslims don’t respect themselves. Where are the moderate Muslims? When are they going to go after the radicals within their ranks? Mr. Williams was fired for making an honest comment and NPR needs to apologize.
    Posted by William,

    The evidence for this that you see within the billion or so Muslims from around the world? This kind of statement and more from above in support for Williams reminds me of how ugly some Americans can be. We did this to the Japanese in WW2 to point of interning tens of thousands of them. While their sons, fathers, and brothers went off to fight in the war. Right now William there are Muslims in uniform putting their lives on the line for your freedom to say crap like this.

    The 442nd Regimental Combat Team was the most decorated unit for its size and length of service, in the entire history of the U.S. Military. They did this while people like William here were demonizing them.

    I’ve never given it thought myself, about Muslims on planes. I have more fear of the TSA taking apart my stuff and doing dumb things to water bottles than any women dressed in a hijab.

  • Beverly

    Speaking of “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell”, yesterday I heard Paul Reikhoff on the radio, on behalf of every brave American, gay or “straight”, who is risking life & limb for us, in Iraq & Afghanistan, & for veterans of these wars.

    Mr. Reikhoff is with the not for profit, nonpartisan group, IAVA. Their congressional Report Card has just been released, & it is truly shameful. It grades each congressman & senator, according to how much support they have given to our courageous men & women who have fought for them. Mr Reikhoff was pleading with his listeners to VOTE OUT OF OFFICE every person who consistently refuses to help our warriors. Their is a list, telling how each of them has voted, at their website: IAVAACTION.ORG The Report Card is shocking, but not really so surprising. You can find the grades for everyone in your district, either by entering your address, or by entering the name of the person whose grade you are checking. At the top of the page, you can find out who got A or A+, & who got disgraceful Ds.

    Only 2 of them rated an F; TOM COBURN, & JIM DEMINT.

    It should surprise no one, that C.R.E.W.’s most corrupt politician, ROY BLUNT, scored a D, as did MITCH McCONNELL, JOHN BOEHNER, RON PAUL, RUSS FEINGOLD, & JOHN McCAIN.

    Also not surprising, is the fact that all who flunked are Conservatives; Republicans, or Blue Dogs (AKA Republicans).

    We owe it to every American in the Military, to make sure that only those who support them will get our votes. It’s top priority. Those politicians are supposed to be working for US, not Wall Street & the GOP, in any of its guises. Our soldiers need us, so please search your conscience, & do the right thing . . . for them.

    Our homesick servicemen & women will be very lonely this Christmas, thinking of their loved ones so far away. Fortunately, the USO is there to help. Their mission “is to provide morale, welfare, & recreation-type services to uniformed military personnel”. Bob Hop was overseas with 199 fabulous USO shows. My husbans was fortunate enough to attend one of them during the Viet Nam War, & he still raves about that experience.

    The USO provides much-appreciated care packages, which contain necessities that can’t be found in Iraq or Afghanistan, like phone cards, so they can call their families. Please give generously, (USO.org), & vote the way our fighters would want you to. They’re fighting for us, & counting on us. Please don’t let them down.

    .

  • michael

    “Sad to say, there “is” a liberal agenda. And more and more people are outraged at the arrogance of the “liberal” agenda, just as they were at the “neoconservative” agend a few short years ago. People want an Agenda of and by the People. That is so not radical.”

    Hardly, Bryon York, David Brooks, Matthew Continetti, are constants guest and brought on as experts on nearly all of the NPR programs, 2008 and 2009 still shows that the PAC’s and Think Tanks on NPR slant to the center and right in terms of appearances and citing by NPR shows, ATC,ME,TOLN,

    NPR will often recycle stories with the fox news slant example (the Mosque at ground zero) yet reality it was an community center with an mosque inside.

    NPR often takes the government side/right in reporting on the military and things that may shine a bad light. As well one could look at how NPR covers Torture and refusal to call it such instead going with the right’s Enhanced interrogation instead.

    Lets not forget NPR has banned the word Teabagger on its website cause it offend some . As well the ombudsman called for the word goddam to be censored.

  • michael

    Don’t forget,

    The censorship of Harry Shearer “the big easy” using the Dibs rule yet allowing

    To say that NPR is somehow ultra liberal is to be unbelievable delusional or just plainly uninformed.

    Plus beside the countless evidence of Fox’s intentional biased especially on the Oreily show. Even Williams response today is unprofessional

  • michael

    Don’t forget,

    The censorship of Harry Shearer “the big easy” using the Dibs rule yet allowing for it’s staff to abuse it a few weeks after.

  • Matt from CA

    No- I do not have the same feelings as Juan when I see people in “Muslim garb.” If any feeling comes to mind its an interest in culture- not a fear of people wearing different clothes. What does scare me is people that harbor fear and hate- because its fearful people that can walk down the wrong path.

  • michael

    “admit they are not a news program, but an opinion one. I accept the fact that O’Reilly and NPR have opinions, but give more credit to Fox for being honest about it (and I’ve seen the reaction of people on this web site, when anyone says anything nice about Fox).”

    Really? When did bill admit and others admit such? Or he’s not a journalist or his show is not an news program? On his radio show in the past he stated many times he’s the no-spin zone and reports the news as objective? Many cite his show as evidence and many times Oreily have stated that he was an journalist and considered himself an journalist when he interviewed President Obama.

    What Honesty are you talking about? Fair and Balance? Brett Hume? Bill K.? Gleen B? Hantitiy? Fox and Friends? Laura I? Many times it’s stated that they speaking the truth and being honesty even when it’s proven later they clearly were not.

    The only person I give credit to or respect there is Sheppard Smith who can(sometimes) call out the bull on his own network.

  • Bumstead

    Yeah, people should NOT BE FIRED for telling the truth. If one of the guests on those Fox shows hosted by one of their foxy blonds complimented them on their gorgeous figure and cleavage, there’s nothing wrong with that.

  • JL

    NPR has become a big and expanded player in recent years– since the $200 million bequest of Joan Kroc in 2003. They act more like a corporation, rather than the under-the-radar newscast they used to be. It’s a shame they couldn’t expand enough to accept Juan William’s view for what it is– an honest opinion, which in the full context of what he said, was blown completely out of proportion.

    NPR knee-jerked.

  • Potter

    Juan Williams reporting and hosting on NPR was never very good, rarely insightful. I think NPR and PBS (the Newshour particularly) are entirely too nervous and intimidated about being cast as too left wing when they are really not. So I thought that since Mr. Williams was obviously conservative or right wing he was a necessary addition.

    That he hung around Fox news and is ending up there, much richer in the process, says a lot, maybe all that is necessary. The stench of Fox News was bound to affect NPR’s reputation if it kept Williams on.

  • MARSHA H.

    As a liberal, I must say I’m appalled at the actions of NPR in firing Juan Williams — who I think has done a pretty good job of walking the political highwire for years! Talk about an over-reaction! Talk about hypocrisy! It does make one wonder why this happened within a DAY of George Soros donating 1.8 million dollars to NPR — in fact, the obnoxious and haughty Vivian Schiller personally announced the firing and the donation. While I’ve donated plenty in the past, I will never donate another dime to NPR.

  • Marsha H.

    Just as a side note — I went to find the article on the NYTimes website, and coundn’t find even a link to it on the main page! Then I searched it — and at least in the version available at about 12:30pm EST — it was completely buried on page B2. Of course the Times is Vivian Schiller’s old playground.

  • Ann

    CAM (Oct. 22, 9:59 a.m.),

    Please don’t quit your membership in WBUR. My station in a nearby state lets us listen to two excellent WBUR programs: On Point and Here & Now.

    Think about the extraordinary range of research that Tom Ashbrook and Robin Young and their staffs have command of FIVE DAYS A WEEK!!!

    Not only that, but these two SPLENDID JOURNALISTS retain what they’ve learned! They can, when a caller or guest mentions a situation (political or otherwise) from the past, REMEMBER the facts and profile of that previous event or circumstance! I certainly can’t do that, especially on the RANGE OF TOPICS that they cover each and every weekday.

    I find the same to be true of the other fantastic journalists (AND their staffs!) at NPR. Gustavo, above, wants to have NPR get rid of Neal Conan and Ken Rudin. I’d say the same thing about those two journalists that I said about Tom and Robin.

    Think about how quickly Jackie Lyden (sp?) and others fill in for hosts when they are away. That takes AMAZING journalistic abilities!

    I DO wish the head administrators at NPR had let the discussion about Juan Williams go on a bit longer, maybe even allowing public comment. Juan’s pieces HAVE seemed “lazier” to me lately, and THAT could be called into question via issues regarding journalistic EFFORT. BUT, throw the baby out with the bath water? I’ll ask you to please re-consider!

    One more thing about Tom’s style of interviewing. I think it is amazing. Someone, above, said that he sometimes wishes he knew what Tom’s personal POV was, and then the post-er said something similar (I think) to what I’m about to say: I love that we don’t know Tom’s POV on MOST things; his style causes him to so often pull things out from a guest or caller by siding with them, OTHER TIMES by challenging them from opposite their POV! I feel that his style provides a DYNAMIC BALANCE, not just an equally balanced, staid set of parallel presentations, but dynamic balance where ideas come in CONTACT with each other and sometimes clash and othertimes underscore and confirm each other. It’s STILL up to us, as individuals, to figure out what we conclude from all of this, or, how much more we still want to investigate before reaching a judgment!

    Thanks!

  • jeffe

    MARSHA you might want to rethink that.
    He was fired after repeated warnings about abusing his contract with NPR. He was given plenty of rope.

    He was not supposed to go on FOX programs like the O’Reilly factor, period. It was in his contract.

    It’s not good for people to jump to conclusions.
    He was fired for a good reason. This was the last straw.

    The right wingers here, well why are you here if you dislike NPR so much.

  • John

    NPR didn’t say they fired him for violating his contract. The reason given was not that he appeared on Fox in violation of his contract but that “His remarks on The O’Reilly Factor this past Monday were inconsistent with our editorial standards and practices, and undermined his credibility as a news analyst with NPR,” http://www.wbur.org/npr/130712737/npr-ends-williams-contract-after-muslim-remarks

    I’m a liberal Democrat so I’m not writing to advance the rights agenda by attacking NPR.

  • michael

    “NPR didn’t say they fired him for violating his contract. The reason given was not that he appeared on Fox in violation of his contract but that “His remarks on The O’Reilly Factor this past Monday were inconsistent with our editorial standards and practices, and undermined his credibility as a news analyst with NPR,” http://www.wbur.org/npr/130712737/npr-ends-williams-contract-after-muslim-remarks

    From the NPR ombudsman

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/ombudsman/2010/10/21/130713285/npr-terminates-contract-with-juan-williams

    This was far from an isolated incident.
    Williams’ appearances on Fox News, especially O’Reilly’s show, have caused heartburn repeatedly for NPR over the last few years. Management said he’s been warned several times that O’Reilly is a professional provocateur and to be careful.
    In early 2009, Williams said on O’Reilly of Michelle Obama: “She’s got this Stokely Carmichael-in-a-designer-dress thing going. If she starts talking . . . her instinct is to start with this blame America, you know, I’m the victim. If that stuff starts to coming out, people will go bananas and she’ll go from being the new Jackie O. to being something of an albatross.”

    Jeffe is right on this,anyone can read move on the Ombudsmans page. This was not the first and the last comment against Michelle obama forced him and NPR to change there contract agreement.

  • Dave

    Tale of 3 Capitalisms

    http://blog.iea.org.uk/?p=4879

  • michael

    As noted by the NPR ombudsman,

    “After other inflammatory comments on Fox, in April 2008 NPR changed Williams’ role from news correspondent (a reporting job) to news analyst. In this contract position, he was expected to report, think quickly and give his own analysis – while carefully choosing his words on any given subject.”

    One reason he was fired, according to Vivian Schiller, NPR’s CEO, is that the company felt he wasn’t performing the role of a news analyst:
    “News analysts may not take personal public positions on controversial issues; doing so undermines their credibility as analysts, and that’s what’s happened in this situation,” said Schiller in an email to NPR member stations, some of which are upset about Williams’ firing.
    “As you all well know,” she continued, “we offer views of all kinds on your air every day, but those views are expressed by those we interview – not our reporters and analysts.”

  • michael

    “Tale of 3 Capitalisms

    http://blog.iea.org.uk/?p=4879

    Kevin Dowd makes a weak case and China’s own staterun ecomony flies in the face of his agruement, as well U.S. investors and companies had no problem moveing companies and control to the China

    Than we have credit defaults swaps that protect such shareholder where one could in fact bet on something they do not even hold or bet on both ends to still come out winner not to mention high speed trading that gives investors will large chunks of money a advantage of people that do not, so if an crass or down spin were to happen such Investors and shareholders have the ability to limit there losses or make an profit.

    The only actual truth in the blog you link to is

    “Not surprisingly, management remuneration increases sharply, and the focus shifts to the short run: long-term industrial logic gives way to short-term “pop” and, in the (all too common) worst cases, to senior management’s unconstrained Napoleonic fantasies.”

    Of course the Napoleonic fantasie at the end is a bit much.

  • michael

    “In this form of capitalism, the financial sector is dominant: it is the biggest sector in the economy – thus, trading stocks and similar activities (such as shuffling paper) becomes more important than say, making things or providing useful services such as health or education.”

    is another thing i can agree on but this is hardy new, and seems a good reason to have better and stronger regulations in place and enforced. Plus an good case against Reaganomics.

    But thanks for the link,

  • dnxtlvl

    Shame on America

    Racist
    Sexist
    Intollerant

    Wake up. Grow up. Or Shut up.

  • JP

    Way to go NPR!!!!

    You should definitely separate NPR from FOX style, hateful and moronic editorializing and fear-mongering.

    As far as THIS listener is concerned, Juan Williams had outlived his welcome among the sane long ago.

    I am looking forward to continued sanity from NPR, and just made my contribution to my local public radio station, KUT of Austin!

  • Dave

    If you can stomach the Fox, and get through the first couple minutes of the host, gets to Ron Paul and some basic ideas that alot of people are thinking about right now.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h45Ivg7W4V0

  • jeffe

    John NPR did say he violated his contract, and it was clear to me that was why he was fired.
    He violated his contract. I use wonder about this for years after he showed up Fox news on Sunday and there he was being a pundit when I know damn well he’s supposed to be a journalist. You can’t be both and be credible.

    They fired that hack over at CNN for making anti-Semitic remarks, I don’t see much of a difference.

    NPR has been looking for a reason to get rid of Williams, he handed it to them on a plate.

  • B. Healy

    Ridiculous–why on earth would anyone be MORE frightened of a person in Muslim garb on a plane?

    Please try to remember: the hijackers did not wear Muslim garb. Why would a potential suicide bomber be so stupid as to out himself or herself with the traditional trappings of their religion when there are obviously so many narrow-minded, FOX-frightened sheep around, ready to attack them if they step wrong?

  • dave

    There are alternatives….

    “First, I was intrigued by the idea of an anti-war Republican, of a libertarian Republican running against Pelosi, challenging her on issues Republicans traditionally couldn’t.”

    http://reason.com/archives/2010/10/22/the-man-who-could-really-fire

  • wavre

    To Mister Juan Williams

    How many hijackers were dressed with robes and turbans?

    I thought a famous and educated journalist like you would have known better! I guess to be able to keep your job at “Fox news” a certain type of discourses go a long way.

    I used to be a fan of yours… way back, when you were more honest, freer and i guess poorer. It was quiet astonishing to witness along the years, the change of sensitivity, from the voice for justice for the poor and minorities to the condescending star journalist “who had made it and if I could anybody can do it, BS”

    You are willingly letting your image of “moderate liberal” be used to give Fox news some credibility with independents. For it alone, in my opinion, you are more harmful to the truth than The Glenn Beck, O’reilly, Hannetty and the likes.

    Sorry, sir, but good riddance!

  • Dave

    Progressives supporting Liberty candidates….

    In San Fran even!

    http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2010/10/matt_gonzalez_nancy_pelosi_john_dennis.php

  • Not a Cahnce

    Some public stations are having fund drives right now… I urge you all to donate generously to counter the faux outrage by the right over the justified firing of Juan Williams.

    These bigots and xenophobes deserve to be shut down mightily, and that’s easily enough done if we all stick together against the fascist right.

  • Michele R.

    I agree completely with Yar and Chris M. The news has devolved into the promotion of sensationalist ideas because they are easier topics to cover. Not much effort needed to cover a few comments by an NPR analyst. Covering real events costs money, resources, and requires considered thought. Sound bites rule the scene.

  • Roberto

    Am listening to this again tonight; really struggling to decide whether decision to fire ok. First. Shriller CEO messed up what might have been the corrent BUSINESS decision. Second, Tom A offer her the BEST snipper which hides her gaffe. Third, if NPR was so upset with JW’s Fox role (or comments), how the heck did it not deal with this in crystal clear terms prior? And anyone who really thinks most NPR programs are “unbiased” is not really listening with discriminating ear. And Jack — admitting that you “sometimes” show your cards is almost laughable. You are one of THE most regular guests on TOm’s show, and I frankly don’t believe that is “balance” — Juan may have overspoken what PCers will allow, but Jack is reguarly far left of left. Why is THAT ok?

  • Roberto

    Saym, Jack; that is very colleagial view your just expressed — that JW’s “but” was lost, as an “accommodating” guest of Bill R. Do I take it that you formally registered your complaint with NPR? Or that you will refuse to be paid/”appear” until the powers that be at NPR go one step further to explain their decision — as well as their acknowlegement, CEO Shriller got a bit too excited in front of the mike?

    If not, you are a coward.

    As for Ann, in VT, I too enjoy listening. But I will no longer put my $$ behind this org — not a good cause anymore.

  • LinP

    Juan Williams was always a lightweight in my book. SO many times I’d switch stations when he was on. Not much lost, IMO.

  • Trii

    Tom and staff,

    Thank you so much for your consistent attempts to present a broad perspective of today’s current news. I can hear in your broadcasts the combined challenge of difficulty and importance of your coverage. Again, my appreciation for your efforts.

  • Joshua Hendrickson

    I don’t think Juan Williams’s comments were racist. Stupid and paranoid–but honest about those feelings–and ill-informed, yes, but not racist. With the exception of Judaism (and, to an extent, Hinduism), no religion is composed of one narrowly-conceived “race.” This is especially true of Christianity, Islam, and Buddhism–all proselytizing missionary religions, out to convert as many human beings as they can. That, my conservative Christian friends, is why it is not bigoted or racist or prejudiced to attack the followers of Christianity or of Islam–these are things you choose to be, not things your genetics forced you to be, and even if parents/culture shaped you to be a believer, you can still choose not to be. Sorry, but while race is not a viable object of attack (and never was), as far as religion goes, it’s open season.

  • click (here) to delete

    In other news….wikileaks proves once again we should have blown Iraq to hell in Desert Storm when we had the chance…failure to act has cost American lives, money, and the respect of the a-rabs.

  • Greg Powell

    Came to the conversation late, and maybe you already covered this, but doesn’t NPR have a policy of not having its comentators expressing personal political opinions in the public sphere?

    I have a friend of a friend who works for NPR who apparently can’t go to John Stewart’s Rally for Sanity, because she doesn’t want to jeopardize her job.

  • Sundar Nagarajan

    The Trust Survey 2010 conducted in India, and the cover story of Reader’s Digest, reveals the 100 people Indians trust the most. Top of the list is Dr. Abdul Kalam and 7th is Dr. Manmohan Singh. Interestingly, both are national leaders (President and Prime Minister), highly Educated, and are from minority religions. At this time, it is a contrast from the US where we are unable to accept leaders from minority religions (Barak Obama, Piyush Amrit Jindal & Nimrata Haley feel it necessary to remind us that they are Christians), we don’t seem to value education in our leaders (we like folksy, O’Donnell, Palin etc.) and don’t trust our national leaders.

    I wonder if a similar survey was conducted in the US today who will top the list. Will the most trusted has to be Christian, Not well educated, and not in public office?

  • Susan D. Miner

    There is no such thing as “Muslim garb” except perhaps the commonality that many, but not all, Muslim women around the world wear headscarves of one kind or another in public. Generally speaking, Muslims all over the world, particularly the men, wear the same clothing as that worn other people in the countries and cultures where they live, whether as a majority or minority. Muslim men in Indonesia do not dress in the same “garb” as men in Saudi Arabia. Juan William’s comments reveal his ignorance and prejudice regarding Muslims and that alone destroys his credibility as a reporter, especially on NPR where we expect a higher standard than the biased echo chamber drivel that passes for reporting at most news outlets. His comments may also reveal a prejudice against women as it is likely that the only Muslim “garb” recognizable by an American man is a headscarf. So Juan is afraid when he sees a woman in a headscarf on a plane? That woman has undoubtedly been subjected to heightened scrutiny coming through security. What an irrational “fraidy-cat.” He should be ashamed. When I see these women, I salute their courage for facing the rabid Islamophobia running rampant in America.

  • Julie Rohwein

    @Susan D. Miner– I agree! Thank you for saying it.

  • jeffe

    Susan while I agree with you I don’t think the should have fired him. A heavy reprimand, let him resign if he wanted to. I’ve never liked his act myself, however recent messages coming down from the head of NPR have been absurd.
    For instance, banning NPR employees from going to John Stuarts rally?

    What is the idea behind that?

  • david

    Be forewarned Tom, now that George Soros has a stake in NPR, you better tow the straight liberal line or you and Onpoint may be next.
    Soros has bought 100 journalist to jump for him.
    It is strange that in the same week Soros buys into NPR, Juan is fired in the very same week!
    Also strange Soros gives 1Mil to Media Matters.
    All inorder to silence the opposing view point.
    All this money and effort to go after Beck and Fox tells me something! Maybe George wants to be King of world????

  • buddhaclown

    If NPR was trying to champion neutrality and objectivity in firing Juan Williams, then why is everyone crying that this is proof of their liberal bias?

    If NPR was genuinely firing him because he was making bigoted comments, then why did they choose a segment in which he was actually trying to defend Muslims against bigotry?

    If NPR objects to Juan Williams for appearing on a program that feeds off of soundbites and misdirection, then why did NPR use a soundbite out of context and misdirection to justify their firing of Mr. Williams?

    If NPR objects to Juan Williams expressing an opinion . . . then why is it that no one can tell me what that opinion even was? Was it Mr. Williams opinion that we should all fear Muslims? No? Then why was he fired?

    If he wasn’t fired for his opinion, then why does NPR management say that he was?

    If NPR believes it is just demanding journalistic standards, then why is everyone so outraged?

    If Juan Williams had a long string of offenses, then why can’t anyone name more than the comment he made about Mrs. Obama?

    10 years of excellent journalism and contribution to NPR — I always found him to be one of the more insightful commentators — and he gets shafted for defending Muslims against bigotry?

    NPR seems to have done this out of an intolerance for Fox News — and I don’t blame them — but why is it that today I’m having a hard time separating the two organizations?

  • Ann

    “If NPR objects to Juan Williams for appearing on a program that feeds off of soundbites and misdirection, then why did NPR use a soundbite out of context and misdirection to justify their firing of Mr. Williams” (Oct. 22, 11:29 p.m.)

    Buddhaclown, You express this SO well. Thank you! I guess the thing is, tho, we don’t KNOW if that is the nub of the matter, OR if something else regarding the language of his contract is the core issue.

    Thanks for saying what I was struggling to hear within my own thoughts about the matter!

  • Ann

    “As for Ann, in VT, I too enjoy listening. But I will no longer put my $$ behind this org — not a good cause anymore.” Roberto, Oct. 22, 7:29 p.m.

    Roberto, does that mean you are going to stop listening? We’re all doing a lot of talking about ethics. What about the ethics of listening regularly to NPR without pledging? (I’m not saying that YOU might do this.) This incident COULD spell financial difficulty for NPR. I firmly believe in pledging if you listen, even if you can only afford a small amount. If everyone gives what they can, the system can work. Right now Sarah Palin, apparently, is already urging that NPR’s miniscule amount of federal funding be taken away from NPR due to this incident. If that were to happen, it would be even more imperative that we all give. I think the Right is flying like a vulture over this incident just because they want to de-fund the network. The idea of that woman dismantling such a brilliant public asset is appalling. So, I’m just asking, if you say you’re not going to pledge, are you still going to listen?

    Ann (not the Ann in VT)

  • Michael

    “Be forewarned Tom, now that George Soros has a stake in NPR, you better tow the straight liberal line or you and Onpoint may be next.
    Soros has bought 100 journalist to jump for him.
    It is strange that in the same week Soros buys into NPR, Juan is fired in the very same week!
    Also strange Soros gives 1Mil to Media Matters.
    All inorder to silence the opposing view point.
    All this money and effort to go after Beck and Fox tells me something! Maybe George wants to be King of world????”

    Be forewarn David that rupert murdoch also donates to NPR well over 1 million (Fox Searchlight Pictures)100k to 299k (20th Century Fox Home Entertainment)(FX Networks)50k to 99k FOX Broadcasting Company

    http://www.npr.org/about/aboutnpr/annualreports/NPRSponsorsDonors08.pdf

    http://www.woopidoo.com/biography/rupert-news-corporation.htm

    It seems Murdoch has a state as well you better tow the straight Conservative line or you and Onpoint may be next.

  • Michael

    “It is strange that in the same week Soros buys into NPR”

    oh I get it, NPR and Soro’s planned to have Juan on Bill O show and say what he did.

    Makes perfect sense. :O, in need of a bridge i’m selling?

  • Michael

    “Also strange Soros gives 1Mil to Media Matters.”

    speaking as such American crossroads recived half it’s funding from Texas home-builder Bob Perry

    http://newsfeedresearcher.com/data/articles_n43/millions-crossroads-american.html

    What do tell does that tell you? It’s 15 times what Soros gave.

  • Michael

    Correction it was 7 Million

    “What do tell does that tell you? It’s 7 times what Soros gave.”

  • Michael

    Just in case,

    Bob J. Perry, the Texas homebuilder known for bankrolling Republican causes, gave $7 million between Sept. 1 and Oct. 13 to American Crossroads, the Republican campaign fund associated with GOP strategists Karl Rove and Ed Gillespie, according to reports Crossroads said it plans to file with the Federal Election Commission tonight. The donation, accounting for nearly half of Crossroads’ fund-raising during the period, makes Mr. Perry the group’s biggest donor by far this fall. His donation, made in a series of checks, is one of the biggest individual political contributions of all time.

    David i like to hear your thoughts and concerns on Mr. Perry.

    Maybe Perry wants to be King of world????

  • William

    NPR is making the deal with the devil by taking money from the radical leftist George Soros.

  • Fred

    To NPR Audio Engineers: Jonathan Martin sounded like he was broadcasting from inside a tiny cardboard box. Not one of your better efforts.

  • JonS

    Vivian Schiller should be fired. Her firing of Juan Williams was totally unjustified and smacked of political correctness gone wild. And her off-handed comments that Juan’s psychiatrist and PR person should be consulted to get a better understanding of his “feelings” were disgusting. Juan Williams is a decent thoughtful spokesperson for moderate liberal points of view . His is a voice of reason that NPR and America needs to hear more of , not less. NPR’s reaction smacks of absolute hypocrisy. As other posters have said, had Juan criticized the Tea party as racists, Sarah Palin, etc then no problem. Moreover , where was Ms Schiller when Nina Totenberg made her disgusting comments about Jessie Helms?

  • George Potts

    How can NPR call themselves a news organization when nobody who works there will defend Juan Williams?

  • Rob (In NY)

    Regarding NPR’s firing of Juan Williams, based on the statements of NPR executives it would seem to me that it was based on Williams’ statements, rather than a specific contract violation. However, none of us are privy to the specific contract betweeen Williams and NPR so we really can not have an informed opinion on whether Williams violated his contract and if so whether NPR treated contract violations by other journalistsin a similar manner. If Williams was fired for his statements, it sets a dangerous precedent when news organizations (exepcially those who receive tax payer financing)fire journalists for giving opinions, particulary when the journalist’s job is at least partially related to editorial type programming.

  • Potter

    I think the firing of Juan Williams was in part about NPR needing to distance itself from Fox ( and the propaganda circus there) to maintain journalistic standards. I don’t recall any other NPR journalist, in it’s long history, having crossed the line that Williams crossed. It’s obvious Mr. Williams preferred to hang his hat at Fox. He will be paid much more and be able to say whatever he wants. Bye bye.

    At NPR Juan Williams was advanced to an analyst position even though his reporting and analysis was very mediocre. A poster above writes she tuned out when Williams came on. Me too! In my opinion he was given plenty of rope with which to hang himself.

    The late Daniel Schorr gave strong opinions as senior analyst and they were separate from the news and labeled as such on NPR. Those opinions, even in his last years, were educated and well thought out and very insightful. Williams was no Schorr.

    There are already those, particularly at Fox with the aid of Williams himself, feeling he’s been done wrong (“they fired me for telling the truth”), who will cry that this proves NPR’s left bias, calling for NPR’s funds to be cut even though the government does not give much money to NPR directly. In any case I hope NPR stands up to this ( and maybe raised funds from this). I hope we don’t experience the kind of chill that I feel listening to PBS Newshour these days.

    http://www.thefoxnation.com/npr/2010/10/21/calls-defund-npr-mount

  • http://LitGriot.com Diepiriye Kuku

    I am genuinely offended that Mr.Ashbrook did not push back on your guest, Ms. Tumulty, on her proclamation that she’s objective in her reporting and analysis. Ironically, the implicit biases that penetrate us all seemed to be the very point Juan Williams made on Fox, though sadly his comments were cut and cropped like the firing that happened just a few months back. Mr. Williams was cleary hammering the point that objectivity is a farce. Would it had been better had be depersonalized his point and simply mentioned empirical research? What about all the Pew Research center evidence on implicit bias, or that recent Harvard psychology study? I wish that your guests were as courageous as Juan. Worse, Mr. Ashbrook, even you made one of those classic PC blunders when reporting about the viral “I Love my Hair” Sesame Street video. In your introduction, you originally said that the video “raced” to top, but your corrected yourself and used a less racy word. That’s horrible because the pun was funny, but you treated it as if it were some slur. That’s PC culture, and you demonstrated your own implicit discomfort with ‘race’ as a subject, which is precisely what Juan WIlliams owned up to on Fox. Yet, unless we all own up to our own genuine lack of comfort in discussing race in mixed company, then those voices, like Mr. WIlliams’, will be erased.

  • Rob

    Michael commented above regarding American Crossroads and Perry. I am sure your statements are factual, but the liberal implication by President Obama and others that corporations and conservative organizations are the largest spenders in “independent election outlays” is just plain false. Here is a list of top spenders in the 2009-10 election cycle among independent groups compiled by the Center for Responsive Politics, which appeared in yesterday’s WSJ and is now in other newspapers.

    1) Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees ( AFSCME): $87.5 million (labor union, Democrats)
    2)US Chamber of Commerce: $75 million ( Corporate, Republicans)
    3)American Crossroads and Crossroads GOP $65 million (Corporate, Republicans)
    4)Service Employees International Union: $44 million (labor union, Democrats)
    5) National Education Association: $40 million (labor union, Democrats)

    Among these top 5 “independent” spenders, Republican leaning groups spent $140 million and Democratic leaning groups spent $171.5 million. The appalling liberal hypocrisy on this issue continues to amaze me. Liberals criticize the US Chamber of Commerce and American Crossroads, but are silent regarding AFSME, SEIU, and the NEA. The bottom line is organized labor is a much a beneficiary of the recent Supreme Court decision as corporations.

  • Michael

    Hi Rob,

    I have to question your #’s stated by the Center for Public Integrity these such groups are estimated to spending 500 Million that’s 360 million more than what you stated, The center expects GOP-aligned groups will likely outspend their Democratic counterparts by more than 30%.

    As well The Chamber has stated more than once that they plan to spend over $75 million american crossroads 50 Million and this is only adding up the 2 parts of American cross roads and the Chamber

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/10/05/american-crossroads-and-affiliate-announce-major-ad-buy/

    http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2010/10/the_chamber_of_commerce_is_app.html

  • JonS

    I don’t understand all the posters who routinely rail against Fox News. It’s 6:00pm news with Brett Baer is informative , “fair and balanced” and its panel discussion with Charles Krauthammer, Juan Williams, et.al is always interesting and thought-provoking. Criticism of Bill O’Reilly and Sean Hannity is a red herring . They are commentators and not reporters. In any event, I always thought that the First Amendment permitted different points of view. Too many critics on the left believe only “progressive ideas” deserve first amendment protection. Political correctness is really nothing more than intolerance with points of view that adherents of political correctness deem to be illegitimate. It’s ironic that the university campus , supposedly the center for the free exchange of ideas, has become ground zero for political correctness.

  • http://www.richardsnotes.org Richard

    buddhaclown has made one of the best comments I’ve read in a long while here October 22nd, 2010 at 11:29 PM.

    As one who regularly defends NPR from people who watch FOX News and use that platform to judge NPR’s lean (relative to FOX, NPR is a socialist conspiracy) I have to say Schiller may have gone too far if she fired Williams to defend against uneducated folks calling NPR a left leaning organization.

    Many people who judge NPR as left leaning don’t know the difference between editorial commentary and news reporting because they watch FOX and FOX mixes the two constantly. FOX news anchors drop their opinions while reporting news regularly and whether or not you think NPR newscasters (not talk radio hosts) do this, in all the years I’ve listened to NPR news I think they’ve attempted to keep it neutral.

    To be fair (and balanced), MSNBC does this as well with their news and I don’t like it even though it’s closer to my political lean. Rachel Maddow’s show is not a news show, it’s opinion and I happen to agree and like it but I know the difference.

    For those who don’t know, onPoint is not an NPR news show and doesn’t come out of National Public Radio’s “mothership.” Morning Edition and All Things Considered are NPR’s news magazines but even within those shows there’s news reporting and there’s opinion (the late Schorr, David Brooks) and I think both shows do an excellent job of keeping things separate, even if some listeners don’t know the difference.

    I love onPoint but I know that it reflects Tom Ashbrook’s and the show’s producers’ filters on what’s newsworthy and which guests to bring on. While I think Tom does a good job of attempting to keep it even (relative to FOX or MSNBC) he’s got opinions and they leak in. No problem, those who don’t like his opinions or leanings can change channels. onPoint is not NPR news, it’s onPoint.

    To assume that every show on NPR or FOX or MSNBC has to be neutral is naive. I love that Rachel Maddow has a show but for news, I watch PBS NewsHour. FOX can do as they please, of course, but it’s up to us to understand the difference between news and opinion. Don’t watch Maddow or O’Reilly for news, watch them for opinion and know what you’re getting.

    It may be that Schiller went too far in firing Juan Williams but I do think what she’s attempting to do is worthwhile: to keep personal opinion out of reporting and keep it on the op/ed page.

    This is why she’s preventing her staff from attending (even to report on) the John Stewart rally on the mall. Is this going too far? Maybe but again, what she’s attempting to do is to keep her reporters out of the editorial opinion area as much as possible to differentiate NPR from FOX and MSNBC.

    It’s a shame that this incident has already backfired on her because I think her intensions were good, even if poorly executed.

  • Michael

    Hi Rob,

    My point as well was David comment of Soro’s spending 1 million dollar yet his silences about Perry spending 7 times that. It seems but I maybe wrong you are basing your # on what David Brooks stated in his article an few days ago that turned out to be misleading and false,

    This piece by Glenn Greenward points holes in the whole thing,

    http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/10/19/brooks/index.html

    “Given that all of this funding can be (and is being) directed to close races, and given that the vast bulk of this funding is completely unknown and anonymous (a five-fold increase in anonymous spending since 2006), it requires misleading formulations to depict these amounts as insignificant and trivial in the scheme of things. With his column today, Brooks seems to have relied on exactly that approach to make his point. Brooks purposely concealed from his readers that just these two entities alone were spending $140 million to shape election outcomes — most of which are from unknown sources — because that fact renders Brooks’ dismissal absurd on its face.”

    Brooks was apparently using the opensecrets.org site, which lists current spending by SEIU as $14 million, rather than the $8 million listed by the Post. That site, however, also lists the combined totals for Rove’s two groups (American Crossroads and Crossroads GPS) as more than $21 million, not the $13 million which Brooks attributed to Rove. Most important, by concealing from his readers the actual, massive totals these groups acknowledge they will spend — with the majority to be spent in the final weeks before the election — Brooks deliberately makes the amounts seem far smaller than they will be.

    Had Brooks disclosed the truth to his readers about the actual, planned spending of the Chamber and Rove — as well as, as Time’s Michael Crowley notes, the $90 million expected to be spent by Haley Barbour’s Republican Governors’ Association on governors’ races alone — Brooks simply could not maintain with a straight face that the issue of outside spending makes little difference. So he simply hid those facts from his readers by choosing to present these facts in the most misleading light possible.

  • Michael

    Hi Rob,

    I try to check out for that 87.5 Million and found this,by the Wastinton Post (hardly liberal)

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaign/2010/spending/American-Federation-of-State-County-and-Municipal-Employees.html

    American Federation of State County and Municipal Employees has reported spending a total of $7,488,083 on independent campaigning so far this year, with 100% benefiting Democratic candidates. Back to group list.

    Could you help, the only source i found stating otherwise was Fox News.

    Thanks,

  • Rob

    Hi Michael,
    The source of my numbers are AFSCME itself and the Center for Responsive Politics. There was an article in the news section (not editorial pages) of yesterday’s WSJ and I believe these numbers were in other publications as well. The numbers will probably change every day up to election day Regardless of which numbers were right (e.g probably more current), the broader point is that both labor unions and corporate interests will use the Supreme Court decision to their advantage and will point to perceived abuses by the other side to rally their side to donate. It is a vicious cycle and I am not sure there is a solution

  • MIchael

    “I don’t understand all the posters who routinely rail against Fox News. It’s 6:00pm news with Brett Baer is informative , “fair and balanced” and its panel discussion with Charles Krauthammer, Juan Williams, et.al is always interesting and thought-provoking.”

    And i’m sure you believe such, Bill K, Charles Krauthammer is hardly informative and an highly partisan on nearly every show, the National Review proves this out. As for Oreily He states himself that he is an journalist remember “NO SPIN ZONE” and it would be only obvious Juan appearing on his show or Hantity is not the brightest thing, as well Juan has substituted has hosted on the OReily show as well. Hardly an Red Herring like the poster claims it.

    Check out if you like,

    Geraldo Criticizes Bret Baier, Compares Him to Olbermann

    Even Brett interview with obama was Partisan and he kept interrupting the president
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNdLZA1rwx0

    Most of the guest on Brett show writes on this website and are hardly informative or fair.
    http://www.nationalreview.com/

    If you like or anyone else do not believe such i can post some shows showing what i stated.

  • Michael

    Hi Rob,

    Thanks of the clarification and i agree it’s a vicious cycle, what are your thoughts on disclosure?

  • Michael

    Thanks for the clarification and i agree it’s a vicious cycle, what are your thoughts on disclosure?

  • Michael

    “O’Reilly is forced to maintain simultaneously that his views aren’t conservative at all. He frequently proclaims his independence from all partisan agendas, as he wrote in his book: “See, I don’t want to fit any of those labels, because I believe that the truth doesn’t have labels.” On his show, he often angrily denies accusations of a conservative bent.

    There are two major reasons why O’Reilly denies holding conservative views. First, admitting his point of view would destroy the show’s premise of being TV’s “no-spin zone,” an oasis of straight-talk where ”

    slick ideologues are held to account.

    This is a favorite O’Reilly debating tactic: Faced with a factual statement he’s unable to rebut, he accuses his guest of stating an opinion. When a journalist mentioned Israel’s “illegal settlers” (7/18/00), O’Reilly replied: “All right, that’s your opinion!” When a drug-policy advocate said marijuana impairs driving less than alcohol does (1/3/00), the answer was, “Well, that’s your opinion!”

    http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1070

  • Michael

    The Most Biased Name in News
    Fox News Channel’s extraordinary right-wing tilt

    “I challenge anybody to show me an example of bias in Fox News Channel.”–Rupert Murdoch (Salon, 3/1/01)

    Years ago, Republican party chair Rich Bond explained that conservatives’ frequent denunciations of “liberal bias” in the media were part of “a strategy” (Washington Post, 8/20/92). Comparing journalists to referees in a sports match, Bond explained: “If you watch any great coach, what they try to do is ‘work the refs.’ Maybe the ref will cut you a little slack next time.”

    But when Fox News Channel, Rupert Murdoch’s 24-hour cable network, debuted in 1996, a curious thing happened: Instead of denouncing it, conservative politicians and activists lavished praise on the network. “If it hadn’t been for Fox, I don’t know what I’d have done for the news,” Trent Lott gushed after the Florida election recount (Washington Post, 2/5/01). George W. Bush extolled Fox News Channel anchor Tony Snow–a former speechwriter for Bush’s father–and his “impressive transition to journalism” in a specially taped April 2001 tribute to Snow’s Sunday-morning show on its five-year anniversary (Washington Post, 5/7/01). The right-wing Heritage Foundation had to warn its staffers not to watch so much Fox News on their computers, because it was causing the think tank’s system to crash.

    When it comes to Fox News Channel, conservatives don’t feel the need to “work the ref.” The ref is already on their side. Since its 1996 launch, Fox has become a central hub of the conservative movement’s well-oiled media machine. Together with the GOP organization and its satellite think tanks and advocacy groups, this network of fiercely partisan outlets–such as the Washington Times, the Wall Street Journal editorial page and conservative talk-radio shows like Rush Limbaugh’s–forms a highly effective right-wing echo chamber where GOP-friendly news stories can be promoted, repeated and amplified. Fox knows how to play this game better than anyone.

  • Michael

    Fox’s managing editor is Brit Hume, a veteran TV journalist and contributor to the conservative American Spectator and Weekly Standard magazines. Its top-rated talkshow is hosted by Bill O’Reilly, a columnist for the conservative WorldNetDaily.com and a registered Republican (that is, until a week before the Washington Post published an article revealing his party registration–12/13/00).

    The abundance of conservatives and Republicans at Fox News Channel does not seem to be a coincidence. In 1996, Andrew Kirtzman, a respected New York City cable news reporter, was interviewed for a job with Fox and says that management wanted to know what his political affiliation was. “They were afraid I was a Democrat,” he told the Village Voice (10/15/96). When Kirtzman refused to tell Fox his party ID, “all employment discussion ended,” according to the Voice.

    Catherine Crier, who was perceived as one of Fox’s most prestigious and credible early hires, was an elected Republican judge before starting a career in journalism. (Crier has since moved on to Court TV.) Pundit Mara Liasson–who is touted as an on-air “liberal” by Fox executives–sits on the board of the conservative human-rights group Freedom House; New York magazine (11/17/97) cited a Fox insider as saying that Liasson assured president Roger Ailes before being hired that she was a Republican.

    Now for Brett B.

    The most obvious sign of Fox’s slant is its heavily right-leaning punditry. Each episode of Special Report with Brit Hume, for example, features a three-person panel of pundits who chat about the day’s political news at the end of the show. The most frequent panelist is Fred Barnes, the evangelical Christian supply-sider who edits the Murdoch-owned Weekly Standard. He sits proudly on the rightward flank of the Republican party (and often scolds it for slouching leftwards).

    The next most frequent guest is Mort Kondrake, who sits in the middle of the panel. Politically, Kondrake falls at the very rightward edge of the Democratic party– if not beyond it. As he famously explained in a 1988 New Republic essay (8/29/88), he is a Democrat who is “disgusted with the Democratic Party” and whose main reason for not defecting to the Republicans is that they “have failed to be true to themselves as conservatives.” (He was referring to Reagan’s deficit spending.)

  • Michael

    Rounding out the panel is its third-most-frequent pundit, Mara Liasson, who sits on the opposite side of the table from the conservative Barnes, implicitly identifying her as a liberal. But her liberalism consists of little more than being a woman who works for National Public Radio; she has proposed that “one of the roots of the problem with education today is feminism” (Talk of the Nation, 5/3/01); she declares that “Jesse Jackson gets away with a lot of things that other people don’t” (Special Report, 6/21/00); she calls George W. Bush’s reversal on carbon dioxide emissions “a small thing” (3/14/01), campaign finance reform “an issue that . . . only 200 people in America care about” (3/19/01) and slavery reparations “pretty much of a non-issue” (3/19/01).

    Less frequent Special Report panelists include conservative Washington Times reporter Bill Sammon, centrist Fortune writer Jeff Birnbaum and NPR host Juan Williams. Williams, the only guest who could plausibly claim to be a liberal, was so outraged over attacks on his friend Clarence Thomas that he declared that “liberals have become monsters” (Washington Post, 10/10/91), denouncing the “so-called champions of fairness: liberal politicians, unions, civil rights groups and women’s organizations.” Indeed, Fox’s crew of “liberal” pundits seems almost calculated to be either ineffective left-of-center advocates or conciliatory moderates. Ironically, perhaps the only Fox commentator who consistently presents a strong progressive perspective–that is, critical of corporate power and militarism, and sympathetic to progressive social movements–is FAIR founder Jeff Cohen, a weekly panelist on the weekend media show Fox News Watch.

    http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1067

  • Christopher

    NPR should have fired Williams for taking a Fox News paycheck.

    I refuse any longer to accept the idea that Fox is just one news organization among many, one that just happens to have a more conservative bent.

    This is just not true. Fox News is not like other news organizations. Fox engages in relentless race-baiting and fear-mongering; Fox distorts the news as part of a business strategy. They counterfeit news for profit.

    A counterfeiter needs to make his phony look like the real thing. Williams should never been allowed to help Fox make their propaganda look more like the real thing — news analysis — by lending the operation the imprimatur and credibility of NPR.

    I do think it’s a good idea to encourage journalists and news analysts to keep their feelings to themselves when it comes to volatile, emotional issues.

    Let’s remember: Fox news EXISTS to whip up frenzy and hysteria over these kinds of issues. Williams should never have been there in the first place.

    Here’s a rule of thumb: when in doubt, a legitimate news organization should think carefully about what Fox News would do under similar circumstances and seriously consider doing the opposite. If Fox News would hire someone, NPR should consider firing him. If Fox News thinks something is important, it’s probably a distraction and ought to be ignored. That’s how I see it. Any questions?

  • Michael

    http://act.credoaction.com/campaign/stand_up_for_npr/?r_by=11971-2972575-Y2fdOqx&rc=confemail

    Tell Congress: Don’t cave to Sarah Palin. Stand up for NPR!

  • jeffe

    I just saw an article in this months Atlantic monthly about how the Federal Reserve has some 300 billion dollars of gold sitting in vaults doing nothing.

    I don’t know with the price of gold what it is now some of that could be used to help bring down the national debt or something maybe better, fund single payer health care.

    Wishful thinking…

  • Dave

    “The late Daniel Schorr gave strong opinions as senior analyst and they were separate from the news and labeled as such on NPR. Those opinions, even in his last years, were educated and well thought out and very insightful. Williams was no Schorr.”

    So long as we have the “right” opinions then.

  • Potter

    To Dave So long as we have the “right” opinions then.

    That is not what I said. Daniel Schorr gave those views and analysis, mostly very good analysis, like any newspaper columnist would. As senior analyst, he gave his opinion and on NPR. He did not go to Fox News and take a Fox news paycheck. Perhaps you disagree about the quality of Fox news and commentary. Alas, you are not alone.

    I believe that NPR is also making a courageous statement about Fox news by firing Williams. They are saying this is not journalism; this is not us.

    There’s lightyears of difference between the kind of opinion that Juan Williams was giving with the title of ” NPR analyst” on Fox and what Dan Schorr has been doing on NPR for many years: loaded with insight, always based on a wide and long understanding of the issues. Right or left is not the point.. more maybe right or wrong is the point. We should discuss that. NPR is also, with this move, making a statement about right and wrong. Bravo.

  • jeffe

    First off Dan Schorr was light years ahead of Williams in integrity and professionalism. You would never hear Dan Schorr saying every time he fly’s and sees a Muslim he feels unsafe. Who says things like that?

    How does he know who is a Muslim? By Hijab the women are wearing? By what? The fezzes? Or the keffiyeh?
    Which of the billion or so Muslims is he talking about?

  • millard_fillmore

    Susan wrote:
    “There is no such thing as “Muslim garb” except perhaps the commonality that many, but not all, Muslim women around the world wear headscarves of one kind or another in public.”
    ==

    Susan, tell that to these two liberals:

    1. President Obama won’t be visiting Sikh worshipers’ holiest site on his upcoming trip to India because he doesn’t want to fuel rumors that he is a Muslim, a US official tells the New York Times.

    http://www.newser.com/story/103325/obama-golden-temple-visit-nixed-to-scotch-muslim-rumors.html

    2. US Democratic front-runners Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama have traded accusations over a photo of Mr Obama circulating on the internet.
    The picture, sent to the Drudge Report website, shows Mr Obama wearing traditional Somali dress during a visit to Kenya in 2006.
    The website said it was circulated by Mrs Clinton’s staff but her team denied they had sanctioned its release.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7263783.stm

  • millard_fillmore

    Susan:

    Furthermore, those liberals who got their undies in a twist over this picture, need to know that there’s no such thing as a “Muslim garb”:

    http://www.obamablog08.com/2008/07/16/obama-new-yorker-cover/

  • http://www.richardsnotes.org Richard

    I wonder what Williams saw that made him nervous?

    Pictures of Muslims Wearing Things:

    http://muslimswearingthings.tumblr.com/

  • craig folgers

    I always thought that the left and NPR were tolerant and unbiased. The Williams NPR matter shows that it is the American left and NPR that are the most intolerant, the most bigoted, the most biased, the most prejudicial, the most radical, and the most corrupt, dishonest, ad perverted.

    Danial Schoor was one of the most biased and prejudicial reporters. All you had to do was to listen to him to kjnow that. He never had a critial or negative thing to say about the dems and libs. He always criticized the right.

    Pay attention to not only what is said, but also to what not is not said.

    CAIR and PBS are in bed with each other.

    Soros and NPR are in bed with each other.

    Time to defund NPR. Time to defuund PBS. Time for the multiple decade old “children” to grow up and leave the nest. If the amount of Federal funds is so small then, PBS and NPR should not miss the money. We can then stop the charade that public TV and public radio are unbiased. They can then broadcast without the support of the Federal government. Grow up and compete in the world of the media.

  • buddhaclown

    Why is it that the harder NPR tries to stick to standards of neutrality and objectivity, the more they are accused of left wing bias?

    What if the very act of being objective promotes a left wing agenda? What if being objective appears like left wing propaganda to a right wing person?

    Why is it that no one ever accuses NPR of being fake news, yet this charge is constantly leveled against “Faux News”?

    If all news is propaganda, no matter the agenda, then what is the difference between “real news” and “fake news” . . . it is just a matter of which one feels right to me, isn’t it? But if appearing to be objective feels right to me, does that make me left wing?

    If Juan Williams is appearing on both NPR and FOX, his actions aren’t saying “one is real, the other fake” . . . . his actions are saying “both are real” . . . or worse, “both are fake”.

    But the very essence of NPR is rooted in the belief that it is possible to have real, objective, news (and thus also fake propaganda news when things go terribly wrong), which means that Juan Williams was no longer representing the core belief of NPR.

    No wonder they fired him!

    Nevertheless, we are entering into the postmodern, post-internet era where perspectives are like stars in the night sky, where being objective is just another perspective.

  • http://www.richardsnotes.org Richard

    Again, well said buddhaclown.

    The conspiracy theorist in me thinks that maybe Williams and Fox staged this to give NPR a black eye (no pun intended) and jump start his solo career on Fox.

  • Dave

    “more maybe right or wrong is the point.”

    Yikes! Believe it or not, I do know what you are saying, and I do, as a scientist, appreciate notions of truth or right. But I also know that outside of the sciences ( where hypotheses can be tested with empirical data), truth and right disappear quickly. That didn’t stop me in my early twenties, from being sure I was “right” about alot more than science. I recall after the 90′s Republican takeover, I was livid about how NPR seemed to become overtly more conservative, or giving equal time to say creation nonsense and evolution discussion (which as a scientist still upsets me).

    But I also know, that as I’ve gotten older, I’ve gotten a bit more humble about right and wrong outside of science, and about being so self-assured of my righteous (atheistic) outlook. Still and atheist of course.

    Anyway, while I once might have believed otherwise, I know I now believe more in individual liberties and freedom to express ones view, hopefully on a continuum to further understanding and approaching truth on issues, than entrusting the “truth” to a centralized few, who are so enlightened that we can turn our liberties over to them, trusting they will always do the right thing.

    Its messy, its frustrating, but I think as long as we can try and be open minded and have an ethic of wanting to understand things, we do better by having many individuals thinking for themselves, and acting accordingly, creating an evolving social gestalt, than by turning over our analysis and decision making to a select few well-meaning people.

  • Dave

    “What if the very act of being objective promotes a left wing agenda? What if being objective appears like left wing propaganda to a right wing person?”

    Again, I can sympathize with that idea, and felt exactly like that. But when it comes to political-economic theory, I just don’t believe their is scientific evidence to solve the debates, so that any reporting of reality, can not support any “agenda”.

    I do know I was always infuriated by the word “liberal” that was such a pigeonhole. I always said, “how about ‘right’!” (as in correct) as you imply.

    But when we are arguing (as it seems these days) about fundamentally re-visiting the concepts of Constitutional government, role and size of government, Well-meaning, centralized planning vs. individual freedom and choices driving our direction, I don’t see how you can easily call one right.

    And, regardless of how lame, cheesy, obstinate, profit-driven, crafty or infuriating Fox news is, they are one of the only mainstream outlets that will give some of what is mentioned above, an airing. Crass and arrogant and mixed up with religious nuttery overtones that it is.

    When NPR starts exploring Austrian economics and Libertarian ideals and the nature of the Federal Reserve, and Ron Paul, educating people about what the ideas are so people can make up their own minds, then we won’t need Fox to do it.

    But I am not convinced that there is not a status quo “machine” or “elite” who are very comfortable with our corrupt status quo, and who consciously or not, do not want to reexamine the fundamentals of our governance/self-governance. And while it is soooo hard not to throw the baby out with the bathwater when you flip on Fox, that is what I think so many good-intentioned people do.

  • Dave

    “Nevertheless, we are entering into the postmodern, post-internet era where perspectives are like stars in the night sky, where being objective is just another perspective.”

    I just think that’s unnecessarily fatalistic. Do you really think you can pin down a political view, an economic model, to being objectively “right”?

    This is the stuff that makes our current polarization almost impossible to bridge, and makes chances of progress very slim, with the only viable outcome civil war or political stalemate, both of which will likely destroy our country given our challenges.

    If we can’t get past the bluster and provocative antagonism that Fox so obviously markets, in part I think almost for a laugh of how apoplectic it makes “liberals”, and actually talk about fundamental issues- re examine them, not just recycle the status quo dogma of the 2 parties. If any of you who don’t call yourself typical Democrat party liners, but some other stripe of progressive, can’t go out and talk and find common ground somewhere with Tea Partiers (real ones, not the worst we see in the news everyday), then we are screwed.

    I just think this economic/corruption crisis has really shaken things up, and many people are rethinking fundamentals. But many others are reverting back to party line dogma, instead of having the courage or initiative to actually re-examine, or examine for the first time even (nature of Fed Reserve, 2 party war always etc), what our actual system is.

  • Ann

    Dave, you have given us such food for thought, and so articulately! The various “middle grounds” (NOT exactly your phrasing) you suggest we try to find, instead of being comprised of mushy, wimpy compromises, are worth exploring.

    Do we live THRU television so much, with its tendency to be impressive by creating extreme situations that pose as normalcy, that we have have neglected the exploration of the rich world between polarities?

    I have noticed this on social issues: many people opened up to new ideas in the Sixties, but now, decades later, sometimes we can only see the old paradigms and their exact, measured opposites (which we’ve come to accept as plausible alternatives); but, that wide, deep world in the middle — we’re BLIND to it. We don’t “mine” it for ideas.

    I actually think The Powerful (networks, parties, PACs, etc.) do NOT think this way, but they’ve learned that we do, and they exploit that….the chicken & egg thing at work.

    There’s much to think about on this webpage, and your last few thoughts really gave my mind a shift, especially when you suggested a “continuum to further understanding and approaching truth on issues, than (instead) entrusting the “truth” to a centralized few, who are so enlightened that we can turn our liberties over to them, trusting they will always do the right thing.” Thanks!!!!!

  • Dave

    “I actually think The Powerful (networks, parties, PACs, etc.) do NOT think this way, but they’ve learned that we do, and they exploit that….the chicken & egg thing at work.”

    Indeed, Divide and Conquer.

    That’s a good point. Hopefully the rest of us can see it for what it is and not get too entrenched in the dogma camps they have set up for us, and instead we can take back a bit of power and make some solid reforms that a vast majority of Americans can agree on after tearing down the status quo through reasoned and researched discussion. Hard to keep the noise down though.

  • Angelica

    Shame on NPR for firing Juan Williams.
    And shame on the show’s commentators for pussyfooting around the issue.

    More important than being a statement about JW-NPR-Fox, it bodes badly for common sense and discussion of controversial themes that should, nay, must be addressed in open forums to explore and weigh the merits. And this should/must be done by thoughtful, knowledgeable people…such as JW.

    Why don’t we hear clips from the original show giving the fuller context of William’s argument for rationality over fear? (1) To play this one clip is irresponsible — classic SoundBite Incitement Syndrome. (2) Not to mention that the tempered comments in this clip were far from incendiary. Most people, even if hearing them makes us cringe a little, can understand them. (3) And let’s remember: to show empathy and understanding — such valuable, and lacking, qualities in American political discourse — is not to offer a ringing endorsement.

    Why can’t we (press included, perhaps especially) acknowledge fears (legitimate and not) and still champion reason. To ask people to ignore that a significant amount of anti-US violence has been perpetrated by Muslims (many of whom themselves have connected the violence with their faith) does not negate or deny that the majority of Muslims do not subscribe to this ideology and aren’t happy when havoc is wreaked in the name of their faith.

    Come on, folks! Let’s be a little more comprehensive in our thinking and thoughtful in our listening… We can do it!

  • Potter

    Dave @ 9:11 re: right and wrong ( versus right and left)

    But I also know, that as I’ve gotten older, I’ve gotten a bit more humble about right and wrong outside of science, and about being so self-assured of my righteous (atheistic) outlook……But I also know that outside of the sciences ( where hypotheses can be tested with empirical data), truth and right disappear quickly. That didn’t stop me in my early twenties, from being sure I was “right” about alot more than science. …..Anyway, while I once might have believed otherwise, I know I now believe more in individual liberties and freedom to express ones view, hopefully on a continuum to further understanding and approaching truth on issues,

    As I have gotten older it’s more clear to me ( morally) what is right and what is wrong. Fox News scares me. It’s a media giant on everywhere: in airports, hotel lobbies, bars etc. It’s the most watched. It is unquestionably biased in it’s news presentation not to mention commentary while calling itself “fair and balanced”.

    People are vulnerable to demagoguery and being misled. History and current events have led me to understand that. Juan Williams was a regular in that venue identifying himself with that organization and with NPR a the same time. This is not a matter of diverse opinions being good for us all. Sorry. Juan Williams has a right to express himself and on Fox- but he has no right to being a news analyst on NPR. Williams was making choices (this is not about just one quote) that led to his dismissal.

    “Science” ( a broad term) is not always right either though it’s the best way we have of getting to certain truths.

    Michael- thank you for your informative posts.

  • Zeno
  • Zeno

    I remember when Walter Cronkite gave his OPINION on the Vietnam war and ended the career for a president and began the process of ending that war.

    Bad journalistic ethics? He should have kept quietly reporting the false body counts…and let the war continue?

    Reality is not in black and white.

  • JonS

    Funny how it’s always “progressives” that : enforce a speech code ( political correctness) , attempt to shut down opposing points of view ( Fox News , the ” fairness doctrine”), shout down opposing points of view ( witness conservative speakers at university gatherings), use slurs and emotionally charged labels rather than engage in honest debate with opposing views ( calling tea party members “racists” , “nazis” , or “tea baggers” ), have a president that ran as a “uniter and not divider ” and “post partisan” but has governed by attacking such groups as banks , insurance companies , big pharma, oil, wall street , US Chamber of Commerce , Fox News, John Boehner , traditional US allies like Great Britain and Israel , and engages in class warfare rhetoric based on resentment and envy of the worst kind . Is there any wonder why we have nearly 10% unemployment?

    Where’s all the “Obama Lies ” hysteria ( and the New York Times editorial page) now that it’s been shown that Obama’s talk of shovel ready projects , lower health care costs ( remember “we’ll bend the cost curve”) , closing Guantanamo , rendition is illegal , making knowingly false charges against the Chamber of Commerce , etc. is all a bunch of lies and total distortion. Only Obama could resuscitate Bush ‘s approval ratings …

    Give me a break….any wonder why ( with the exception of the “true believers” ) the vast majority of people are so disgusted with Obama and Democrats .

    Finally , I’ve been listening to Tom Ashbrook since he first started on WBUR many years ago. I absolutely enjoy the program , contribute to WBUR and think Ashbrook is an incredibly gifted host . But anyone who thinks On Point doesn’t slant liberal obviously either doesn’t listen carefully or harbors such extremely left views that they can’t even recognize mainstream liberal comments. To those persons I would suggest you read/ listen to other points of view that you deem objectionable ( such as Fox News, Wall Street Journal , Commentary magazine , Rush Limbaugh , etc.) . It might even open your eyes.

  • http://www.richardsnotes.org Richard

    JonS: you’re logic is an example of what I’ve been saying for years in these and other comment threads: many people do not understand the difference between “news” and “editorial.”

    If you think NPR is a single, monolithic entry you’re wrong, just like Fox isn’t. Fox has a news division and various talk shows like O’Reilly. The problem with Fox is that they mix the two by having news anchors on their news shows drop opinions into their reporting of the news. I don’t see Jim Lehrer doing this on The NewsHour and I challenge you to show me an example of him or anyone else on that program doing it. All of their video is online and you can see all of their recent shows.

    onPoint is not NPR news. It’s not advertised as such. It’s Tom Ashbrook’s talk and interview show. It’s akin to Fresh Air, Terry Gross’s talk and interview show. Neither of these shows is produced by the mothership, NPR. All Things Considered and Morning Edition are NPR news magazine shows and aside from pundit interviews and analysts like Juan Williams, Daniel Shorr, David Brooks, etc., I think NPR news is one of the most neutral news sources around.

    What Schiller et al at NPR are attempting to do is keep news and editorial separate. I don’t defend the way they’ve handled this but I will defend NPR as a whole to the end of the world. NPR is a natural treasure with the best programming around. So is PBS and I appreciate shows like The NewsHour and Frontline and others. These shows attempt to set a very high standard and while not perfect, I think they succeed.

    Fox and MSNBC merge news and opinion because they’ve figured out that people don’t want to think about stuff, they want to be told what to think by people who they agree with. This is scary and is one reason I choose NPR and PBS over either of those sources.

    I don’t want to watch news shows where people like Juan Williams, even in making a larger point about not all terrorists being muslims, comes up with a provincial example of being nervous boarding planes when he sees people in “traditional muslim garb” whatever that means. It completely undermines his objectivity as an analyst and reporter. It’s unprofessional and frankly, if he really feels that way he’s never read his own books about black history in America.

    Long live NPR and PBS, the last information sources for people who are willing to think about things.

  • http://www.richardsnotes.org Richard

    “natural treasure” = national treasure.

    NPR and PBS are both national treasures.

  • Dave

    Accountability. I think the lack of accountablility of those who profited from destroying our economy and engineering the bubble-cycle transfer of wealth (as our Fed/Wall St./corrupt Congress/NOT-free-market-but-rigged-market) does by design, is the real kicker.

    For example, from today’s Frank Rich (he does get some zingers in, even though I still think he is entrenched status quo as far as deep reform):

    “The latest example is Angelo Mozilo, the former chief executive of Countrywide and the godfather of subprime mortgages. On the eve of his trial 10 days ago, he settled Securities and Exchange Commission charges for $67.5 million, $20 million of which will be footed by what remains of Countrywide in its present iteration at Bank of America. Even if he paid the whole sum himself, it would still be a small fraction of the $521 million he collected in compensation as he pursued his gambling spree from 2000 until 2008.”

    I think if Wall St heads and Mortgage heads and Fannie/Freddie heads and Fed Reserve heads were all THROWN IN JAIL for their market manipulation and collusion to defraud, 98% of Americans would be dancing in the streets. Noam Chomsky would be hugging Ron Paul, NPR would dance with Tea Partiers.

    That deep justice and recognition of source of our rot, is about all I see bringing us together.

  • Michael

    How F’d is this,

    It is the biggest leak of military secrets in history. Al Jazeera has details of nearly 400,000 classified US documents. They are the secret Iraq files, leaked to whistleblower website WikiLeaks.

    For the past ten weeks Al Jazeera has had complete access to those files. As part of our forthcoming coverage, we reveal how the US military gave a secret order not to investigate torture by Iraqi authorities discovered by American troops.

    Our full coverage will begin on Friday, October 22, at 2100 GMT.

    http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/10/20101022184243877818.html

    So much for the moral high ground.

  • Michael

    “Funny how it’s always “progressives” that : enforce a speech code ( political correctness) ”

    Like being unamerican for criticizing the War in Iraq, Calling torture enhanced integration when clearly it was torture. Lets not forget cutting defense spending is played as not supporting the troops, wanting troops home is played as not supporting the troops, Single Payer health care is fascist, communism, Reporting by the Southern Poverty law center and the state department on radicals (racist groups) recruiting Vets is played as attacking the troops. Lets not forget the taboo on criticizing israel in U.S. news, “like calling illegal settlements uh illegal, or the USE of the word teabagger,

    Spare us the B.S.

  • Michael

    “Danial Schoor was one of the most biased and prejudicial reporters.”

    Was Danial Schoor on MSNBC? was Danial Schoor an report or analyst? Williams was an reporter till his off the wall comments about Michelle Obama. Who was Schoor prejudiced too? Was Willams warn before about this?

    Now answer is the Oreily Show an News program? If not than why is Williams on giving his Personal views with the title representing NPR? He could have always stated before each show how his views to do reflect the views of NPR but he didn’t and fox used him to put the myth of somehow balanced and fair.

    I would bet if any NPR journalist or reporters started working and appearing on Keith O.(and said something like when i go to the south and see an white republican i get nervous they might be part of the kkk)the right would nearly crap themselves stating how NPR is ultra-liberal and should fire the person, yet when the same thing happens for Fox’s they see no problem with such

    I see the real problem is demonizing blacks, jews, the poor, latinos can get you fired, demonizing muslims until now wouldn’t so Fox with there well oil machine sees this as a problem and want to keep (in the case of demonizing Muslims) still open to do so.

    To keep there base they need sensationalism and fear, since demonizing blacks, latinos is weakening, and jews is off limits, the Russians are not an threat the easiest scapegoat are Muslims, but by firing Williams this has thrown an monkey wrench into there plans and may set a precedent for other news sources to do the same when such occurs so the astro outcry must be loud enough to try and scare NPR and other news sources not to.

  • Michael

    Don’t forget the Freedom loving U.S. are selling 60 Billion in weapons,planes, etc to one of the most undemocratic country in the world (worst than iran btw) to keep them in power from both insides and outside enemies(ones who no doubt would be far more democratic).

    The same is with Egypt and the U.S. support of the dictator(actual) there with cheap grain and wheat.

  • buddhaclown

    [quote] That’s a good point. Hopefully the rest of us can see it for what it is and not get too entrenched in the dogma camps they have set up for us, and instead we can take back a bit of power and make some solid reforms that a vast majority of Americans can agree on after tearing down the status quo through reasoned and researched discussion. Hard to keep the noise down though. –Dave

    [/quote]

    Your ideas are noble and well reasoned.

    But what if the dogma camps, as you put it, don’t come from anyone other than us? Would “taking back the power” suddenly result in all ordinary joes thinking the same way? Would taking back a bit of power result in every American citizens suddenly becoming a rational human being?

    What if the reason Fox news is the favored source among conservatives is because conservative viewers tend to actually prefer media to be explicitly biased? If Fox news is merely brainwashing, then why do so many people love it?

    What if your very idea of “reasoned and researched” conclusions is inherently a modern conception — where the research and rationality actually precede the conclusions, not the other way around — in some ways fundamentally foreign to the traditionalist mentality, one that is looking more for solid beliefs upon which he or she can rely? How can you expect someone who is longing for dogma and religion simply to give up this longing because rationality and science are offered to them as an alternative? Won’t they just see “rationality and science” as alternative dogmas (and not a particularly attractive ones at that)?

    I can fully appreciate your caution against the idea that a political view can be objectively determined as “right”. But when do we get past this notion that things are either objectively true, or they are entirely relative and on equal footing and that nothing matters? Obviously there can be no political view that is objectively true, but can’t some political views be relatively more or less true than others? In our fear to acknowledge this, aren’t we inadvertently validating demagogues and hate mongers?

    If Fox news and NPR are really just the same (only different in their underlying biases), then doesn’t that mean that Fox is just as real news as NPR? Isn’t this precisely what Juan Williams was suggesting by working both sides?

  • Christopher

    Honestly, I’m surprised how many people contributing to this thread miss a few essential points.

    As a news analyst, Williams needed to be relied upon to exercise sober judgment when it comes to precisely the kind of issues around which Fox News works so hard to generate FRENZIES and hysteria.

    It’s not a neat formula, but whatever it is Fox News does should be just about the metaphysical OPPOSITE of what NPR and other legitimate news agencies should be doing.

    There is NOTHING ethically wrong with feeling afraid of Muslims, or blacks, or gays, or women. We are not ethically responsible for our FEELINGS.

    We are ethically responsible for what we do and say, and the ethical strictures on what we do or say are not equal. A person whose professional responsibility demands that he help clarify a wilderness of contradictory and confusing news reports on issues related to terrorism has a greater ethical responsibility to be temperate and conservative when it comes to opining or emoting on those issues.

    The fact that this is generating such turmoil just shows how much we’ve lowered our standards. I hope NPR continues to RAISE expectations about how journalists conduct themselves in public. If that means reining in other NPR journalists, so be it. We DEPEND on the professionalism and good faith of journalists to KNOW and UNDERSTAND important stuff, folks.

    Should we consider a news analyst credible who calls Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity colleagues? No. No way. Firing Williams was the right thing to do.

  • cory

    On Point producer(s),

    Would you please consider doing an hour on the idea of “American Exceptionalism”?

    1. Philiosophical underpinning
    2. Effect on foreign policy
    3. Ethical and moral considerations
    4. Origin of the idea

    Thank you for your consideration!

  • jeffe

    “Danial Schoor was one of the most biased and prejudicial reporters.”

    I’m going to say that this kind of BS serves nothing.
    This is the kind of immature statement that one expects form a 14 year who was just told to go their room.

    Dan Schoor had political leanings, he was after all on Nixon’s hit list. However he was not biased in the way described. He hated intolerance, exposed hypocrisy in politicians who think they can get away from it.

    He also had a very distinguished career as a journalist and a analyst. If Williams did a quarter of what Dan Shoor did in his lifetime he too would have distinguished, alas that does not seem to be the case.

  • aj
  • potter

    ( also appreciating Christopher’s @ 12:13)

    Buddaclown’s @ 12:11 What if the reason Fox news is the favored source among conservatives is because conservative viewers tend to actually prefer media to be explicitly biased? If Fox news is merely brainwashing, then why do so many people love it?………

    If a person is actually brainwashed, especially feeling comfortable and righteous in that mode, if it suits, then they don’t have to know they are brainwashed. It can be plain to see by others bumping into the same arguments and misinformation that gets disseminated and repeated and goes unchallenged most egregiously on Fox– which is everywhere on calling itself news, purporting to give facts and balance.

    Why? People are busy, lazy thinkers, selfish, ignorant. Perhaps they have been brainwashed by upbringing or culture, not educated to think for themselves, or simply unwilling to do the work necessary to be more informed. Maybe they lack the tools to discriminate about what is reliable and what is not. I rely on venues such as NPR to be discriminating for me. I am heartened by this dismissal.

    The founding fathers knew about the need for balance. To be responsible citizens we need straight facts and various but intelligent opinions, not bias and entertainment. Juan Williams chose to be with Fox offering strong bias as facts and divisiveness as entertainment while holding his position as NPR analyst.

    Do you suppose that mr. Williams was actually aiming for his 2 million dollar contract and using NPR (and NPR’s reputation ) as a stepping stone? Do you suppose that Fox was gaining from this as well- win- win? What was NPR getting out of this situation? Nothing positive.

  • Christopher

    NPR is the best broadcast news agency in the country. I think they’re second to none. Comparing them to CBS — say — or ABC seems fair. Comparing them to Fox News is absurd. Fox is to news what the WWF is to sport.

    Conservatives:

    Across the country your leaders are attempting to whip up another frenzy (for the same, see Jeremiah Wright frenzy, see birther frenzy, see mosque frenzy), this time against NPR.

    I hope you will ask yourselves, “Why does Jim DeMint not want me to have commercial free, high quality news?”

    Because you will admit — I’m certain — that NPR is superior to Fox.

    So why don’t your leaders like it? What are they afraid of? Surely you can’t believe that DeMint and the bunch of them are just so incensed by the firing of Juan Williams that they are willing to defund NPR. Good people, think about it!

  • david

    Heard this little bit of news,not from the liberal media outlets, but from the so-called biased Fox.
    Barney Frank has spoken an untruth!!!
    Who cares!! He is a democrat and liberal, only the conservatives are bad guys.
    http://www.bostonherald.com/news/politics/view.bg?articleid=1290601

  • Christopher

    David –

    You claim the news you are passing on is only being covered by that noble and legendary news outfit, Fox, but your link is to a NEWSPAPER. Is the Boston Herald a part of Fox?

  • Michael

    “Heard this little bit of news,not from the liberal media outlets, but from the so-called biased Fox.
    Barney Frank has spoken an untruth!!!
    Who cares!! He is a democrat and liberal, only the conservatives are bad guys.

    So you point is Franks an liar? wow call start the press, Front page news an politicians lies must be an first right?

    What i did take from the article that transparency is needed with campaign donations D or R, funny how the National Republican Congressional Committee derides Frank for taking money from wall street yet see not problem receiving money from Rupert Murdoch cause everyone nows receiving money from an(sic) News source to an political group or politicians is not an conflict of interest.

    http://www.newsmeat.com/billionaire_political_donations/Rupert_Murdoch.php

    Maybe fox news could report

    The financial industry bailout was passed in October 2008. It was requested by a conservative Republican administration (George W. Bush and Dick Cheney). It was enthusiastically endorsed by the House Republican leadership (John Boehner, Eric Cantor, and Roy Blunt), the Senate Republican leadership (Mitch McConnell and Jon Kyl), both members of the Republican presidential ticket (John McCain and Sarah Palin), and assorted, high-profile conservative voices (Mitt Romney and Glenn Beck).

    Indeed, after the Republicans’ would-be Speaker got choked up pleading with his colleagues to support the bailout, it was endorsed by none other than Rep. Pete Sessions (R-Texas), who happens to be the chair of the National Republican Congressional Committee.

    Yes, that’s right, the NRCC is attacking a Democrat for voting the same way as the chairman of the NRCC.

    Imagine if the DSCC ran an attack ad against Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) for supporting the stimulus, because polls showed the stimulus to be unpopular, even though the DSCC leadership voted for the stimulus. It’d be laughable, right? This is the exact same thing

    http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_09/025574.php

  • david

    Christopher,
    I used the Boston Herald as a reference of the story being true. If I had just said Fox news, I knew I would get the answer I expected.
    Our nation is in serious trouble, BOTH Dems and Repubs are at fault for this mess. Everyone here is trying to pass the blame and it is getting us nowhere.
    No one here seems to care if NBC,CBS,ABC,MSNBS or CNN are biased to the hills in favor of the Dems.
    I have listened to NPR for many years and I have noticed the slide more in the direction of liberal progressive politics.
    Here is another site that tells a chilling truth, believe it are not, the facts are getting there.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx7fNQcJAjs&feature=player_embedded

  • david

    In the same boat.
    So Rupert Murdoch, a conservative, with his own money gives to whom he pleases, for that he gets attacked by the liberals.
    http://www.newsmeat.com/billionaire_political_donations/Rupert_Murdoch.php

    George Soros, a liberal, with his money gives to whom he pleases, nothing is said, the liberals are silent.
    http://www.newsmeat.com/billionaire_political_donations/George_Soros.php
    Which one of these rich folks has the best interest of America in mind????

  • buddhaclown

    Posted by david, on October 24th, 2010 at 10:25 PM — “No one here seems to care if NBC,CBS,ABC,MSNBS or CNN are biased to the hills in favor of the Dems.”

    Perhaps. Or perhaps anything short of Glen Beck seems “biased” toward the Dems, no?

    Perhaps rational reporting is just inherently “biased toward the Dems . . .” just by virtue of it being rational? How else do you explain that so many people consider virtually every mainstream media outlet biased toward the Dems, no matter how hard they try to be objective, and the one station that consciously tries to lean the other way just doesn’t seem rational, objective, or even real news?

  • William

    NPR is not the “best news organization in the USA”. At best, it is middle of the road with it’s liberalism screaming through it’s “reporting”. There is nothing wrong with being a liberal news organization like NPR, but they should not cry foul when they get called out for it. Additionally, they receive too much taxpayer funding and in these hard times they need to take a haircut just like every other group sucking off the taxpayer dime.

  • Christopher

    I’m sorry. I simply do not accept the endlessly repeated mantra that NPR is somehow in the tank for the liberal cause.

    Do I think that there’s a liberal sway to some of the programming? Yes, I do. But I don’t see how that distorts news reporting. And when it does, NPR listeners have a variety of ways of redressing what they might see as unfair reporting. NPR reads letters from listeners on air; NPR funds dozens of local and national talk shows; NPR has online places like this one where people can debate.

    The Fox Newsopia for which many of you yearn is a propaganda machine.

    I challenge any of you to cite news stories on NPR that are “biased.”

    I think that many of you interpret the coverage of certain kinds of subjects to be in itself liberally biased. Reporting — say — on poor air quality or polluted lakes, no matter how accurate the reporting, “reads” as liberal bias to many conservatives, presumably because conservatives would prefer to believe a free market’s invisible hand protects us from all bad things, including pollution.

  • michael

    “In the same boat.
    So Rupert Murdoch, a conservative, with his own money gives to whom he pleases, for that he gets attacked by the liberals.
    http://www.newsmeat.com/billionaire_political_donations/Rupert_Murdoch.php

    George Soros, a liberal, with his money gives to whom he pleases, nothing is said, the liberals are silent.
    http://www.newsmeat.com/billionaire_political_donations/George_Soros.php
    Which one of these rich folks has the best interest of America in mind????

    Turn that around so Soros, a liberal, with his money gives to whom he please, gets attacked by conservative, yet Murdoch does the same thing and silent.

    Not like Murdoch runs an muti-national news orgainzation that supposed to be “Fair and Balance” can the same be said about Soros?

  • michael

    “Maybe George wants to be King of world????

    Did David every answer if Murdoch or Perry wants to maybe be king of the world like he stated for Soros they both given far more money than Soro’s has?

  • Michael

    What still nothing from david if Perry or Murdoch wants to be King? I guess if they spent less like Soro’s maybe he might have answered.

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