There actually might be a kernel of truth in your comment Winston but unfortunately you clouded it with Christian dogma.

Americans (or maybe all Westerners, I don’t know) tend to decontextualize practices like yoga from their more spiritual roots so for many yoga is just one more form of stretching and/or bodywork. Nothing wrong with this although those who fold in a bit of spirituality seem to get a lot more out of it.

My wife has a yoga practice and teaches it in a (private) school, including the use of Sanskrit and Hindi terms, deep breathing and meditation. No doubt they’ve even done some informal chanting (kirtan) which might smell like religion to some. She no doubt played Krishna Das CDs during the class. She is attempting to give yoga a history and a context for her students who seem to appreciate that. Not all yoga practices include this kind of context but I think it’s a useful addition for those who choose to make yoga more than just exercise.

Winston’s point of church/state separation and how yoga fits into that should certainly be discussed this hour but personally, I would hate it if the only way yoga could be taught in a public school would be to strip it of its history and spiritual context.

What WINSTON said!

Now I like the idea of cleansing one’s soul while one cleanses one’s clothes! In this madcap world of multitasking and endless corruption from the interwebs, I think a little soul cleansing, as well as clothes cleansing, is certainly in order! If we just had drive-through laundries with religious pamphlets that also had free wifi, then we’d have something!

Yoga is definitely going mainstream. I re-introduced it as a sport option at my private school (in New Hampshire) back in 2003. That first year it was just me teaching one section, one term, on an experimental basis. Now we have two levels, with two or three classes total each term, and two men, seven women who are teaching or have taught it. Last winter, I had three young men from the fall football team show up for class. One (the star of our best team in years!) said his acupuncturist recommended yoga to help him avoid injury. Another said he’d done yoga over the summer and had found it improved his speed and reduced his injuries.

I began my practice at the urging of my migraine doctor. The health benefits and the reduction in stress definitely make a difference in the frequency and intensity of my headaches. I have found that I am in the best shape of my life, and I feel wonderful when I wake up as opposed to creaky. My upper body strength is definitely better than it has ever been which as a woman who hates weight training (personal preference) is a big deal.
I consider myself to be a Christian. I was raised non-Denominational in the South, and now attend services at an Episcopal Church. I find it funny that people would be threatened by the meditative aspects of yoga. Increasing my mind-body connection has enriched my spiritual life beyond measure. Try it before you knock it.

Well Winston you lost me with yoga is a “form of self worship disguised as a high level of spirituality” and as Richard stated, your Christian dogma. I’m a yoga teacher, of the past 1o years or so, and am just beginning to have a small understanding of the scope and magnitude of what yoga has to offer anyone brave enough to unroll a mat and begin to practice, not just the physical postures but all eight “limbs” of yoga. Yoga predates all organized world religions and is considered by some scholars/theologins to be the most sophisticated pyscho-spiritual tradition in the world. Yoga’s promise, when practiced in it’s totality, is nothing less than yoking or uniting us with our sense, our notion of the Divine. Or Yoking /uniting the finite with the Infinite, helping us to retrace the steps out of the valley of ignorance to the peak of enlightenment. I’m beginning to learn as profound and esoteric as this all sounds, it is really quite simple and it is Humanity’s birth right. I was raised as a Christian and came away with some good stuff. It is my humble opinion that all religions, in their purist forms aim to do what yoga does. But ultimatley I’ve found that it’s been through my yoga practice that I have had glimpses of, intimate moments of Knowing (at the risk of sounding anti-intellectual) there is something more to life than the gross physical level and the material world to which we all falsley identify. There is a vast interior consciousness, within us all, that is one with the Cosmos,(Christ consciousness if you will) one with all sentient beings. We are not seperate from each other and yet our opinions, our preferances our dualistic ideas of right and wrong, good and bad would have us belive in this seperatness indefintely. Yoga does help us physically to peel away the layers of accumulated tightness that is often a manifestation of emotional/mental rigidity. When we begin to move through these “layers” koshas (sanskrit) we can begin to have a truely authentic experience of who and what we are.

I’m curious, Richard, and maybe Anne Hungerford knows, maybe not, whether the emotional rigidity that yoga can help unknot includes the rigidities from child abuse. This morning’s Morning Edition included a piece with researcher J. Fallon as to child abuse as the third and precipitating ingredient in the creation of a sociopath/killer. And I read about the rigidities of inner repeating “plots” revealed in Rorschach tests drive people to seek danger (which is not “boring”), rather than allowing the Cosmos to stabilize them.
So has that been tried on anyone who was abused as a child? I don’t think Medicaid promotes it. (It’s criminal court transcripts that mostly come to my attention.)

I started practicing yoga at Laughing Dog Yoga at the behest of my physical therapist in hopes of rehabilitating a chronic shoulder injury. 4 years later my shoulder is fine but I continue going for the other aspects yoga provides, flexibility, balance and relaxing. I will never quit.

BTW, my 12 yo daughter has been practicing yoga at WMS for stress reduction. She would never do it before when I asked her if she wanted to try but she now loves it!

I noticed the role of music, specifically drumbeat, in the Shiva dance clip posted by OnPoint above, and I am wondering if yoga takes full advantage of the way rhythm and music can influence the mind, the spirit.

I just finished teaching a yoga class here in my home in Wellesley, http://www.personalday.net, and came down to hear that you’d be talking about yoga on On Point this morning.

I spent all day Saturday at The First Boston Yoga and Chant Fest, and then Sunday morning teaching the class at the Lululemon store in the Natick Mall. If that’s not mainstream then I don’t know what is!

Yoga has been a wonderful addition to my life. I started as a way to “age gracefully”, but as with so many others, as I continued along, I started to receive so many more benefits.

I highly encourage anyone to try it, and if you try a class that you don’t like, try another one! Because there is a yoga practice for everyone, and everyone can benefit. Even those people who say, “I could never do yoga because it’s not enough of a workout for me.” or “I’m not flexible enough.” There is a way to access the benefits of yoga, either through chanting (as the 500 people did at the Fest on Saturday) or through chair yoga for seniors or people with injuries, etc.

If you’re in the Wellelsey area, you can try it with me!

Interesting about Emerson and Thoreau being called “yogis”, as they were also Unitarians; I attend the Unitarian Universalist Church here in Wellesley, and find that the way that the UU “faith” draws from many different traditions, so can a person interested in yoga draw from all the different approaches that are offered today to find what works for your personality.

I wish everyone good luck on whatever path you’re on.

In terms of the spiritual dimension of yoga, I am listening for the social versus private aspects. There is something almost by definition countercultural to be “dancing” in the woods, in groups (or alone). Someone on air drew a picture like that. Now I do see people doing yoga in the park, and it’s sometimes solo, transfixing to see. But more often the idea of “class” and doing it together, paying an instructor, being a devoted, committed group makes it a little more than a team sport. But you can do it totally alone, which is different from spiritual practices where you are really expected (required) to partake at a certain site at a certain time. The caller who taught herself may be exception to the rule, or she may be more common than actually expected. Here, PBS, public television, teaches yoga at almost every fundraising stretch. Hour after hour.

Jane: Many exercises that cross mid-line can help with sensory integration. Juggling three balls can be helpful as well.

@Brett
Thank you for bringing some humor into this such serious discussion. Made me laugh.

Never take yourself too seriously!

Stephanie: “Category buster.” Great.

… now if only we can all Om! for world peace

To Jane Clayson,

Thanks for taking my call today on air. If you’re still looking for a teacher, I’d love to talk to you! You can see my studio on line at http://www.personalday.net.

And if you ever do want to start a yoga radio show, I’d love to help! :^)

It was a great program today. It’s such a rich topic…

Twelve years ago at The Yoga Studio in Beacon Hill, Barbara Benaugh was my first yoga teacher. Her teachings had a profound influence on my life right from the start. I have taken classes with many instructors since then but Barbara is still the best teacher I have ever had. Even today although I take yoga classes closer to home, I have incorporated many of Barbara’s teachings into my own practice.

Yoga does not have to be religious. Eating takes away from your bible study too Einstein. As does sleeping. Baseball. Football. OnPoint radio. Everything. Wow! Craziness.

I’m a practicing Episcopalian (sort of) but it never occured to me NOT to try yoga because of my religious beliefs. What did take a leap of faith was trying yoga, as recommended by my physician, to help with my inner ear condition that causes imbalance and vertigo (to name the most relevant symptoms for this discussion). I just found it hard to believe that hanging upside down was going to help stabilize my balance system. But then again, smacking my head on pavement from a drop vertigo attack didn’t do much for me either …. so why not give it a try. Almost a decade later, most of my symptoms have disappeared (I hope writing this doesn’t tempt the Satan that Brett referred to), and I do everything from downward dog to shoulder stands without much thought to anything but my breathing. OK, my tree and other balance positions don’t last long, but this is a life-long practice, so hopefully I’ll have a while to get there. And interestingly, I’ve found that the same thoughts and prayers that I offer in my Christian life, often appear during meditation or as I send thoughts of peace and health in my yoga practice. Namaste.

Wow!! Some of the comments above are very interesting. lol Yoga can be spiritual on some levels, but isn’t about ‘religion’. Most of my students enjoy the physical benefits of Yoga. However, for my personal practice I am enjoying the deeper rooted philosophies of Yoga as well. I understand how some of us may feel the need to define our existance by placing a label on our religious beliefs, however, even in the deepest realms of Yoga, it is about us… our mind~our body~our existance. It inspires us to find peace EVERYWHERE.

I’m not a spiritual person, and if yoga were what Winston claims, I wouldn’t be involved. As it is, I’ve been doing yoga for a decade and have never once felt pushed to become a Hindu or pantheist.

While there are spiritual aspects to yoga, you can be a Jew, Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, or atheist and still enjoy it and gain from it without giving up your beliefs. His view of yoga as ‘self-worship’ is as far off-base as it could possibly be. Self-respect, yes. Self-worship, no.

Winston obviously knows nothing of yoga and has been fed a highly-prejudiced view, likely from another equally-uninformed person.

I think those of you who are deriding Winston are missing an opportunity that his comment affords: what is the difference between spirituality and religion?

I’m in no way saying yoga is a religion, just that it’s a useful “spectrum” to explore and Winston’s comment, while caustic to folks who practice and know about yoga, is an opportunity.

Remember, if we get too like minded here yoga will turn into a religion, and that’s not where we want it.

Actually, Winston has an excellent point about how yoga in America (and elsewhere in the west) is being divested from its Hindu roots. He goes off-the-track in the latter part of his comment though, when he compares yoga to Satan and brings in his Christian monopoly-on-truth/god view.

As an aside, what is this sick pathology that the two major Abrahamic religions indulge in by converting others and claiming exclusivity? Have these people never heard of laissez-faire or are they really so insecure that they need strength-in-numbers?

I also don’t see any need to indulge in our modern society’s anti-religion biases and to polish our “secular” credentials by trying hard to prove that yoga is “spiritual” but “not religious.”

And to someone who said that he never felt any pressure to become a Hindu as a result of doing yoga, that’s because Hinduism is not a proselytizing religion and doesn’t claim to “save you” by “converting” you.

Could someone at On Point send me the name of the participant in the lead photo wearing the blue tank and whether she is a massage therapist.

Yikes! Only read the first couple of posts but had to stop at yoga is after all a religion.
Kind if scary. Yoga is NOT a religion…it is lifestyle that follows a certain philosophy.
One of my yoga nidra books from India actually says religion causes people to be schizophrenic and while this is a pretty strong statement I would say that might be true to some extent..yoga believes people are based in goodness and kindness and my experience of religion is that people are born sinners which instills fear and even self loathing.Trying to be brief here..in reference to spiritual vs religious, spiritual actually means having a relationship with your breath; to inspire is to bring in the breath, to expire, let is out. ps I even heard Jesus likely went to India and did do yoga and meditation there, very little is known about his life. Religion is belief system. All food for thought.

I am a practicing Christian (Presbyterian elder) and avid yoga practitioner for the last two years…going deeper than the asana practice with breath and meditation workshops, now regularly meditating. I start and end my meditation with prayers to my God. This path has definitely deepened my spirituality and broadened by understanding of Christianity…and definitely put me in the “unorthodox Christian” category. Don’t know if yoga is a “religion” (don’t much care, either), but it is definitely a spiritual path if you take it in its full meaning and depth.

As I continue to be amazed by the yogafication of everything (see yoga seat above) I think it is of value to be reminded of the genesis of yoga http://www.yogadawg.com/yoga%20genesis1.htm

several times, both stefanie + barbara referred to the “abuse of power” by yoga leaders of the 1980s-90s. If they did not wish to elaborate, it was unnecessary for them to refer to it as much as they did.

But since they did, can anyone please elaborate???

Yoga is a technology and can be practiced at a variety of depths. Many Christians practice yoga without significant, if any, spiritual conflict. However, I would agree with Winston that at its base it rejects the concept of original sin. If you’re really mired in the requirement of intrinsic self loathing, it may not be for you.

Yoga belongs to the Astika (orthodox schools) of philosophical thought from India. This as opposed to the Nastika (heterodox schools)such as Buddhism, Jainism, etc. All such -isms including Hinduism are western colonial understanding of these diverse philosophical schools that came out of India. In this sense, Hinduism is just a market for philosophical ideas.

Yoga, in short, relies heavily on the Astika – traditional spiritual – thoughts from India such as the Vedas, Samkya, Nyaya, Mimamsa, etc. Yoga also has close relationships to the system of Ayurveda (medicine) and Martial arts traditions from India.

Someone asked the question about Yoga and castes… many Indian school kids learn Yoga going to Catholic missionary schools and were trained by Catholic Yoga gurus. Caste (correctly Varna)as opposed to Jati (ethinicity or tribe) is a confusing concept for most Western folks. There is no hierarchy to Yoga or spirituality in India. Yogis come from all Varnas and Jathis, even from other religions. Myths and prejudices are harder to change than facts

To each their own, if physical benefit is all you seek, so be it. Want to learn meditation and how to reach higher levels of thinking, so be it. Want to learn philosophical traditions of India and immerse yourself in that ocean of knowledge, so be it.
Don’t be afraid that anyone practicing Yoga will try to change your spirituality – that is incongruous with those who really practice Yoga. Last I checked, Yogis don’t bite, but they do contort

So feel free to contort your body – you may see a different point of view!

Great interview. Thanks to the magic of Kindle, I’m already into the book!

Bob Weisenberg
http://www.elephantjournal.com/author/bob-weisenberg/

I have enjoyed reading all of the comments that have been posted here, it’s amazing how passionate people can get about yoga, isn’t it? Both for and against it. Very interesting.

Namaste,

Jenn

I’m an atheist who practices yoga and who ignores the spiritual and places emphasis on the body and her own mind. I take classes with instructors who are careful not to bring religion into the class. There is no reason not to mould the practice to what is best for your body and mind.

I have found that some people in America can’t seem to get to the complete relaxation state of Yoga no matter how often they practice. In fact, a few I know of that do it most every day, may even teach it, get so addicted that I wonder at times if its because it simply is only working for them a modicon of time, a temporary solution of state of “relaxation” before going back to their toxic thoughts (i.e, the media-led myth that America is fighting for its “security and freedom” with its violent, uncessary wars.
I’ve read (and seen with people) that the state of “Yoga Nidra” cannot fully be attained in one does not “let go” of inbred beliefs that many of us, including myeslf, were taught. It was not until I traveled the world, read hundreds of books outside of the American imperialistic attitude of an its History book, that I myself was able to fully “let go” and enbrace all humanity. After this, a couple stretches, breathing, poses and maybe five minutes of meditation incorporated 2x per week into my daily routine works, I am fully relaxed. People need to let go of anger….believing in war is anger.