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Smoke and steam rises from the volcano under the Eyjafjallajokull glacier in Iceland on Wednesday April 14, 2010. The eruption has interrupted European air travel. (AP Photo/Icelandic Coastguard)

It’s not every week the Tibetan plateau and Icelandic volcanoes make the top of the news. They have this week.

Chinese troops rushing into high altitude earthquake country with relief. Volcanic dust and ash from Iceland shutting down air travel across a huge swath of Europe.

At home, a big nuclear security summit. Republicans speak up against Wall Street reforms. Mars is named as the new US space target. And the world shares astonishment at the air crash deaths of Poland’s entire top tier of government.

This hour, On Point: our weekly news roundtable goes behind the headlines.

Guests:

David Ignatius, columnist and associate editor for The Washington Post.

Chrystia Freeland, global editor-at-large for Thomson-Reuters.

Jack Beatty, On Point news analyst and senior editor at The Atlantic.

Please follow our community rules when engaging in comment discussion on this site.
  • Gary

    With apologies to The Onion – Terrorist Volcanoes Halt all Air Traffic.

    Has Congress has issued an emergency session on yet another threat to air travel? These terrorist volcanoes must be stopped!

    Has TSA confirmed that volcanoes will be under greater surveillance in and around airports around the world? However, to avoid strict profiling, mountains, hills, and other mounds of earth should also be put on the terror list.

    When interviewed this morning a TSA worker (Mr. Wiley Seeker at LAX) stated that: “We can’t just be searchin’ the smoke heads…we have to avoid profiling. This morning a slag heap was searched, and of course we found nothing.”

    The White House stated that such derogatory terms such as “Smoke Heads”, and “Powder Puffs” will not be tolerated.

  • Brett

    I don’t think they should have interrupted air travel in Europe! When they do things like that, then the volcanos have won!

  • janet

    It’s was disappointing to see Obama shut out the press on that nuclear summit.

  • Fred

    I don’t recall the this MAJOR of a disruption of airline service after Mt. Saint Helens erupted. Did the particulates circle the earth at a lower/higher altitude? Was dispersion faster?

  • Dee

    Regarding the Icelandic volcano, it is always interesting to hear someone describe an event like this (or an earthquake, etc) as an event “of the century.” In fact, if you think about abut how many of these events “of the century” have occurred in the last 10 years, and then think about the multiplier of climate change, you should consider where you might be stuck when our just-in-time global transportation systems grind to a halt.

  • jeffe

    Mt. Saint Helens did cause problems for plains and in fact the part of the reason we see this grounding now.

    Also the tract of St. Helens did not go over major air traffic routes. One other thing I think we need to remember that it erupted in 1980 and the sky’s were not as busy then.

  • http://wbur.org Peter from Newton MA

    A comment on the executive order mandating that hospitals respect and honor the wishes of patients to allow any designated visitors and care advocates, not just blood relatives or “legal” spouses. ABOUT TIME. The stories of long-term partners and children being blocked at the door of dying patients’ hospital rooms are heartbreaking.
    The narrative in the Janice Langbehn story at Jackson Memorial Hospital in Miami in 2007 sounds like intentional cruelty by hospital staff, under the guise of “privacy”. The hospital says it is changing policy, but it has not issued a formal apology to the family – reprehensible, IMO.

  • jeffe

    Here is one statement that Tom left out:

    Their responses are like the general public’s in many ways. Most describe the amount they paid in taxes this year as “fair.” Most send their children to public schools. A plurality do not think Sarah Palin is qualified to be president, and, despite their push for smaller government, they think that Social Security and Medicare are worth the cost to taxpayers.

    New York Times

    You gotta love Sarah Palin, “that midnight run” Paul Revere was his name and he was riding a horse.
    Palin should read up on some American history.

    Great, I now have to listen to angry white males tell me how unhappy they are after 300 plus years of running the show.

  • Tom from Boston

    The Tea Party movement baffles me. If they were serious about “revolution” why would they turn to the GOP? The GOP is the establishment, funded by oil companies, banks, the insurance industry and defense contractors. Plus, where were these people during the abuses of the Bush administration? And their complaints about taxes are hollow. Federal taxes are lower now than at any point during the Bush years. The Obama stimulus plan LOWERED taxes for individuals and business by billions. And it was Bush who bailed out the banks and car companies.

  • BHA

    Given the description Tom just put out, I would be a ‘Tea Party’ type. Except I am not. I can’t follow along with a bunch of people who want smaller government, lower taxes but still wants all the services THEY use. There is no free lunch.

  • K Perkins

    The discussion here about the Tea Party complaints is shallow. The comment by one guest about the “seriousness” of their concerns over debt should not go unchallenged. There’s plenty of proof that Tea Party complaints have nothing to do with actual principle but are solely politics. They talk about “deficits” but said nothing when Bush Jr was jacking up deficits during good economic times after inheriting surpluses, and deficit spending now is needed to keep the economy going. They complain about “increasing taxes”, when federal taxes have decreased under Obama. They rant about “bailouts” when it was Bush Jr who threw the $750 billion TARP program at the Wall St banks and initiated the bailout of the car companies. They talk about “loss of freedom” when Obama discontinued illegal wiretapping, renditions, and torture policies begun by Bush. Obama just signed a proclamation allowing same sex couples rights when one is hospitalized. Health care reform will extend health care access to 30 million Americans. So, based on evidence, “freedom” has clearly increased under Obama vs Bush. Since there’s no basis for the Tea Partiers’ complaints, they have to be based on politics (or race; take your pick), and they are nothing more than yet another arm of the Republican propaganda machine, being directed by Armey and right-wing talk radio and TV.

  • Steve V

    The Tea Party does have a right to speak and they have issues that are valid; however, as long as Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin and Rush are seen as their spokespersons the majority of the public will not take them seriously.

  • Rex

    It seems like there is so much arguing and complaining about this administration and senate/congress that nothing is actually getting done. If the Republicans do take back some of these seats, will they shut up and do something or keep whining. They ran the show the past few years and pulled a few tricks here and there, and the Democrats seemed to play along and get the job done.

    Will Sarah Palin be out of a job if the Republicans succeed in taking back some seats?

  • Janet

    That 47 percent of people not paying any income taxes is alarming. This number needs to get down to less than 5 percent which matches the poverty index in America.

  • chris in Boston

    Re: the last Tea Party caller-

    No one would say that the Tea Partier who called in (white, male, middle class, 50s) has no right to be heard. But when you demand to be heard, if you want to be taken seriously, you have to make sense.

    From a former police officer attending the Tea Party rally this week in Boston:
    One of the reasons I’m here is because the governor signed a bill that says civilian flaggers can be used instead of police officers.

    Pardon me, but doesn’t that SAVE the government money, thereby LOWERING taxes??

    The Tea Partiers are not making sense, THAT’s why no one wants to listen to them.

  • jeffe

    Here we go again, On Point is spending way to much time on the Tea Party, as is most of the media. They are a minority of people. 18% is not a majority! Far from it.

    It’s not only “their” country. I’m sick of hearing this.

    By the way on BUR’s web site there is a video of interviews of people who align themselves with the Tea Party from the Boston event. I am sorry but most of them did not seem to me to be that well informed or educated to the level the New York Times poll alluded too. To be polite here they seemed to be not firing on all cylinders.

  • David

    Tom,

    I hear callers complaining about “incendiary language” and name-calling. I have to say, though–it’s exasperating when the bully cries foul and plays the victim. By which I mean, there is something wrong when extremists paint the President as Hitler, but when they are excoriated for their despicable behavior, they claim we are the “monsters” who are hurling insults. Sorry–I’m not buying it. It’s like the anti-gay forces, who will not tolerate homosexuality in their world, accusing those of us who defend the rights of gays of being intolerant. Intolerance of intolerance is a good thing!

  • Daniel

    What about a War tax. We’ve gone with the recent wars coming out of our general funds, and haven’t asked people to pay to support it.

  • Harry

    Increasing NASAs budget seems to me continuation of a mis-allocation of government research money. The most important issue facing our country is energy – yet the budget for energy research continues to be dwarfed by NASA. NY Times reporter Andrew Revkin in a talk he gave in Madison, WI showed a graph of the allocation of federal research dollars showing this. We need to invest in the R&D for green energy.

  • Steve T

    Our whole Nation was summed up for me in a piece of song I heard on the radio. “God is great, beer is good and PEOPLE ARE CRAZY”

    All the name calling finger pointing won’t get us anywhere.

    If this Nation is to survive, remember “United we stand, Divided we fall”
    WE NEED TO COME TOGETHER!

  • NJ

    For the sake of discussion, let’s assume—and it’s a dubious assumption—that the nutcase-wing of the Tea Baggers don’t represent the majority of the Tea Partiers. These are the idiots who claim Obama was born Kenya, or that his polices are “communistic,” etc.

    What, exactly, are these “responsible” Tea Partiers advocating? Lower taxes? “Smaller government? What does this mean? No one wants to pay taxes, but where do these people suppose the money would come from for the services we all use? How would these services be funded? Billions are wasted on “defense,” pork projects, and the rest, but i’ve yet to hear a peep from these folks about any specifics on spending priorities.

    How do they propose to make government “smaller”? What should be cut? Let’s hear some specifics. The ongoing implication is that, somehow, most government function equates to “socialism,” but how would these people propose to deal with road construction and maintenance, food safety, municipal water supply, social services, monetary regulation, libraries?

    I hear some of the TPers whining that they’re not being taken seriously, but until they come up with some serious ideas, they have no leg to stand on. “Concern,” anger, and nonsensical, unfounded claims don’t comprise a viable, political platform.

  • Alex

    Is the Tea Party going to put their candidates on the ballots in the next election? That could be a good thing because it would take the votes away from the GOP. Perhaps then the GOP and the Tea Party will form some kind of an alliance that will diminish the power of neo-cons and the religious right. Both of the latter groups are pro-big central government and big spending. The neo-cons are because they need to be able to finance foreign adventures and keep our own citizens in check, and the religious right is because they want to control people’s behavior, which is also expensive.

    So if you shed the neo-cons and the religious right, take the rest of the GOP and the independents and the more reasonable Tea Party members, if any, you may actually get something votable.

  • James Beech

    Somewhere in Kenya a village has lost its idiot. We know where he is.

  • Lance

    What frustrates me most about the Tea Party discussions is that poll after poll shows how inconsistent and incoherent they are, and yet the commentators and pundits, On Point included, continue to talk about them as if they really should be taken seriously. This is a group that takes their name from a tax revolt and come out to protest taxes, among other things, during a time at which taxes are as low as they’ve been in 50 years. A recent poll showed that 98% of people who self-identify as tea party supporters thought that their taxes either went up or stayed the same under Obama. They’re name after a tax revolt and they don’t know what the current tax situation is! They claim to be concerned about deficits but were absolutely silent during the unfunded expansions during Bush years, and they fight against health care reform that will lower the deficit while simultaneously complaining about debt. I saw a picture from a rally yesterday of a man carrying two signs, one calling Obama a communist and the other calling him a Nazi. Do they even know what those words mean? (Don’t answer, that’s rhetorical.) The caller complained about the disdain the hear from the left, but how can you not disdain a group that’s loud, angry, aggressive and completely, totally incoherent? How can you take anything they say seriously? I have disdain for the tea partiers in much the same way that I have disdain for flat-earthers and creationists, and for exactly the same reasons. I’ll stop feeling utter disdain for them when they calm down, shun the fringers, and make a consistent, meaningful argument.

  • jeffe

    I found it interesting that in the video interviews on BUR one of the Tea Party supporters calling for smaller government was unemployed. Was he collecting unemployment benefits? This was not made clear. Another was on disability, another government funded benefit. While one chap was a retired postal worker. Hmmm, I did not see him saying he would stop accepting his government pension.
    He did complain about his 401K losing value which he blamed on the government. As far as I know 401K’s losing value is more about Wall street.

    I know this is not a complete picture of the Tea Party but nonetheless these are people who are identifying with them.

  • John

    I heard the original comment the woman made this week about the “toothless masses” in reference to the Tea Party demonstrators. Only in America could that be interpreted as a nasty class comment regarding poor people who have no access to good dental treatment.
    I did not hear a particular nastiness in her tone and interpreted what she said as “toothless” in the sense of powerless or ineffective.
    That would probably be a fairly accurate assessment of most Americans compared to you average Wall Street banker or K Street lobbyist.
    Matt Taibbi’s recent essay “The Peasant Mentality lives on in America” describing the Teabaggers might be a bit harsh,even nasty, but certainly quite accurate.
    http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/2009/04/14/americas-peasant-mentality/
    Toothless Peasants, how’s that for a description of the Teabaggers?
    And I fit the demographic to be one, but am not.
    Cheers, John Massie

  • Todd

    “The Tea Party movement baffles me. If they were serious about “revolution” why would they turn to the GOP?”
    Posted by Tom from Boston

    @ Tom from Boston:
    I would agree with you, except you’ve got it backwards. The Tea Party has not turned to the GOP; the GOP has turned to the Tea Party, and hijacked it with their big money and big mouths. What started out as a legitimate grass-roots cause has now become GOP astro-turf. The GOP HAD to co-opt the Tea Party; lest it gain too much traction, and threaten the two party political “duopoly” by offering voters a viable political alternative.

    The two party system is the root of the problem, because it only provides the illusion of a choice. In reality, the Dems and Reps are the SAME party, controlled by the same special interest money, following the same agenda. Just two different oars on the same canoe.

  • Arturo

    As one of the listeners who posted on whether the phrase ‘toothless masses’ is depicts the behavior of many of the participants in the Tea Party movement, I must say this. If the the participants in this movement want to get respect from others, it would be good if you begin toning down your offensive rhetoric. So far, it has been neither difficult, nor unfair, to characterize this movement as extremist and misinformed. The rhetoric displayed in public by a significant number of its participants is nothing but a crude manifestration of arrogance and offensive behavior.

    Herein the link for photos showing the most outrageous public statements made by a significant number of the participants in yesterday’s protest.

    http://tinyurl.com/y54ag92

    Clean up your act and we may begin having a civic debate.

  • David

    Sorry–I don’t mean to be a pest, honestly. But why do you allow James Beech’s “uncivil” insult to Pres. Obama to stand, but not my very mildly insulting response? Why are bigots, bullies, and ignorants (and I’m not talking about anyone specifically) allowed to air their venom, but those who step up to call it what it is get shut down?

  • Arturo

    “Somewhere in Kenya a village has lost its idiot. We know where he is.”

    There we go again!

  • ulTRAX

    Janet wrote: “It’s was disappointing to see Obama shut out the press on that nuclear summit.”

    After reading enough of your knee-jerk criticisms of Obama, I think it’s clear that no matter what he does, you’re going to find some lame reason to bash him. If he let the press in you’d probably be saying he was jeopardizing national security by publishing our strategy to the terrorists.

  • ulTRAX

    James Beech wrote: Somewhere in Kenya a village has lost its idiot. We know where he is.

    George Bush is from Kenya????? ;-)

  • http://www.filipinoboston.blogspot.com akilez

    Mount Pinatubo was one of the most poweful volcanic eruption in the 20th Century it was so powerfull that Subic Bay and Clark Air Field was closed Permanently

    The biggest US military Base (in the world out side United States were doom).

  • Joan

    Yes, the Democrats need to stand up to the sleazebags in the Republican Party
    and they should start with the senate majority leader Mitch Mc Connell and mem-
    bers of his party including Robert Fiske, John Mc Cain, Joe Lieberman and their buddies in the House Dick Army and Tom Delay and others who helped Bush and Cheney sacked the US Treasury of the sum 3/4 trillion surplus left behind by the Clinton Camp and robbed America of the projected 10 trillion dollar surplus of
    the decade ( by the Congressional Budget Office in 2000) with their criminal war on Iraq (to secure that country’s rich oil fields) and now their criminal expansion into Afghanistan to secure that country’s natural resources also.

    How many backroom deals did the sleazebag Mitch O’ Connell make as he lined
    up his fellow Republicans to sign on the bottom line for the Bush /Cheney Camp and issued carte blanc checks on America’s credit card.

    I can’t recall hearing a peep from any of them about how this spending was harming America’s future or indeed how unjust it was to pass on such deficit spending to generations of Americans yet unborn?

    Where was Senator Judd Gregg’s of New Hampshire charting this financial dis-aster or indeed Mitt Romney detailing it in his book? How hypocritical Greggs’ financial charts look now and Romney’s book “No Apology” .

    Add the absurdity of The Tea Party and Sarah Palin pinning this disaster on Obama’s watch today…Democrats speak up and put on your boxing gloves!

    ( Bring out the photo ops and columns detailing their national theft also. ..
    They are all part of the crime scene now.) Joan

  • http://www.filipinoboston.blogspot.com akilez

    “Somewhere in Kenya a village has lost its idiot. We know where he is”

    He is now the first Black President of United States of America – Amen to that!!! Wiser than the idiot from Texas voted by the millions of idiots that caused the Great Recession and created the Toothless Masses.

  • Joan

    I couldn’t agree more with the Harvard professor comment on our pick up
    truck senator. He is an insult to the state and I imagine his own intelligence.

    Is it any wonder many of his constituents are reporting he is unreachable
    in their letters to the editor and around coffee shops and recycling centres?

    Yet he claimed to be a voice for the people…what a laugh! One has to take
    this with a grain of salt as 80, 000 voters alone in Boston sat out this special election who cast their ballots for Barack Obama in 2008 and similar stories
    can be found in surrounding Massachusetts towns…..

    If democrats are wise they will continue to play to their base and progressive agenda which was endorsed by independents and conseratives alike…Joan

    (Imagine, William Buckley, jr son voted for Obama? There is nothing that sym-bolizes how the GOP has gone off track in mybook with its members endorsing endless war and their criminal advocacy and allocation of tax payers monies to the Pentagon and the CIA depriving states of their essential and civil services, and few if any controls of the market place, plus their endless tax cuts to the
    rich and crumbs to the poor and “No” to healthcare, a stimulus, unemployment benfits, help for struggling home owners and young college students and last
    but not least “no” to global warming and reduced emission standards & indust-rial controls….The GOP is not a 21st century party and I doubt its cranky old members in the Senate and House are up for today’s challenges anyway and
    should be retired…)

  • Mary Elizabeth

    It is stomach turning to hear the white male teaparty sympathizers call in to declare themselves the “victims” of “unfair” criticism. Typical Repub Karl Rove tactic used by Fox, right wing talk radio, Palin et al, What the right wing with all the hate mongering has put this country through since Obama was elected is unprecedented and it is demoralizing . Perhaps those educated whites didn’t walk around with the ugly signs, perhaps they themselves don’t go on Boston right wing radio and say “Comrade” but they do nothing to stop it and let others do their dirty work. They kneel at Sarah Palin’s feet as she mocks the POTUS and cheer her on.
    This entitled holier than thou bunch need to grow up.

  • Mary Elizabeth

    To Gary —I hope you are joking. Planes have been halted because of the sand like particles in the volcanic ash that can destroy engines in mid-air. Plus, the prevailing winds have carried the ash directly to Europe.
    There’s lots of info about this in the internet for inquiring minds.

  • http://www.filipinoboston.blogspot.com akilez

    Volcanic eruption while traveling on an airplane is very dangerous it can even cause Asthma attack,nose infection and eye irritant.

  • Gary

    @ Mary Elizabeth – Duh! Your pedantic correction is unnecessary for those who have a sense of humor…or do you REALLY think TSA is searching volcanoes at airports?

    Did you hear that the president has hired Xe to assault the volcano with wet towels wrapped over the vent in order to make it confess it’s alignment with Bin Laden?

    HA!

  • Tom from Boston

    @Todd: I disagree on your point that the Dems and Repubs are the same. The Obama presidency has been very different from the Bush presidency (and what McCain would’ve offered). From healthcare, to the stimulus, to high-speed rail to Supreme Court nominees; a vote for Obama truly was a vote for change.

  • Brett

    Thanks, Gary! I enjoyed your satire; in fact, I carried on right after…Maybe we should send drones in to attack the volcanos, that’ll show ‘em! Ya know, there was not a single world emergency as the result of a volcanic eruption under Bush! I think this shows Obama is a weak, volcano-loving leader who will capitulate to those volcanos every time! Just how is he gonna keep volcanos out of the hands of terrorists, anyway?

  • Irvin @ OSU

    Regarding the conversations about the “tea party”.
    I have a question about the anger by the right over any mention of wealth re-distribution.

    About 30 years ago all we heard untill we could not stand to listen by republicans was about their so called “Benefits of wealth accumulation at the top for the wealthy elites and trickle down economics”.
    Which was later followed by more tax cut’s for the rich. Which was followed by the largest economic failure in decades.

    Because that’s where this current tea party really begins, back in that era of political & economic hi-jacking, I want to know the who, what, when, where, why and how of that UNFINISHED BUSINESS.
    So my question is:
    Now that the money is all at the top and their economic plumbing has all been reversed by “joe the fake plumber”, Why do we need a “tea party”???

    Then there is the hi-jacking of the name which offends me.
    Last and more importantly, the tea party current agenda and methods of those employed around that agenda remind me more of those who burned the Reichstag, while claiming to save us from those who might burn the Reichstag.

  • Gary

    @ Brett LOL! That was good.

  • ER

    Re: Tea baggers

    Take it from someone who went to the University of Texas @ Austin… home of one of the largest Frat and Sorority populations in the country…

    just because someone is “educated” or “degreed,” doesn’t mean they’re intelligent in the least.

    Most of those Frats and Sores were among the most dense morons I’ve ever encountered in my 45 years… and they’re the very idiots who now comprise this “educated” tea-bagger party.

    The idiotic rhetoric and utter gulliblity of these boneheads, who swallow whole any lie they here on FOX or from Limbaugh, speaks for itself… these people are indeed “toothless yokels”… and if not toothless because they have money, they’re yokels nonetheless.

  • Gary

    I heard that Obama was once a card carrying member of the USGS, and experimented with lapidary, but he says he never polished. The nation must be on alert to all members of the volcano lovers fifth column. When the Tea Party finds out that Obama is soft on volcanoes, there’s going to be trouble.

  • ulTRAX

    NJ wrote: Billions are wasted on “defense,” pork projects, and the rest, but i’ve yet to hear a peep from these folks about any specifics on spending priorities.

    I’ve debated the likes of these Tea Baggers for years and the are the byproducts of all that Orwellian Right crap that was used to sell irresponsible tax cuts going back to Reagan. I don’t think they really have a clue what the difference is between a million, billion and trillion. What the hell… zeros don’t count for anything so who cares how many of them there are!

  • peter nelson

    just because someone is “educated” or “degreed,” doesn’t mean they’re intelligent in the least.

    What makes you think they’re not intelligent? They have managed to sell their argument that they are the “little people” who are being ignored by the “big liberal media” so effectively to the “big liberal media” that we are spending most of our time here on a “big liberal media” NPR show talking about them!!!

    So they may be “toothless yokels” and we may be “intelligent educated” people here in the Athens of America, (Boston area listeners, where WBUR is based, at least) but they’re calling the music and we’re dancing to it!

  • Not a Chance

    “big liberal media” is a construct of the right… Big Media has always been conservative elitist.

    As to why the media is obsessed with these people, it says more about how the media best recruits viewership than it does about the “intelligence” of the Tea Partiers themselves.

  • Revolver

    Peter,

    “big liberal media” is a construct of the right… Big Media has long been conservative elitist.

    As to why the media is obsessed with these people, it says more about how the media best recruits viewership than it does about the “intelligence” of the Tea Partiers themselves.

  • jeff

    The only people who attack tax cuts are those who don’t pay taxes.

    This country needs cuts to taxes and spending. Americans who make money are hurting and should be able to keep more of it. On the spending side, start with entitlements and continue down the list. Hold them flat or cut them. I bet we wouldn’t even notice the difference.

  • Nancy

    Big conservative elitist media is a contruct of the left.

  • jeff

    What happended to pay-go?

  • montarro

    Barack Obama is the worst and most inept president I have seen in my life. Obama should be impeached for gross incompetence and for failing to carry out his duties as Commander in Chief.

  • JP

    Always uch cogent points, Joe!

    Always laden with specifics and so convincing because of terrific arguments you make.

    “Barack Obama is the worst and most inept president I have seen in my life. Obama should be impeached for gross incompetence and for failing to carry out his duties as Commander in Chief.”

    How can anyone possibly be more convincing than the master of argument, JOE!

  • Joe

    Jane, I’ll take credit for it though it wasn’t mine. Keep the great comebacks coming.

  • Natalie

    47% of Americans don’t pay income taxes. We have cut taxes too much! Sure curtail spending, but make everyone pay. That’s fair.

  • Impeach Obama

    Hey JP, (aka “wait one minute”), wasn’t it nice to see millions of Americans come out yesterday to protest the failed policies of your socialist president?

  • Bush’s fault

    Nothing like the Tea Party to bring the vitriol out of the underemployed; like monkeys in a zoo…nevertheless, I see the Tea Party as a gateway organization to bring voters otherwise marginalized by the intellectual snobbery of the elitist left into the political conversation. Some Tea Party people may sound unsophisticated now, but they’ll learn.

  • Charles Mentor

    California jobless rate hits modern record at 12.6%…

    HOPE, CHANGE, YES WE CAN, REFORM, LIBERALISM, OBAMA

  • Martin Field

    Jack’s typical nonsense: “let them fail will trigger too big to fail” How’d that work out for Lehman? The WH is in favor of creating a $50B bailout fund that will institutionalize too big to fail.

    Freeland knows absolutely nothing about credit derivatives. The crisis was caused by leverage, so limit leverage. Credit derivatives can be used to reduce leverage. I’d rather hear her go on about the power of mother nature. Yawn.

  • Roger Crowley

    HARRY IN POLL MESS; DEM LEADER TRAILS BY DOUBLE DIGITS…

    Na na na na
    Na na na na
    Hey hey
    Goodbye

  • Natalie

    Tea partists are all racist and anarchists. Beatty you are beyond ridiculous.

    Caller Steve, what a great job!

  • Marty Fellstein

    NBC Reporter To Black Man At Tea Party: ‘Have You Ever Felt Uncomfortable?’…

    WHO IS THE RACIST? WHO IS BIASED? WHO IS PREJUDICED? WHO IS A BIGOT?

    SAY IT WITH ME. LOUD AND PROUD.

    LIBERALS!

    IDENTITY POLITICS. THE POLITICS OF PERSONAL DESTRUCTION. DIVIDE. DIVIDE. DIVIDE. DON’T REPORT THE FACTS. MAKE IT UP. REPORT TO THE LEFT WING AGENDA AND TO THE LEFT WING TEMPLATE.

  • J

    After a word has served to convey your personal rancor, do you take a moment to consider its definition? It is possible to disagree with any politician. ..on program or on principle. But what does it say of the speaker’s keen sense or his regard for the intelligence of this country and its voters when he calls the commander in chief of the United States, a man who maneuvers through Washington so deftly, Kenya’s village idiot. Objective insight into obama’s character no doubt

  • Marc

    I haven’t been to a Tea Party, but am sympathetic with what I think are one of their core principles – that government at all levels is spending too much of our money and will soon be taking much more of it. I give them credit for not wanting to give more money to people who’ve gotten us so in debt that by 2020, our debt will match our GDP? This same group of leaders got us into two wars, hacked together a terrible and expensive health care plan and is largely beholden to campaign contributors. I don’t like Palin and some of the other leaders, but then every movement picks up people you don’t like. However, I do think the characterization of them as ignorant, racist, hate mongering Palin worshipers is both unfair and inaccurate. Though, I suppose marginalizing those you disagree with is one way to win an argument – works for Palin.

  • David

    I wish obama had not barred the press from the nuclear summit. It’s not good to have secret meetings without the press there to keep everyone honest.

  • justanother

    ****just because someone is “educated” or “degreed,” doesn’t mean they’re intelligent in the least.****

    Exactly, take G.W. Bush for instance.

    Bush on Billboard: “Miss me yet?”

    Bill Maher: “NOOOO!!!! Only the Iraqi who throw the shoes at you miss you”

    LOL!!!

  • Righty Dhujbheg

    I’m in agreement with many of the recent posts.

    1. Obama is a communist.
    2. He was born in Indonesia, and is not an American.
    3. His middle name is Hussein, and he’s a muslim.
    4. Liberals hate America.
    5. All fed. entitlements are unconstitutional.
    6. Our founding fathers are infallible.

  • justanother

    Righty Dhujbheg,

    Congratulations! Welcome to the cult of “Tea Party”!

  • Todd

    “@Todd: I disagree on your point that the Dems and Repubs are the same. The Obama presidency has been very different from the Bush presidency (and what McCain would’ve offered). From healthcare, to the stimulus, to high-speed rail to Supreme Court nominees; a vote for Obama truly was a vote for change.”
    Posted by Tom from Boston

    @ Tom from Boston:
    The two political parties are a difference without a distinction. Obama has NOT effected any substantial change from Bush’s policies since he assumed office. Just a few examples of Obama’s “change”:

    There are still innocent people being slaughtered in the wars raging in Iraq and Afghanistan, with no end in sight. China still maintains “most favored nation” trading status with the U.S.—in spite of its horrendous record of human rights abuses (feel free to apply the possessive “its” to either country now). The Patriot Act, Military Commissions Act, John Warner National Defense Authorization Act, Extreme Rendition, water-boarding/torture, warrantless wiretapping/searches, etc. are all still in effect—with the powers of some of these being expanded under Obama. Bernanke and the UNAUDITED/NEVER BEEN AUDITED Federal Reserve is still at the helm of ruining our economy—and it is about to be endowed with even MORE authority to continue to do so. The national debt continues to mushroom—fast approaching 13 TRILLION now. Wages continue to decrease, and so has the purchasing power of those wages. And unemployment? I’m sure you are aware of those numbers.

    A vote for Obama may have been a vote for change; but, it was a vote for change that will never be realized. There never really was any intention of changing the same corrupt agenda that has been followed in D.C. now for decades. Unless you voted for a change from bad to worse, then there hasn’t been any change—only a continuation of the same old crap. Obama has merely taken the baton that Duhbya passed to him and continued—with deliberation!—to run with it in the same direction.

  • justanother

    To all Tea Party supporters:

    WHERE WERE YOU WHEN BUSH WAS IN THE OFFICE? NOT MUCH HAS CHANGED! EXCEPT THE SKIN COLOR OF OUR PRESIDENT!
    ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    So far non of them can answer this question, NONE! Admit it, it is about the COLOR of people! I will give you more credit if you just admit it, instead of your constant self-contradicted sign of slogans and beating around the bush! You know, it really doesn’t take much IQ to see through your motive.

  • http://www.pnart.com peter nelson

    “Revolver” says
    “big liberal media” is a construct of the right… Big Media has long been conservative elitist.

    As to why the media is obsessed with these people, it says more about how the media best recruits viewership than it does about the “intelligence” of the Tea Partiers themselves.

    You had to post this under two different monikers?

    Look, I can understand that a few people here have sensitive jobs or wives or students or bosses or mistresses that would be shocked (,shocked!) that they actually have OPINIONS about something, and I respect that.

    But why does almost EVERYONE here feel a need to hide behind a made-up moniker, which they subsequently get confused about and have to repost under a different one? What ever happened to having the courage of one’s convictions?

    Anyway, NPR is so ANXIOUS to show that they’re “fair and balanced”, in response to charges by the Tea Party claiming that their issues are being ignored or belittled by the “liberal media, that they OVERcompensate by covering the activities of Palin, et al, to a greater degree than they warrant.

  • Revolver

    Actually, Peter, the first post didn’t get listed, as you can see it was only a minute before the second, identical post.

    On Point seems to think that posts under my moniker of Not a Chance need to be reviewed first, and I never know if they’ll make it on or not, so I sometimes immediately try a secondary e-mail address and moniker and VOILA! The same comment posts immediately!

    So all of your conjencture about the “courage of my convictions” are pointless in this instance… though I’m sure you’re reasoning may be correct for some other commenters.

  • Revolver

    BTW, the first post, though a minute earlier than the second, did not actually appear in the forum until about an hour after the second attempt posted immediately.

  • justanother

    Hello, any Tea Party supporter out there, I have asked this question numerous times online and in real life, but still haven’t gotten any “direct” answer, I’m going to try this again until I get a logical one.

    WHERE WERE YOU WHEN BUSH WAS IN THE OFFICE, NOTHING HAS CHANGED, EXCEPT THE SKIN COLOR OF OUR PRESIDENT?????????????????????????????????????????????????

    I will give you more credit if you admit it is about the skin color, instead of beating around the bush, creating self contradicted cardboard signs of slogans!

  • http://www.pnart.com peter nelson

    I haven’t been to a Tea Party, but am sympathetic with what I think are one of their core principles – that government at all levels is spending too much of our money and will soon be taking much more of it.

    You think they have “core principles”? Where? Show us where they have ever stated a manifesto!

    What are they willing to give up? Social Security? Medicare? The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? It’s easy to say “cut taxes”, but what spending cuts are you willing to accept? Roads, bridges, FDA? SEC? USDA? CDC?

    Answer my “Bubba” question from last week – Bubba, the 54 y.o. unemployed mill worker in Arkansas with a wife and 2 kids rolls his pickup and has $400K in ER and reconstructive surgery expenses – who pays for it? Or do we leave Bubba on the side of the road?

    “Tea Party” is pure emotion – they have no cognitive function behind their anger and frustration. They have no plan, no platform, no numbers that add up. They’re adult crybabies who imagine that if they whine enough, some grownups up in the sky will make everything right again.

  • Revolver

    Also, I added “Peter,” to the intro, because trying to repost an identical post brings up a “505 Error,” whatever that is.

  • ulTRAX

    “Posted by Righty Dhujbheg”

    LOL…. I just got it!

  • Todd

    “Hello, any Tea Party supporter out there, I have asked this question numerous times online and in real life, but still haven’t gotten any “direct” answer, I’m going to try this again until I get a logical one.

    WHERE WERE YOU WHEN BUSH WAS IN THE OFFICE, NOTHING HAS CHANGED, EXCEPT THE SKIN COLOR OF OUR PRESIDENT?????????????????????????????????????????????????

    I will give you more credit if you admit it is about the skin color, instead of beating around the bush, creating self contradicted cardboard signs of slogans!”
    Posted by justanother

    @ justanother:
    You are exactly right about one thing: “NOTHING HAS CHANGED”!

    So, where are YOU, now that Obama is in office following the VERY SAME policies that Bush followed?

    That phony racial argument you’re using can be played right back at you: Are you now supporting the very same policies that Bush promoted, merely because the president now promoting them is a person of color?

    For the record, neither Bush nor Obama got my vote. I did/do not vote for the corporate bought-and-paid-for political “puppets” offered by either one of the major parties.

    No, I’m not a Tea-Party member; but it doesn’t take one to see through the hypocrisy of your blanket accusation.

  • ulTRAX

    Jeff wrote The only people who attack tax cuts are those who don’t pay taxes.
    Aside from the fact that you don’t know what you’re talking about, pray tell how can ANY tax cuts be justified when We The People are now $12.5 TRILLION in debt????
    Tax cuts are fine if we have a true surplus… ie… NO DEBT. I’m not talking about an annual budget surplus where we’re still trillions in debt. To that I think a rainy day fund would be desirable.

    But to have tax cuts when we’re in swimming in red ink is irresponsible because despite the Orwellian Right claims that tax cuts are a Free Lunch where revenue pours in… it’s a LIE. In the years after the Bush tax cuts revenues (inflation adjusted dollars) from personal income taxes NEVER exceeded Bill Clinton’s last year!

    That’s EIGHT YEARS OF LOST REVENUES.

  • justanother

    Todd,

    Your reverse accusation of me is not logical and reasonable, although you are not a Tea Party member, but you start to sound like one by accusing people without any credible base.

    I did not join any kind of group to raise cardboard signs of “name calling”, “fact twisting” and total “disrespect” when Bush was in the office during his 8 years of presidency. Bush started to lose my respect and confidence after his 3rd year, giving the fact of his policies and leadership in domestic and international issues. I judge Bush by his performance, not by accusing hime for something he has NOT done. I gave Bush every chance and benefit of doubt, but the Tea Party gave Obama NON OF THE ABOVE, THAT”S GHE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE!

    They, the Tea Party all of sudden come out of nowhere before Obama even had any chance, it all started out on the campaign trail, before inauguration, before he set foot in the White House . Don’t even try to tell me this has nothing to do with PREJUDICE & BIAS! On many level, Tea Party’s motives are driven by BIAS!

    Oh, by the way, “for the record” I’m not black, just in case you make another accusation of me playing the race card. Denying racism dose not exist equates lying to yourself and justifying the unreasonable bigotry.

  • justanother

    Todd, let me give you further help on differentiating between a sensible person and a crazy person. I NEVER wish Bush FAIL. See the difference, or maybe not?

  • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/2006/10/bushs-debt-now-bigger-than-two-world.html ulTRAX

    Just a little visual aid for those who really have no comprehension what a billion is:

    http://87billion.com/

    The page is a bit dated and I wish it graphically showed what our current national debt was.

    Back in ’06 I discovered that the Bush debt then equaled the size of both World Trade Towers

    http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/2006/10/bushs-debt-now-bigger-than-two-world.html

  • Alex

    Republicans are at it again trying to block debate on the financial reform bill. Again, instead of taking an opportunity to influence and shape a major piece of legislation before it is enacted, they will wake up after the fact and start telling us what should have been included in the Act. It should be the GOP’s Waterloo. Somebody, please form a new party to replace these useless clowns.

  • Frank Strong

    Three planks of the tea party movement are as follows:

    1. “Protect the Constitution: Require each bill to identity the specific provision of the Constitution that gives Congress the power to do what the bill does.”

    2. “Reject cap and trade: Stop costly new regulations that would increase unemployment, raise consumer prices, and weaken the nation’s global competitiveness with virtually no impact on global temperatures.”

    3. “Demand a balanced budget: Begin the Constitutional amendment process to require a balanced budget with a two-thirds majority needed for any tax hike.”

  • kung fu

    Todd, before you start making false charges of racism against consevatives, answer one simple question for me, WHY DID BARACK OBAMA SIT IN THE PEWS OF JEREMIAH WRIGHT’S CHURCH FOR 20 YEARS WHEN THAT MAN WAS MAKING HATEFUL STATEMENTS SUCH AS “U.S.A OF K.K.K.” AND “GOD*&@# AMERICA” ??

  • Hee Hee Ho

    To Fu…

    you missed something, didn’t you?

    Well, since you can’t figure out that Todd is one of your very own, I’ll give you the answer you’re looking for:

    Jeremiah Wright was as right as rain… to anyone with a brain, that is.

    Why wouldn’t anyone with a brain stay to hear the truth spoken for once… regardless of how it makes jingo-fed, flag-wearing, corn-eaters like you feel?

  • Alex

    1. “Protect the Constitution: Require each bill to identity the specific provision of the Constitution that gives Congress the power to do what the bill does.”

    2. “Reject cap and trade: Stop costly new regulations that would increase unemployment, raise consumer prices, and weaken the nation’s global competitiveness with virtually no impact on global temperatures.”

    3. “Demand a balanced budget: Begin the Constitutional amendment process to require a balanced budget with a two-thirds majority needed for any tax hike.”

    These are the Tea Party agenda items? I support #1 and #3.

  • Marcy Roberts

    The Left’s Attack On Climate Science Continues: More Fabrication of Temperatures Uncovered | Main | Total F.U.B.A.R. – Climate Scientists Admit That Both Global Warming Heat & CO2 Are Missing – They Can’t Find Either »

    Liberals/Democrats Stunned To Learn Glaciers Started Melting 100+ Years Before 1980: Not Aware of Little Ice Age End!
    Read here. Much to the consternation of leading leftists/liberals/progressives, the press is starting to inform these mainstream elites of real data-based science. They are now learning about the empirical evidence which shows that global warming has been happening since the end of the Little Ice Age.

    Of course, this means glaciers have been melting well before a human CO2 influence, say about 130 years before, which has been a cruel slap in the face for most of the left/liberal elites in the U.S., especially coming so soon after the IPCC Himalaya glacier melting fraud.

    “The park’s glaciers have been slowly melting away since about 1850, when the centuries-long Little Ice Age ended. They once numbered as many as 150, and 37 of those glaciers eventually were named.”….Hmm….That means the glaciers at Glacier National Park were melting for 60 years before the park was founded in 1910….Actually, the glaciers are a far cry from what they were 15,000 years ago when glaciers covered one-third of North America.”

  • peter nelson

    pray tell how can ANY tax cuts be justified when We The People are now $12.5 TRILLION in debt????

    They can be justified if there are equivalent or greater (if they’re trying to actually REDUCE the deficit) spending cuts.

    But the utterly gutless and arithmetic-impaired leadership of the Tea Party have not identified spending cuts of anything near that magnitude.

    So far their record is perfect – they have avoided answering every hard question, whether it’s healthcare or the budget. They’re nothing but crybabies with no real ideas.

  • Michael

    peter nelson,

    “They can be justified if there are equivalent or greater (if they’re trying to actually REDUCE the deficit) spending cuts.”

    or get enough people to believe they will,even when it’s clearly proven to be false. A Lie is far easier to sell to people than the truth.

    I had a conversation with a collage friend last week, and she was telling me some crazy things about obama, illegals, being Kenyan, and she was pretty sure it was true and being covered up by the news, I started asking her questions about each and if it made sense to her, if she checked the source or looked at anything else(news, etc) the answer was no, and she was busy so she did not have the time.

    After disproving the fears she had, and recommending that she research herself she was shocked that the person who sent her the information was giving her misinformation, lies and half-truths,I even asked her if see listen to or believes Rush L? She said of course not, I than presented her with some of the information she was saying came mainly from him.

    My girlfriends father get a daily news letter on how obama is a socialist, commies and etc.

    My thought are most Americans esp Independents tend to spend little time validating sources or reading the news and receive most their news in sound bites, and repeated talking points, Hench why republicans with there normally simple talking point’s and echo chamber seems to work on people who even know the information does not make sense believe it.

  • Michael

    Could Onpoint point have a show on the rise of Milita’s with a Democratic President, and a Republican one, maybe some stat’s and history as well.

  • zack

    Dear Tom Ashbrooke,
    Please, if you’re going to have Jack Beatty on to play the race card against the Tea Partiers, at least have someone credible on to defend them. Actually, you should always have a real conservative on (like Tom Woods, not some neocon or GOP hack) to counter Jack, who just always repeats the dailykos talking points.

    I went to the tax day protest in Chicago, and there were several racial minority participants (though it was mostly white), and there were also racial minority counter protesters. I did not witness any racial conflict or hostility – the only real conflict came between white Tea Partiers and white counter-protesters – go figure.

    I don’t claim to be a Tea Party member – I am more in line with the views of Ron Paul (no more empire, end the drug war, repeal the Patriot Act, no bailouts). I just find it disgusting that NPR continues to vilify the Tea Party, simply because it opposes their collectivist/corporatist agenda. I guess that is NPR playing to its core listener ship. Well keep it up NPR; the more the media smears the Tea Party – the more the Right will rally around it, just as they rallied around the moronic Sarah Palin.

  • zack

    Regarding financial reform – On Point is so eager to carry the water for the Dems; makes me sick. I despise McConnell, but he’s right in describing the proposed legislation as enabling for yet more bailouts.

    One provision of the bill would give the banks up to $4 trillion in the next bailout – http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=a48c8UpUMxKQ
    The $50 billion fund is a joke, considering that Citigroup alone is over $1 trillion in negative equity using real mark-to-market accounting.

    Real financial reform legislation would audit the Fed, which bought over $2 trillion of junk assets from the banks in a stealth bailout. Real financial reform would eliminate all of the federal backstops and insurance that create moral hazard and encourage excessive risk-taking. Real financial reform would stop forcing Americans to invest their savings in the Wall Street casino, by ending inflation in the currency, and eliminating special 401K tax treatment.

    Instead, what we are getting is a hodge-podge of BS designed to keep the to big to fail banks at the top of the pile. Check out The Creature from Jekyll Island, if you want to understand how corrupt our banking system really is, and why this legislation will do nothing to prevent the next financial crisis.

  • peter nelson

    Could Onpoint point have a show on the rise of Milita’s

    Oh puh-lease – we’re ALREADY giving way too much attention to right-wing wackos. It’s like children – if they whine and throw a tantrum and you respond it only reinforces that behavior.

    As I noted above, the Tea Party and their fellow travelers like to drive around in pickups and wave their guns around and act all macho and tough, but they’re really cowards who haven’t got the guts to face real policy issues with actual plans and ideas. Because that would be too haaaAARD! And they weren’t very good in school anyway and making a budget plan or how to pay for Bubba’s healthcare when he rolls his pickup is too much like writing a paper for class – you have to think and do research.

    So their strategy is to create a big distracting ruckus with their whining and rallies, and the media is happy to oblige them. Today WBUR, OnPoint’s host station, is doing an hour-long program on the local Tea Party. Enough, already.

  • justanother

    Michael,

    Unfortunately your story is only one of millions of Americans, whose information coming from sound bits and rhetoric, which the GOP knows exactly how to use them to brainwash to mislead people.

  • david

    From Obama’s former church he attended for 20 years.
    THE BLACK VALUE SYSTEM http://www.trinitychicago.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=114
    Trinity United Church of Christ adopted the Black Value System, written by the Manford Byrd Recognition Committee, chaired by the late Vallmer Jordan in 1981.

    8.Disavowal of the Pursuit of “Middleclassness.” Classic methodology on control of captives teaches that captors must be able to identify the “talented tenth” of those subjugated, especially those who show promise of providing the kind of leadership that might threaten the captor’s control.
    Those so identified are separated from the rest of the people by:
    ◦Killing them off directly, and/or fostering a social system that encourages them to kill off one another.
    ◦Placing them in concentration camps, and/or structuring an economic environment that induces captive youth to fill the jails and prisons.
    ◦Seducing them into a socioeconomic class system which, while training them to earn more dollars, hypnotizes them into believing they are better than others and teaches them to think in terms of “we” and “they” instead of “us.”

    I am not sure what to think of this, no wonder the races cannot get along. Who is spreading discord???

  • justanother

    ****Could Onpoint point have a show on the rise of Milita’s****

    NO!! enough nonsense alright! I would try to figure why a “real” baby cry, but not with a bunch of adult babies wearing diapers.

  • Todd

    “Todd, let me give you further help on differentiating between a sensible person and a crazy person. I NEVER wish Bush FAIL. See the difference, or maybe not?”
    Posted by justanother

    @ justanother:
    You totally miss—or ignore—my point: it’s impossible to defend either Bush or Obama; not because of their skin color, but because the policies of BOTH men are wrong. THEY BOTH FAIL! See the similarity, or maybe not?

  • justanother

    ***You totally miss—or ignore—my point: it’s impossible to defend either Bush or Obama; not because of their skin color, but because the policies of BOTH men are wrong. THEY BOTH FAIL! See the similarity, or maybe not?***

    @Todd,

    I’m afraid you are also missing the point of my original question. If you go back to my 2nd post, I wasn’t even talking about whose policy right or wrong, my focal point was to ask Tea Party where they were during Bush’s 8 year. You know, there’s a difference in time sequence here, but you don’t seem to get it.

    Again, you beat around the bush, turn around playing dodge ball by making reverse accusation just like the Tea Party.

    If Tea Party is legitimate, it shouldn’t be that hard to answer a simple logical question. I can assure you before I join any group, I will make sure I’m not required to polish my “dodging skill”, instead to polish my logic, reasons and well informed.

  • peter nelson

    Unfortunately your story is only one of millions of Americans, whose information coming from sound bits and rhetoric, which the GOP knows exactly how to use them to brainwash to mislead people

    And the sad thing is that many people choose to get their information from sound bits and rhetoric.

    The left and the right both characterize Americans as mindless sheep led around by propagandists. The right says it’s “big liberal media”; the left says it’s Fox and AM talk radio.

    But everyone has a choice about where to get their information, how much time to spend doing it, how much background information to gather, how many different and diverse sources to use, how much history or economics to study, or even whether to improve their research and study skills. Some people wouldn’t know how to begin to find out what’s in the federal budget, for example. And some of those people would choose to give up at that point, while others would choose to FIND OUT where to look it up. Either way they are making a choice.

    Democracies always get the societies they deserve because people are not sheep – they have free will and they can decide whether and how to be informed.

  • justanother

    I remember those days when I was reading and watching news of headlines, I didn’t spend enough time to delve into detailed information. But I was humble enough to knew I don’t know enough to go out to protest and waving signs I have no thorough knowledge of, it will only make a person look ignorant and overly subjective.

    And this is a lot of what Tea Party supporters doing right now. Funny thing is some of what they fight against are the same as the left fight against, but next thing you know, they’ll wave a sign totally contradicts what they support or fight against, at the end of day they zero themselves out. Tea Party really puts me in the mind of a bunch of walking dead without brains

  • Steve V

    I’m sitting here wondering: What does the average working husband/wife think of all these conflicts? I imagine them working 40+ hours a week, raising children, paying bills, shopping, etc, and trying to make sense of it all. Where do they obtain their information? When to they have time to “study the issues”? As confusing as issues were years ago, today they are more so and getting worse. I have the feeling that this gridlock in our government will mean the status quo for the next several years at which time our problems, serious as they are now, will be impossible to deal with. Then change will be forced upon us, like it or not. I guess I’m just not sure, given the nature of people, that any form of government will work.

  • Todd

    @ justanother:

    I’m NOT disagreeing with you about questioning the 8- year silence of those who are now being vocal. It’s a valid question. I think much of the answer lies in human nature: the reluctance of people to admit they were wrong, and that they were played for fools. Instead of people just admitting that they voted for a corrupt idiot who campaigned on lies—whether it’s Bush or Obama or whomever—they attempt to rationalize away all the discrepancies between the campaign promises and the post-election realities.

    Yes, the Republicans had their 8-year opportunity to take Bush to task for betraying his oath to the people. But, NOW it’s the Democrats turn; and it beginning to look as if they are no better at admitting the empty promises and corruption of their candidate than the Republicans!

    My “reverse accusation,” as you call it, is no more or less illogical than your original accusation, that ALL the Tea Party’s criticisms are merely motivated by racism. So, using your logic (or lack thereof), anyone who questions or criticizes Obama is a de facto racist? Does that make Alan Keyes a racist? Yes, no? Oh, that’s right, Keyes can’t be a racist for questioning Obama, because Keyes is black! That makes him a traitor to his own race, not a racist, right?

    Before you attempt to “polish” any of your skills, I’d suggest you procure a fresh rag.

  • peter nelson

    I imagine them working 40+ hours a week, raising children, paying bills, shopping, etc, and trying to make sense of it all. Where do they obtain their information? When to they have time to “study the issues”?

    The average American spends 2.7 hours/day watching TV as a leisure activity (source BLS – http://www.bls.gov/news.release/atus.nr0.htm) Other sources suggest higher numbers- Nielsen says 151 hours/month http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/TV/02/24/us.video.nielsen/

    Keep in mind that the 40 hour workweek is a relatively new innovation, not becoming widespread until the 1930′s. And we’ve also seen the invention of many labor-saving and time-organizing technologies, and furthermore that families have become smaller, meaning that over the course of our lifetimes there’s only 15-20 years or so where intense child rearing takes up much time. Yet at the end of the 19th century a larger percentage of the population read a daily newspaper than today.

    So I don’t think it’s that hard to read a good daily newspaper (I read the Wall Street Journal) a good weekly news magazine (I read The Economist) and check out a few other magazines with different viewpoints or topics, or listen to a few podcasts (I like the LSE lecture series while I’m mowing the lawn, cooking dinner or cleaning). I read a lot of other stuff, too, but I consider the rest to be above-and-beyond what the average person could or would want to do.

    But as I said – it comes down to choice. If being a well-informed citizen matters to people then they will MAKE time for it; if it doesn’t they won’t.

  • peter nelson

    Speaking of being well-informed, Science magazine (I’m an AAAS member) reported in a recent issue on an NSF poll …

    45% of Americans in 2008 answered true to the statement, “Human beings, as we know them today, developed from earlier species of animals.” The figure is similar to previous years and much lower than in Japan (78%), Europe (70%), China (69%), and South Korea (64%). The same gap exists for the response to a second statement, “The universe began with a big explosion,” with which only 33% of Americans agreed

    I’m willing to make a guess how most tea partiers and Republicans would answer those questions.

  • Larry

    obama always seems to surround himself with radical people. Now the WaPo is reporting that Al Sharpton has become a close White House adviser.

  • Debbie

    It would be interesting to see a show comparing LBJ and obama. Both are spending massive amounts on social programs while a major war is ongoing.

  • Alex

    “It would be interesting to see a show comparing LBJ and obama. Both are spending massive amounts on social programs while a major war is ongoing.”

    Would somebody please give a quick run down on what exactly Obama is spending on social programs? I know what has been spent on wars and bailouts, but social programs? I am one of those super busy parents. I work something like 60 hours a week for a law firm and don’t always have time to follow these things.

  • ER

    Yeah, and of course Republicans would ditch the programs that help struggling Americans, but they would keep the wars.

    … I’d rather see the President ditch the idiotic wars which accomplish nothing and create more problems than they solve, then use the money instead to help more struggling Americans and fire up the economy even more than he’s been trying to do… against all Republican opposition, naturally.

  • justanother

    **** I think much of the answer lies in human nature: the reluctance of people to admit they were wrong, and that they were played for fools. Instead of people just admitting that they voted for a corrupt idiot who campaigned on lies—whether it’s Bush or Obama or whomever—they attempt to rationalize away all the discrepancies between the campaign promises and the post-election realities. ****

    How convenient! 8 years of hibernation! Wow, very impressive, they sure time it out very well as when to awake from their hibernation, as if Walt Disney got thawed out after 8 years of Bush, woke up with President Obama in the office, blaming all damages are done by Obama, calling him names basing on past 8 years of damage. Laughable excuse, but not a logical “reason”.

    **** My “reverse accusation,” as you call it, is no more or less illogical than your original accusation, that ALL the Tea Party’s criticisms are merely motivated by racism ****

    Oh, my bad, not only they are motivated by racism, they are also motivated by their self suffocating biased ideology.

    **** Before you attempt to “polish” any of your skills, I’d suggest you procure a fresh rag. ****

    Perhaps fresh rag should start with the accused — Tea Party. Oh, yeah, I forgot they do come up with too many, they are tangled with their own rags, can’t tell which is fresh or old, oh, well, they all get old eventually.

    When one loses base of logic and reasoning, one loses credibility and legitimacy. Nothing complicated or deep about this simple practice.

  • peter nelson

    “obama always seems to surround himself with radical people. Now the WaPo is reporting that Al Sharpton has become a close White House adviser.”

    Here’s the article. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/16/AR2010041602381.html

    Show us where it says that he’s an “adviser”, nevermind a close one.

    The article is about how Sharpton has become a political ally, shoring up Obama’s ties to the black community where he’s been taking a lot of heat lately, and which Democrats will need in the midterm election. Politics, as the saying goes, makes strange bedfellows.

  • ER

    Sharpton isn’t such a strange bedfellow, IMO… there’s hardly a Dem or Presidential candidate who wouldn’t try to win him over because of his following, and in many past elections including the last, even the Republican candidates courted him as well as they could.

  • Wilson

    I agree the we should cut and run from Iraq and Afghanistan. And pull out of S. Korea, German and Japan. The war is over there too. President Bush made a mistake with those tax cuts for the wealthy and taking 5 million people off the federal income tax rolls. I hope they roll those people back on when those tax cuts expire next year.

  • Larry

    Advisor, ally, buddy, call him what you want but it’s a slap in the face to decent hardworking Americans to have “Al” in the White House.

  • ER

    Yeah? Why would that be, “Larry?”

  • Alex

    GE has filed tax returns all over the World, but paid zero last year to the USA. So did Exxon.

  • justanother

    Correction —

    ***Perhaps fresh rag should start with the accused — Tea Party***

    I meant to say the “accuser” — Tea Party.

  • ulTRAX

    Frank Strong wrote: Three planks of the tea party movement are as follows:

    1. “Protect the Constitution: Require each bill to identity the specific provision of the Constitution that gives Congress the power to do what the bill does.”

    Sounds good… but between the General Welfare intent, and the necessary & proper clause… almost anything can be justified. And on a side note… Right likes to claim a monopoly on defending the Constitution. Is there much evidence beside the rhetoric? Isn’t a self-proclaimed Originalist like Scalia proof? Hardly. Scalia isn’t what he or the GOP claimed. He actually believes government is free to do anything not prohibited… yet when it comes to rights, he wants them limited to those enumerated. Like Bork… Scalia has no use for the Ninth Amendment. You might find this article by a conservative critic of Scalia interesting… http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0206c.asp

  • Alex

    I am all for a health care reform, but mandating citizens to buy stuff is going to far. Which clause in the Constitution supports that?

  • justanother

    This is in general a sad situation when most money went to bail out the bankers & Wall Street, Stimulus and money went to wars, not much left for common goods, this is why Obama doesn’t have much cushion to move around the money, so he has to bargain. Bush left out the money for the wars in the deficit, Obama inherited much worse deficit because of Bush’s playing with numbers to make deficit to look better than it is.

  • Janet

    President Bush was a big liberal spender so I’m surprised the liberals don’t love him. He let Ted Kennedy write the No Child Left Behind Act, granted Ted’s wish for Senior Drug Plan and took 5 million people off the Federal Tax Rolls. So, it’s liberal spending then as now that is killing us.

  • ER

    That’s not even the tip of the iceberg in terms of what Obama ingerited.

    The thing that’s messing with Obama and the Dems most was also inherited (besides the economic mess in general)… namely, millions of lost jobs that simply will never come back.

    The media doesn’t even mention that fact much, but many, perhaps most, of the jobs lost under Bush are jobs that will likely never need to be replaced… either due to disappearing industries, outsourcing to other countries, or business efficiencies discovered or forced in the due to the severity of the recession.

    This is Bush’s greatest crime against Americans, and it goes unmentioned.

    Bush squandered the wealth of some of America’s most affluent years on whimsical wars and reckless tax cuts to the wealthy and corporations… instead, he could have been shoring up American infrastructure, social programs, immigration policy, and business against the inevitable tidal shift of a changing economy. Many knew that there was going to be a sea change in How Americans support themselves, and Bush wasted the critical years we had to prepare.

    This is why we have and will long have unemployment above 10 percent.

    … and still Republicans stand in the way of progress.

    Of course, some of the boneheads in this forum will claim that Dems should have made all those preparations in the year they had in power before the economic collapse, and under a hostile, inept president Bush.

    Naturally, they won’t admit the timeline for responsible foresight was fully under Bush and the Republicans, during the affluent years.

    Note I say affluent, rather than prosperous… Bush also saw to it that all the great wealth during that period was skewed to the top, and was based largely on illusionary paper wealth and the gimmicks of the rich, rather than on real productivity that would benefit the masses.

  • Todd

    “When one loses base of logic and reasoning, one loses credibility and legitimacy. Nothing complicated or deep about this simple practice.”
    Posted by justanother

    @ justanother:
    Agreed; and thanks for providing an example!

  • Janet

    President Bush took action on Iraq. We could debate the success for years, but with Iran on the verge of getting a nuke bomb, we very easily prevented a nuclear war between Iraq and Iran or Iraq and the rest of the Middle East. The downfall of the American economy could be traced to the failure of Real Estate and both the right and left hand their hands into that mess. But at some point people have to realize that they can’t depend on the government to warn them of economic downturns. They occur about every ten years and we need to be prepared for them. If President Bush had been a true conservative he should have put an ice clamp on the economy and gone a war footing following 9-11. He tried the “new tone” approach (Having Ted over for Saturday night movies) and the left through it back into his face.

  • justanother

    *** Agreed; and thanks for providing an example! ***

    I’m afraid I can’t live up to your compliment, I will give the honor to the Tea Party. Thanks, anyway!

  • Impeach Obama

    Obama’s policy towards Israel is clearly being guided by his own rabid anti-semitism and his desire to see the Jewish state destroyed. That’s not going to happen you south-side Chicago thug.

  • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

    ER wrote: Bush squandered the wealth of some of America’s most affluent years on whimsical wars and reckless tax cuts to the wealthy and corporations… instead, he could have been shoring up American infrastructure, social programs, immigration policy, and business against the inevitable tidal shift of a changing economy. Many knew that there was going to be a sea change in How Americans support themselves, and Bush wasted the critical years we had to prepare.

    Since Reagan the GOP has been taken over by economic traitors who thought they could “starve” government programs they didn’t like with irresponsible tax cuts all which would be funded through BORROWING. They didn’t want to debate the virtue of these program. They would try to kill them through the back door.

    They could never admit this policy to the public, of course. Reagan ran on balancing the budget in 4 years, and Bush ran on protecting the Clinton surplus to strengthen Social Security. The GOP’s intent to sabotage Social Security was clear when they kept passing round after round of tax cuts for the rich even as that surplus disappeared.

    From one of Bush’s 2000 press releases:
    http://romcache.tripod.com/bush2000.pdf

    “These numbers demonstrate that Governor Bush’s balanced budget provides more than a trillion dollars of the surplus for Social Security and debt reduction, and still leaves $460 billion for a tax cut and $187 billion for other budget priorities,” said Bush for President economic advisor and former Federal Reserve Board Governor Lawrence Lindsey.

    “The bottom line is clear: Governor Bush’s plan takes care of Social Security first, provides America’s working families with a tax break, and does it all within the context of a balanced budget,”

  • ulTRAX

    Impeach Obama wrote: Obama’s policy towards Israel is clearly being guided by his own rabid anti-semitism and his desire to see the Jewish state destroyed.

    Yikes!!! 8-O

    I suspect even any evenhanded treatment we showed both the Israelis and Palestinians would be seen as anti-Semitic to some fanatics here. Sure you’re not just anti-Arab?

    It’s been clear especially since the late 70’s when Israel’s began to settle the West Bank that its policies towards the Palestinians were dragging down America’s image and inspiring much anti-American hatred in Arab world. That the US never tried to put a choke chain on the Israeli hardliners is the REAL scandal here. Hopefully Obama is just trying to send Netanyahu a message that we’re tired of the tail wagging the dog.

    If I had my way I’d threaten to cut off ALL aid to Israel until it came to a sensible two-state peace treaty with the Palestinians.

  • Marilyn Zilnitz

    The only viable solution to the budget deficit is to cut spending. We could quickly be in surplus and eating into that giant debt we’ve got. It would be so easy. Make it across the board, no area left untouched so that everybody’s got political cover.

  • Natalie

    I think you give Obama too much credit, he doesn’t have a cogent foreign policy , much less a policy toward Israel. He’s pretty much let Benny do whatever he wants to do, even when it costs lives. Obama can’t be bothered, he’s too busy extending the Patriot Act and practicing extraordinary rendition.

  • ulTRAX

    Hoping to be taken seriously Marilyn Zilnitz wrote The only viable solution to the budget deficit is to cut spending. We could quickly be in surplus and eating into that giant debt we’ve got. It would be so easy.

    Ya sure… it would be SOOOOOO Easy.

    Clearly you’re one of those one-variable GOPers I referred to in an earlier post. You have NO comprehension of the size of the deficit… or the debt. You actually believe that cutting spending, alone, can solve our problem… while ignoring entirely revenue. That’s odd since during ALL the Bush2 years income tax revenue (constant dollars) actually never again even reached Clinton’s last year. Isn’t that some clue that REVENUE is also an issue in solving this problem??????

    The ONLY viable solution is to not delude ourselves about why we have this massive deficit/debt. It’s largely because since Reagan the GOP has been hijacked by Tax Cut psychos who thought they could kill off all those social programs they loathed… not by debating their merits, but by sabotaging revenues. It SHOULD be obvious that both income and spending have to come under scrutiny.

    All calls for only ONE variable to be targeted is merely political masturbation… and can not be taken seriously.

  • joshua

    jack beady eyes you make me sick–you say we are dangerously close to losing our position in the world–who cares! Its this imperialist fascist attitude that has ruined our position in the world. It’s the ******* wars and American terrorism and torture that is ruining this nation–not space exploration (science and the spirit of peaceful adventure) If anything it is space exploration that will bring us all together. Nations co-operating towards a peaceful scientific goal instead of wasting lives, money, and dignity in the mass murder of war. Why don’t you people ever denounce the wars and torture. You always come short of ethical morality and honesty.

    i hate you people. I cant listen anymore. You are despicable.

    And the fact is–most tea-baggers (what a perverted name) are tools–like you–and they are toothless and ignorant. That’s a fact. I know. it includes my family (the mentality.) 75% of America is retarded and insane.

  • Impeach Obama

    Here’s some more bad news for all you misguided liberals, 58% of Americans support repeal of Obamacare (rasmussen). Look on the bright side democrats, at least you still have Joe Biden.

  • Janet

    Increase the number of people paying federal income taxes by 40 percent. Which means lowering the “bar” to catch those that don’t pay now.

  • Michael

    Rasmussen is about as creditable as Fox News is balanced, there #’s are almost always higher or lower than the average. Plus the Fact that many liberal’s or dem’s oppose it cause they want a single payer or public option(amazing this is never discuss in republicans rants)

    If someone say took the CNN poll it’s 47% for repeal and 50% fine with the law

    “According to the poll, 47 percent agree with the Republican strategy and want Congress to repeal most of the major provisions in the bill and replace them with completely new proposals. But 50 percent are fine with the current law or want Congress to go back and pass something that would increase the government’s involvement in health care even further.

    The 47 percent who favor “repeal and replace” is significantly lower than the 56 percent who say they disapprove of the bill’s passage last week.”

    “”That’s because opposition to the new law comes in many different forms and not all of them benefit the GOP,” says CNN Polling Director Keating Holland. “Some Americans continue to say that they disapprove of the bill because they want even more government involvement in health care than the bill created. Only a quarter are against the entire bill; one in three support at least a few proposals in the new law. And a handful of Americans appear to dislike the bill but don’t want Congress to spend any more time on health care.”"

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/03/29/cnn-poll-americans-divided-on-repealing-health-care-law/?fbid=bcuZQaK-94U

  • Janet

    A good time to reform tax codes is during a financial crisis like we now face. Lower the tax rate to exclude less than 5 percent (vs 47 percent) now, across the board 10 percent reduction in federal spending is a good wake up call for this year.

  • Michael

    As to Peter statement about choice,

    I partly agree people do have a choice on how informed they choose to be but many times not the ability to do so or realize. If many of the News Stations,Papers left out certain information or mis-reported on events than that person may think there getting the full scope but not have the ability to realize there not. If people cannot trust or are groomed or program to not trust other sources than it’s dampens there ability to be informed leading to direr consequences.

    The whole thing about NPR and Onpoint (a few years ago) was that they reported more than simple talking points and often went more in depth about stories where as cable news, FOX,CNN, MSNBC sensationalize there News and Reporting. I’m Assuming the ones who choose to be better informed listen to NPR, but as we know NPR received a nice chuck of change, changed into a Corporation, stop relying on personal donors in favor for Corporate ones. Started Sensationalizing its news like the Cable News Channels. Now there is few shows on NPR that still does what it did in the pasted since there not that much money involved in doing so.

    So if that same person choose to listen to NPR now to be better informed, they may think they are, like many who listen to fox’s but not have the ability to realize there not.

    example of choosing to be informed but not having the ability to be informed is people believing,

    Obama is a muslim,a facist, a socialist, a crazy radical liberal,does not pray on the bible, somehow can only talk with a teleprompter, in the same line all he can do is give good speech’s , even when there information that counters the above even on the same channel some people don’t have the ability to be informed to see the b.s.

    Just look on this site we have people calling obama some of the above, (you would think) even after listening to the show or many that counter those points they realize how dumb that seems.

    I bet in the former USSR,some citizen’s may have thought at the time they were well informed, but lacked the ability to be so.

  • ageofaquarius

    ****even when there information that counters the above even on the same channel some people don’t have the ability to be informed to see the b.s.****

    This is a great example of “Freedom of Speech” has become “Freedom of Misinforming, Deceiving, Fact Twisting”.

    We are proud of our freedom and democracy, but we need to do a better job at protecting them, not abusing them. Once we abuse these precious values, they are no longer credible.

    “Because freedom can’t protect itself” — ACLU

  • ageofaquarius

    ****If anything it is space exploration that will bring us all together.****

    Really? How so?

  • Brett

    “A good time to reform tax codes is during a financial crisis like we now face. Lower the tax rate to exclude less than 5 percent (vs 47 percent) now…” -”Janet”

    Hardly! Any decent economist will tell you that a recession is NOT the time to lower taxes. Even if you had taken economics 101, you would have heard that. And your drum-beating about people who don’t pay Federal payroll taxes…well, that is misguided, too. Most of those people are the elderly on a fixed income, college students who either aren’t working or have negligible incomes, working poor who are not earning a living wage, or the disabled. And, of the ones who are working, they still have payroll deductions (which they get back at the end of the year), and this amounts to an interest-free loan for the benefit of the government. All of this not to mention they pay state taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, and deductions for Social Security and Medicare.

    Your “brilliant” ideas seem to want to lay an “increased” tax rate on those aforementioned people rather than those of the wealthy who are paying less than any time in US history, or those wealthy who make money off of shuffling funds around to various investments and pay little or no taxes, or those large US corporations that make billions of dollars every year and pay little or no US taxes.

    What is true nonsense about what you are saying is that you seem to want to lower the tax rate!?! Not only is this unsound in this economy, as I’ve already said, it also would not bring that “47%” to pay more taxes, like you seem to want; and, in such a lousy economy, of those who are wealthy, if they have their taxes lowered, they are not going to expand businesses/create businesses/make a lot of speculative investments right now because the economy’s condition will not give them a good return on their investments.

    If you wanted to make an intelligent statement, rather than spouting uninformed rhetoric that makes no sense, you could say “increase the tax rate on the wealthiest Americans [nothing too dramatic, just up it 5%], and make large corporations like Exxon-Mobil pay something reasonable to the Federal government.”

    No honest discussion should exclude decreasing spending, but rather than spew the same, old, tired arguments about “entitlements” how ’bout we take a hard look at all of the waste and excessive spending we devote to the military? Using troops and private contractors to fight in various places throughout the world hasn’t served to make us “safer” in the past 9 years, better intelligence-gathering (a much less expensive proposition) has.

  • ulTRAX

    Someone wrote: So, it’s liberal spending then as now that is killing us.

    How much self-sabotage of one’s intellect is required to NOT acknowledge that REVENUE is as much a factor in deficits/debt as is spending? Sadly, it’s that self-sabotaging of the intellect that makes the rabid Right so irrational. When they actually deny that revenue (taxes) play ANY part in balancing a budget, they leave themselves no place to go but to blame all deficits/debt on spending. They ignore the simple fact that after the irresponsible Bush tax cuts, there was NO growth in income tax revenues (constant dollars) in EIGHT YEARS. Even now those revenues have never exceeded the 2000 Clinton levels.

    Nope… THAT can’t play ANY role in our deficits!

  • ulTRAX

    Janet wrote: A good time to reform tax codes is during a financial crisis like we now face. Lower the tax rate to exclude less than 5 percent (vs 47 percent) now, across the board 10 percent reduction in federal spending is a good wake up call for this year.

    I’ve always maintained that the Right not only wanted to sabotage revenues with irresponsible tax cuts in a deliberate attempt to create MORE DEBT, hoping to kill government programs they didn’t like… but when that debt had to be paid down, the Right hoped that by making the income tax LESS progressive, the burden would fall on the less well off… no doubt someone like Janet.

    Predictably, Janet has bought into this demented world view. She wants to keep all those tax cuts for the wealthy who plundered our Treasury, and shift the tax burden downward.

    No ad hominem insults are needed. Her crazed arguments are a sufficient insult to her and those like her.

  • Janet

    UlTRAX – What schools do you want to close? What roads don’t you want maintained?, do you want everyone to share the burden of a society? There is not logical reason for 47 percent of American citizens not to be paying some Federal Income tax.

  • Janet

    Bret – You would be surprised how tough the American people really are in a crisis. Asking someone to pay some Federal Income tax is not the end of the world. Just “lower the bar” from 47 to 5 percent. Perhaps some people will have to give up their cable tv or cell phone, but they will feel better about themselves and their financial contributions to the federal government.

  • Brett

    uLTRAX,
    I couldn’t agree more! Why promote tax burdens for the poor, elderly and disabled when the wealthy are enjoying the lowest tax rates in history? And, it sure seems as though conservatives want to destabilize our economy even further (the wealthy ones, anyway; the working conservatives just play marionette to their wealthy puppet masters). Wealthy conservatives can have more of a power grab in an unstable economy by diminishing the middle class and creating more working poor people; it makes for a more distinct class separation.

  • Janet

    According the IRS the wealthy are already paying the majority of the Federal Income Tax. It’s a mute point next year when President Bush’s tax cuts expire. This will be a huge tax increase during a recession, but so bet it. Still, that 47 percent number needs to be lowered to about 5 percent. They won’t mind paying, sharing the burden, helping the real poor, elderly, and disabled. It’s time for everyone to pay their fair share.

  • Brett

    “Janet”
    Perhaps the basic concepts I mentioned in my post are a little hard for you to understand. Once again, now pay close attention, here. If by “lowering the bar” you mean raising taxes on the working poor, elderly on fixed incomes, or the disabled, what do think will be achieved? Do you really think people “will feel better about themselves” without food, clothing and shelter? Do you think this will solve problems in our economy?

    You are also playing the “Cadillac Queen” game when you project images of poor people as conspicuous consumers of extravagance (“give up their cable TV or cell phone”). I’ll bet you never get any closer to a poor person than beyond giving them a disdainful glance from across a street. Of course you never mention reducing military spending or the fact that the wealthiest among us pay less taxes than they ever have in history! (Maybe they could go without that second yacht or the vacation homes in Europe?)

    Raising taxes by 5% on the wealthiest doesn’t seem like much of burden for them, does it? If they are inclined to create businesses and jobs because the economy is good, they will; lowering their tax rate, no matter how low, if the economy is bad won’t compel them to engage in such risky business.

  • Brett

    “Everyone needs to pay their fare share”

    If I were to try figuring out what you mean by “fair share” by reading your comments (as much as it seems more rhetoric than anything based on knowing what would be considered “fair”), it would seem you mean the same dollar amount. The reason wealthy pay more is because they have more! 10% of $100 is $10. 10% of $100 million is $10 million. Duh…You are using your IRS “facts” in a manipulative way; you know you are. Are you saying you want all people to pay the same dollar amount in taxes? Can you honestly say you “know” how that “47%” breaks down, in terms of elderly on a fixed income, working poor, and disabled vs. people who just don’t pay anything because they’re lazy underachievers? You imply that you know. of people who are part of that 47% and who are not elderly on a fixed income, working poor or disabled, what would the remainder percentage of the “47%” be? Let’s face it, Janet, you don’t now.

  • ulTRAX

    jANET wrote: UlTRAX – What schools do you want to close? What roads don’t you want maintained?, do you want everyone to share the burden of a society? There is not logical reason for 47 percent of American citizens not to be paying some Federal Income tax.

    My view is that tax cuts when We The People are in debt are irresponsible. Why? Because ALL such tax cuts are merely borrowing from future taxpayers plus interest.

    If a tax cut is thought necessary for a stimulus, then there better be some serious plan to recoup those revenues in the near future. I was against the proposed Gore cuts in 2000 and I’m not in favor of whatever tax cuts Obama passed.

    What I AM in favor of is recouping all those trillions that were given to the wealthy when we were in already in debt. I’m in favor of raising the top rate back to the Reagan 1981 ERTA 50% for 10-15 years. This does NOT mean I don’t favor spending cuts. That’s a topic for another thread. So please stick to the topic of revenues.

    I’ve been as clear as I can. Now let’s see what YOU actually believe.

    So you’re now in favor of letting the irresponsible Bush tax cuts expire? YES or NO? Or are you just in favor of extending the tax burden downwards while leaving those Bush tax cuts for the wealthy intact?

  • Janet

    ulTRAX – Why not raise the top rate back to 90 percent like back in the early 1960′s before JFK lowered them? At some point we have to realize poor, middle class people are not risk takers, don’t create wealth. They work for people that do take risks and create wealth. I think the Federal Income tax rate should stay at 28 percent, taxes on investment gains 5 percent on anything above 10k, bring back the All Savers Certificates that we had in the dearly 1980′s. I also think the idea of people being responsible for their own welfare. Quit thinking someone else is going to pay your bills for you.

  • ulTRAX

    Brett wrote: uLTRAX, I couldn’t agree more! Why promote tax burdens for the poor, elderly and disabled when the wealthy are enjoying the lowest tax rates in history?

    I hope my last post clears up my position. I’m more of a deficit hawk. I know what the Right has been up to these past 30 years. They have been trying to sabotage revenues to kill off programs they could not end through debate. They have deliberately sabotaged government’s ability to function and meet emergencies. I believe what the Right has done borders on treason. Bush pissed away some $2.9 TRILLION just on interest during his eight years.

    The Dems have had 30 YEARS to expose this ploy and have refused… leaving the Orwellian Right’s lies about tax cuts intact.

    What I’m concerned about is NOT that Janet wants to add more people to income tax roles, but that she wants to keep the rich from paying more even after We The People borrowed TRILLIONS to give them tax breaks. I’m concerned she wants to leave intact this raid on the Treasury and have those with lower incomes pay back that debt. Hopefully she’ll clear that up.

  • ulTRAX

    Janet wrote: ulTRAX – Why not raise the top rate back to 90 percent like back in the early 1960’s before JFK lowered them? At some point we have to realize poor, middle class people are not risk takers, don’t create wealth.

    You don’t see ANY contradiction in your beliefs? The 50′s and 60′s were rather prosperous times DESPITE those higher tax rates. Lowering the tax rates to Reagan’s low of 28% did NOT increase prosperity. It only created massive deficits.

    There’s another dynamic at play you might want to consider. When there’s higher tax rates the rich tend to reinvest in business. When massive tax cuts provide them too much spare cash they engage in reckless speculation. Combine that with deregulation in these financial markets and that can destabilize the economy. We saw that in 1929 and now again in 2008.

    I think the Federal Income tax rate should stay at 28 percent,

    Is ALL your information 20 years out of date? The top rate hasn’t been 28% since George “Read My Lips” Bush raised it to 31% with the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990.

    But thanks, Janet, for proving that your REAL agenda is to shift the tax burden DOWNWARD even after the GOP has already pillaged our children’s future to provide undeserved tax cuts for the wealthy.

    Yup… that’s what government is for… to keep the rich high on the hog while the rest of us pay through the nose. What happened to you Janet that you bought into such nonsense?

    Of course it’s also never occurred to you that perhaps we DON’T owe everything to the wealthy. As I wrote in another forum:

    I asked earlier what a killer idea would be worth in an impoverished 4th world nation. Obviously nothing.

    Our ability to prosper is in large part built upon the foundation knowledge, law, law enforcement, public infrastructure, public health, technology etc created by the interplay between the public and private sectors.

    While most conservatives would deny this, one sector bootstraps the other. THIS is the tide that floats all boats… not dependence on the wealthy.

    So, perhaps a better name for the Income Tax would be the Opportunity Tax. It’s paying for the use of that publically funded infrastructure which provided the basis for one to profit from their hard work and ideas.

  • ulTRAX

    Janet wrote: According the IRS the wealthy are already paying the majority of the Federal Income Tax.
    :roll: Janet, Janet, Janet… this is the same numbers game the Orwellian Right played in the 80′s trying to imply the rich were getting soaked even after the top rate dropped from 70% to 50% then to 28%.

    There’s an old expression that figures don’t lie but liars can figure.

    What is a bigger percentage of a shrinking income tax pie?

    Yes, the rich can pay a higher percentage of less… but is that the same as paying more money?

    Obviously not since as I’ve demonstrated that in constant dollars income tax revenues have FALLEN since 2000… or more precisely never exceeded 2000. One might expect these revenues to go up just because of increased population.

    There’s a giant revenue hole in our budget and adding more people in at the bottom is NOT the problem. It’s those three rounds of irresponsible Bush tax cuts.
    Deal with it.

    With deficits you can blame spending and revenues. But when you look JUST at income tax revenues and they are stagnant for 10 YEARS, there’s a problem here.

    The rich are NOT being overtaxed.

  • Janet

    The 1950′s and 1960′s we enjoyed near full employment due to a huge demand for consumer products which for the most part were produced in the USA. We enjoyed full or near full employment. Starting in the mid-1960′s we started to import more products..i.e. cheap tv’s from Japan. Going into the 1970′s we opened up our markets to foreign competition which destroyed many a USA company. High taxes did not do much except hinder growth. Even JFK, yes, JFK, realized taxes were too high and he lowered them.

    You think we are going to return to the glory years of the 1950′s and 1960′s by ‘taxing those darn rich people”…nope..47 percent not paying federal income taxes is a huge problem and needs to be corrected…quickly….

    Why not just bring back that great idea of a wealth tax. The one that taxed spending on high end items like boats, cars and rv?…it almost destroyed the boating industry in Florida.

    You are not concerned with being fair or honest. You just have a hate for people that have more than you. You think they came by their wealth dishonestly. Well.guess what..most wealthy people work harder than you and don’t concern themselves with “the other guy”. They are too busy building companies that employ people.

  • ulTRAX

    I should add that there’s a reason why lower income people have been dropped from the income tax rolls… and it’s not because the GOP ever cared about low income people.

    Since Reagan the intent of the Right has been to create as much debt as they can while providing massive tax breaks for the wealthy.

    But the Right can’t be honest about that policy for it would be seen as criminal by most Americans. So to sell that policy they throw some crumbs in for the non-rich… and sell the tax cut as “for all working families”. Doing so drops more and more low income workers off the income tax rolls.

    That the Orwellian Right as of late has been harping on this 47% of the people pay no income taxes has some agenda behind it. And I think we see its fruit in Janet’s proposal to bring more low income people back on the income tax rolls… WITHOUT raising taxes on the rich.

    Which brings us back to something I wrote earlier… that the intent of the Right is not just to create massive debt to kill social programs, but to shift the tax burden downward.

    What a world they want… most people paying taxes to pay off debt caused by massive tax cuts for the rich… and getting nothing back from government in return.

    Yes… there IS class warfare going on… and the Rich are winning… in large part because of dupes like Janet.

  • Janet

    Get your facts correct. Ronald Reagan loved the Earned Income Credit. He called it one of the best welfare programs out there. President Bush took 5 million people off the federal tax rolls to get the tax cut for the wealthy. President Bush created that drug program for ALL SENIORS..no means testing BECAUSE that is what the liberals wanted. So Bill Gates gets a break on his meds..Happy?….Is he one of those “poor elderly” you talk about?
    You are a pawn for the liberals. Right overspent? yup…25 percent increases across the board for each and every federal program during the bush years.
    What has your boy obama done in 1.5 years? cut spending much?…naw…double down…
    Knock down that 47 percent to 5 percent. Like obama said..he wants to be fair…and it’s only fair that we all share in the burden.

  • Janet

    Got to run..I work a part time job to fund my HSA. Too bad some of those 47 percent people don’t do that huh?

  • ulTRAX

    Janet wrote High taxes did not do much except hinder growth. Even JFK, yes, JFK, realized taxes were too high and he lowered them.

    OK… I agree with you. If you think the 70% top rate in JFK (actually it was LBJ) tax cuts were so beneficial… BRING THEM BACK!!!

    You can’t have it both ways that things were peachy under 90 or 70% top rates then say we need to have them drop to 28%.

    The game of the Orwellian Right is to always push for MORE tax cuts no matter how much debt we have. They credit ALL growth to tax cuts. They pretend there’s a windfall of revenue from them. In the 80’s they were SO dishonest they even pretended revenues from some major Reagan tax HIKES in 82 and 83 were a windfall from the 1981 tax cuts!

    How many ways can you spell LIES and DISTORTIONS?

    Clinton PROVED we can have a growing economy even though he raised the top tax rate from 31% to 39.6%. Ever since then the Orwellian Right has been desperate to find some way to discredit this simple fact… even to go as far as to credit Reagan for the Clinton economy.

    Is there any wonder I call such propaganda efforts Orwellian?

  • peter nelson

    Advisor, ally, buddy, call him what you want but it’s a slap in the face to decent hardworking Americans to have “Al” in the White House.

    No it’s not “call him what you want”. Words have meanings and you used a specific phrase, “close adviser”, which is a deliberately untrue statement.

    You were perfectly capable of expressing the thought that Sharpton’s relationship with the Obama administration was, to you, an abomination, but instead you chose to make up a lie.

    The conservatives do this all the time – facts mean nothing to them – they’re only interested in creating an impression. As far as people like Larry are concerned everything they say is valid until someone DISproves it. They feel no obligation to speak the truth.

  • d-Arcy

    ** At least jack Beatty didn’t hyperventilate this week.

    ** Caller “Jim” repeated that shibboleth about the so-called Clinton surpluses. I still haven’t figured out what kind of smoke and mirrors they used to claim surpluses in years they ran up the debt. I suspect it’s akin to borrowing on a home equity line, putting the proceeds in the checking account and saying you have a balanced budget because the checking account isn’t overdrawn. The worst part of that claim is that as George W. was coming into office the CBO was touting six trillion in surpluses over the next ten years. Even absent 9-11 Congress would have gone on a spending spree. “Jim” also denigrated the Medicare Prescription Drug program. Note that Democrats had been screaming for such a program for twenty years.

    ** Caller “Carlo” called Mike McConnell a lair. I’m not going to say that everything they say is a lie, but nothing the following Washington persons say is to be trusted: Barack Obama, Henry Waxman, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid. Obama telegraphs his lies by acting “folksy”. The louder Reid talks the more likely it is he’s lying.

    ** Banking regulation that doesn’t include a limit, at about $100 billion, on the size of the resulting entity as a result of a bank merger isn’t worth the paper it’s written on. Most of today’s biggest banks are the result of mergers between banks that had already been labeled “too big to fail” during the S&L debacle in 1989.

  • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

    Janet wrote: Get your facts correct. Ronald Reagan loved the Earned Income Credit. He called it one of the best welfare programs out there.

    What facts? You mean my belief that the GOP doesn’t care about low income people? So why would they support getting some of them off the income tax rolls or support the EITC? That seems to be a contradiction, doesn’t it. Not really.
    First, as I suggested before, the GOP NEEDS the poor as a smokescreen to achieve their REAL goal… tax cuts for the wealthy. They could only sell these irresponsible tax cuts IF they wrote them in a way that seemed to benefit others.

    Why does the GOP support the EITC? Some, perhaps like Reagan did. I have to look into that. But it’s clear that’s not always the case given the EITC is also a blatant redistribution of wealth that existed LONG before Obama. So isn’t the bigger question here… why did the Right suddenly jumped on this redistribution of wealth theme back during the 2008 campaign?

    Gee… you don’t think they were cynically trying to incite people like you, do you? They probably wanted to head off the sunsetting of the Bush Tax cuts by convincing the faithful that it was an attempt to take from the rich as part of some grand socialist scheme.

    That certainly sounds more respectable than telling the truth… that the Bush tax cuts were part of the GOPs constant class warfare behalf of the rich.

  • ulTRAX

    Oops… forgot this last paragraph to my last post:

    The Right’s ability to manipulate people to support policies that actually hurt them… and get these culture war dupes to LOVE it, is beyond question. If I’m correct, then all that Right wing crap you listen to has a hidden agenda… to build the case that the noble rich are being fleeced by the current income tax system and the evil poor are getting away with murder.

  • david

    “It must be said, that like the breaking of a dam, the American decent into Marxism is happening with breath taking speed, against the back drop of a passive, hapless sheeple, excuse me dear reader, I meant people.”
    *”First, the population was dumbed down through a politicized and substandard education system…..”
    *”Then their faith in God was destroyed….”
    *”The final collapse has come with the election of Barack Obama.”….

    “The proud American will go down into his slavery with out a fight, beating his chest and proclaiming to the world, how free he really is. The world will only snicker.”
    Stanislav Mishin
    An observation from a Russian writer

  • ulTRAX

    d-Arcy wrote: Caller “Jim” repeated that shibboleth about the so-called Clinton surpluses. I still haven’t figured out what kind of smoke and mirrors they used to claim surpluses in years they ran up the debt. I suspect it’s akin to borrowing on a home equity line, putting the proceeds in the checking account and saying you have a balanced budget because the checking account isn’t overdrawn.

    What’s so hard to understand? At some point more revenue comes in than the government spends during a budget cycle.

    Under our perverse accounting system we can have one of three kinds of surplus.

    The least honest one is for the “unified budget” which means “off budget” Social Security might be running a surplus, but it’s loaning money to cover an “on-budget” deficit.

    A TRUE budget surplus would be when revenues cover all the on-budget spending and any surplus can be used to pay down the public debt.

    The last surplus would be if all the $12.5 trillion debt was paid down. Ya right!

    Since the terms are the same, it’s easy to mislead the public. For instance in 2000 the Right was telling us the surplus proved we were over taxed. But that was only a “budget surplus”. They were sweeping under the rug the $5.9 TRILLION in debt.

    As for Clinton, in FY 1998 we first reached a budget surplus in the unified budget. The first on-budget surplus occurred in FY99 and again in FY00. But it only totaled about 90 billion and it was gone. SOURCE: Table 1.1—SUMMARY OF RECEIPTS, OUTLAYS, AND SURPLUSES OR DEFICITS (–): 1789–2015 of from the OMB’s THE BUDGET FOR FISCAL YEAR 2011, HISTORICAL TABLES.

    Unified On-budget Off-Budget
    FY98 + 69,270 – 29,925 + 99,195
    FY99 + 125,610 + 1,920 + 123,690
    FY00 + 236,241 + 86,422 + 149,819
    FY01 + 128,236 – 32,445 + 160,681
    FY02 –157,758 – 317,417 + 159,659

    If one only looks at annual debt, it’s hard to see where there was EVER a surplus. But if one looks at monthly debt numbers one can see where the debt was going down. And it’s not as if all debt comes due on some regular schedule.

    As for the projected surpluses… the CBO or OMB can only project into the future using current conditions. They made the Clinton surpluses look larger than they were because the 10 year boom could not go on forever. And they make the projected Obama deficits larger than they are because we’re not always going to be in the Bush recession.

    As for the Clinton surpluses… he gets some of the credit, but we have to remember that the big hole in the budget was from the Reagan tax cuts. It took nearly 20 YEARS to dig ourselves out of that hole… with a lot of Reagan and Bush 1 tax hikes… the Clinton tax hike, PLUS that record boom. All that work to prepare the budget for the time when we had to start paying back those Social Security IOUs… and the FIRST thing Bush does is push through round after round of irresponsible tax cuts before he pays ANY of the debt down.

  • ulTRAX

    d’Arcy wrote Caller “Jim” repeated that shibboleth about the so-called Clinton surpluses. I still haven’t figured out what kind of smoke and mirrors they used to claim surpluses in years they ran up the debt.

    Yup, you’re clearly confused between the different kinds of surpluses.

    We CAN have an annual BUDGET surplus while still being in debt. It’s only a snapshot of that ONE year’s finances.

    As we got closer to that annual BUDGET surplus, there was still a shrinking annual budget deficit. All those deficits still added up to create more debt. Once we got to a true ON-BUDGET surplus we could start paying down debt. But as I said… the UNIFIED budget surplus may have seemed large… first column in the post above… but the actual ON-BUDGET surplus only amounted to about $90 spread over two years. Then it was gone.

  • Kate Faulkner

    Chrystia Freeman made an observation that it was amazing to find out (due to the Iceland volcano) that we humans are still controlled by nature!!

    Amazingly, Tom did not react to the absolute stupidity of this statement.

    Perhaps there is a broad belief that people are not controlled by nature. If so, that would explain why we have such a hard time with needed legislation and practices to protect the environment. If we think that planetary health is only of personal interest to a few enviros and unimportant to everybody else, why worry if we alter ecological function?

    I am suggesting this question as a future discussion topic. I’ll bet there are people out there who will argue that humans have transcended nature.

  • Martin Field

    It’s a have-nots solution to everything, raise taxes on the rich to solve the deficit problem. One-note nancies basically. Never any discussion of cutting spending in any serious way. I for one think we should choke this beastly bureaucracy we’ve created. It’s gone on far too long on a diet of whatever it wanted as long as it always grew. So here’s my proposal for starters: cut spending 10% across the board, cut Medicare by 15% and defense by 20%. Hold these flat for three years and cut by 5% again.

    Again, the one-notes will say increase taxes but then what they mean is increase everyone’s by my own.

  • Martin Field

    The only thing Clinton proved, when it came to money, was that a bubble is a beautiful thing. Luckily Alan Greenspan came to his rescue when it popped by creating an even bigger one. It would be a major distortion to conclude anything else.

    He also proved greasy old guys love the thongs.

  • ulTRAX

    Martin Field wrote: Again, the one-notes will say increase taxes but then what they mean is increase everyone’s by my own.

    Who’s singing just one note? It’s certainly not I. That you are oblivious to your own hypocrisy comes as no surprise. It’s people like you on the Right who see only one variable, spending, in a two variable problem. I fully understand that our budget mess is caused by a combination of over spending AND low revenues. I’m on record here saying it was a mistake to take so many people off income tax rolls, and it was also a BIGGER mistake to give the rich massive tax cuts when we were in debt. I, for one, am sick of seeing interest on the debt which buys us nothing, be one of the biggest budget items… $451 BILLION in FY08.

    And why not! When the Right devised a new strategy some 30 years ago to sabotage the Treasury with irresponsible tax cuts, they knew it was a policy they could never be honest about. They kept the language of fiscal conservatism but lies and distortions became mainstream. They invented a Reagan revenue booms with smoke and mirrors even counting revenues from some massive Reagan tax hikes in 82 and 83 as “proof” of a revenue feedback from the 1981 ERTA tax cuts. When debt rose under Reagan they blamed the Democrats for spending the imaginary windfall.

    The Right made tax cuts seem like such a panacea to every problem that no rational person could disagree. It didn’t matter how much debt there was… they’d focus on the deficit. So if we had a annual budget surplus that was “proof’ we were over taxed… ever if we were $5.6 TRILLION in debt in 2000. All budget problem were SPENDING problems, they told the simpleminded… sweeping under the rug their own irresponsible tax cuts which WERE DESIGNED TO RAISE DEBT!

    That this insanity was not discredited by the public 25 years ago is a tribute to our gullibility. These Orwellian Rightists gave rise to what I call the Free Lunch Right. And if all you ever listen to is Right wing bullsh*t, then no doubt you’ve bought into this psychotic world view.

    Maybe it’s time you woke up… and smelled the stench.

    Now, since 1981, we’ve pissed away $11.5 Trillion on ourselves that WE REFUSE TO PAY FOR. And Free Lunchers like yourself who have enjoyed living on the government’s credit card only further buy into the Right’s nonsense by saying the revenue side of the equation is still off the table… even though, as I’ve demonstrated here that revenue IS a problem. In the past TEN YEARS there’s been NO growth in income tax revenues (constant dollars) since 2000… not even for population growth.

    But no… to you NONE of it matters. And so say you get to a budget surplus through spending cuts alone. How YOUR intend to stop the Tax Cut Psychos on the Right from AGAIN claiming, as they did in 2000, that a budget surplus “proves” we’re “over taxed”?

    At SOME point you’re going to have to confront the dishonesty, and moral bankruptcy on the Right.

    But I won’t hold my breath.

  • Victor Miller

    Obama plays 32nd round during presidency; Bush played 24 over span of 8 years…

    REMEMBER DURING THE BUSH YEARS WHEN THE DRIVEBY MEDIA AND ONPOINT MADE A HUGE STORY OUT OF BUSH PLAYING GOLF? OBAMA HAS PLAYED 32 ROUNDS OF GOLF SINCE TAKING OFFICE IN 2009. BUSH PLAYED A TOTAL OF 24 ROUNDS IN 8 YEARS. YET THE MSM MENTIONS NOTHING ABOUT OBAMA AND HIS PLAYING GOLF. THE DOUBLE STANDARD AND THE BIAS AND PREJUDICE, CORRUPTION AND DISHONESTY AMONG THE MEDIA ELITES IS ALIVE AND WELL. EVERY DAY REVEALS MORE AND MORE HOW THE INDEPENDENT MEDIA DIED IN THE YEAR 2008. REMEMBER HOW UPSET JACK BEATTY WAS ABOUT BUSH PLAYING GOLF?

  • Gary Gleason

    Wacky Media: NPR and CNN worry that Global Warming may have caused Iceland’s Volcano!

    NPR: ‘We do wonder whether there’s human involvement in all of these eruptions, earthquakes, storms’

    *****************************************************

    ANY WONDER WHY MANY THINK THAT THE WARMING ALARMISTS ARE NUTS?

  • ulTRAX

    Martin Field wrote: The only thing Clinton proved, when it came to money, was that a bubble is a beautiful thing. Luckily Alan Greenspan came to his rescue when it popped by creating an even bigger one. It would be a major distortion to conclude anything else.

    True Greenspan foolishly held unregulated markets could regulate themselves and very well may have engineered the housing bubble. Bubbles are an easy, but risky, way to stimulate the economy. I’d prefer we negate those free trade deals, reindustrialize the economy, and have heavy penalities against speculation.

    But your notion that Clinton’s 1993 plan to cut spending and raise taxes accomplished NOTHING, is the real distortion here. You remember that plan… the one that every GOP Senator voted against and Gore had to break the tie.

    But then those on the Right can NEVER admit that tax hikes can be a positive thing… because it disproves their central belief that only tax CUTS are beneficial… ever if they only raise debt. Ever since the 90′s, the evidence be damned, the Right HAD been desperate to discredit Clinton to keep their big lie alive. I see you bought into it.

  • Impeach Obama

    Victor Miller, Jack Beatty is a mindless Obamaton. His “news” analysis are strictly for entertainment purposes only.

  • ulTRAX

    I’m such a sloppy self-editor… my last paragraph should have read:

    But then those on the Right can NEVER admit that tax hikes can be a positive thing… because it disproves their central belief that only tax CUTS are beneficial… ever if they only raise debt. Ever since the 90’s, the evidence be damned, the Right HAD to discredit Clinton to keep their big lie alive. I see you bought into it.

  • justanother

    ****NPR: ‘We do wonder whether there’s human involvement in all of these eruptions, earthquakes, storms’****

    First of all, do you think global warming is real or not. If not, everything links to global warming might sound all crazy to you. I’ll have to listen to the science behind the speculation before I dismiss or accept.

    I wonder how much true science is behind the conspiracy that Space Station and HAARP can cause man made earthquakes, tsunami, and volcanic eruptions? It sounds very far fetched, but who knows?

  • twenty-niner

    “But then those on the Right can NEVER admit that tax hikes can be a positive thing.”

    First off, I’m of neither the right nor the left, but I will respond to this. I agree that higher taxes over the last 30 years would’ve left us with significantly lower debt, but in those 30 years, the debt market has yet to punish the US for its deficits. On the contrary, interest on the 10-year note has steadily declined from a high of 16% in 1981 to its current rate of 3.8%, marking a 76% decline in long-term borrowing costs! In fact, the bond market seems to have rewarded us for our profligate spending, allowing us to roll over previous debt and issue new debt at ever lower rates.

    Deficits really come into play when they start growing faster than GDP (which is happening now) which in turn drives up borrowing rates and curbs the ability to roll over previous debt. When this happens, if you don’t bring the deficits down fast enough, or grow GDP fast enough (which is hard for a mature economy to do, especially with a healthy case of outsourcing fever) you wind up in a negative feedback loop, and you eventually default.

    But during the last thirty years, increasing deficits have never caused any immediate pain that would have translated into political pressure to raise taxes and/or cut spending, in any meaningful way. As long as inflation was under control and the economy was seeing productivity gains, the country could almost borrow at will. Further, because the dollar has enjoyed reserve status, and countries need to buy dollars to trade things like oil, there’s been a healthy market for dollar-denominated assets such as T-bills.

    Now, I do believe that the prognosis for having accumulated all of this debt is not good. But that has been the political problem with deficit spending. As is the case with the US, the negative effects might not be seen for decades. In fact, even now, as the situation becomes precarious, the best you hear from Fed governors and politicians is “at some point, in the near future, we need to get a handle on this” – more nebulous mush.

    The other problem is, once insolvency is perceived, debt markets tend to react very quickly. The CDS market is the canary in the coal mine, and spreads started blowing out on Greece weeks before you saw anything in the news about it. France seems to be in the cross hairs now, because of its exposure to PIIG debt. Japan is also on the CDS radar screen. And bear in mind that these aren’t little banana republics that we’re talking about, which is ominous for the US.

  • Hyatt Bloom

    Poll: Nearly 80% of Americans Don’t Trust Washington Under Obama
    In the wake of the enactment of the largest piece of social legislation in 50 years, distrust in the federal government under President Barack Obama is near an all-time high. Nearly 80 percent of Americans say they can’t trust Washington and they have little faith that the massive federal bureaucracy can solve the nation’s ills, according to a survey from the Pew Research Center.

    AND THE HITS JUST KEEP ON COMING.

  • Rob L.

    I like listening to Jack Beatty. He gives a good perspective of the prescriptions a trust fund kid living in a small white town in Vermont would give to the rest of the country.

  • ulTRAX

    Hyatt Bloom wrote Nearly 80 percent of Americans say they can’t trust Washington and they have little faith that the massive federal bureaucracy can solve the nation’s ills, according to a survey from the Pew Research Center.

    And when the Red Sox are losing they are bums. When they win they’re heroes. But over time just who are the Red Sox when there’s so much player and coaching turnover?

    Any trust generic questions about government are meaningless without looking into who’s running it at the time. And there’s a double standard. Private sector failures are usually written off as the wisdom of the market… while government failures live on forever… especially if one major party, the GOP, refuses to take any responsibility for its incompetence, seems determined to destroy government’s image and vilify any president of the opposing party. They know that in our dysfunctional two party system that the disaffected have nowhere else to go but to them.

  • Micale Jones

    STATE DEPT. DECLARES: ‘Global warming unequivocal and primarily human-induced’…

    You may wonder how the U.S. State Department reaches this conclusion. It is easy. Just ignore the science and fact based evidence that reaches the opposite conclusion.

  • Bryan Williams

    WILL OBAMA RETURN $994,795 IN GOLDMAN SACHS CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS?

    Democrats good.
    Republicans bad.
    Liberals good.
    Conservatives bad.
    Democrats are for the poor.
    Republicans are for rich.

    The most simple minded are the libs and the dems, both of whom always lie.

  • Monty Provost

    We are told by Onpoint, Jack Beatty, Tom Ashbrook, the libs, and the dems that the tea party protestors are all racists because there are no black people at their rallies.

    Over the years I have watched the abortion protests and have seen very few if any black men or black women at these protests. The abortion supporters are over welmingly white women. Using the same logic and reasoning of the dems and the libs, I must conclude that abortion protestors are all racists.

    Tom and Jack are such brilliant logicians.

  • Michael

    “Over the years I have watched the abortion protests and have seen very few if any black men or black women at these protests. The abortion supporters are over overwhelmingly white women. Using the same logic and reasoning of the dems and the libs, I must conclude that abortion protesters are all racists. ”

    yea those dam abortion rallies carrying signs of black women as witch doctors with bones in there nose, signs with the N-Word, Don’t forget the Kenyan Muslim Signs those pesky pro-choice folks were carrying. Man your smart, dont forget the sounding like a mexican to to mock Latino’s at one of the abortion rallies(oh wait none of the above happen there) opps it was all at tea party rallies.

    Try another :)the more you try to justify underlining racism, the more you look like a fool, of course many can see this just going to the tea party rallies and listening to them speak or go to the freedom works website they have some great posters.

    http://teaparty.freedomworks.org/photo/wakeupamericanowinfo-60?context=latest

    Leader of Freedom Works
    http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/02/tea_party_leader_on_obama_our_half_white_racist_pr.php?ref=mblt

  • henry adams

    THE IRON HEEL OF THE LEFT

    IN THE PAST FEW DAYS, THE LEFT HAS LASHED OUT AGAINST CONSERVATIVES IN A WAY THAT SHOWS THEY ARE ABOUT TO CRACK DOWN ON ALL DISSENT IN THIS COUNTRY. LAST WEEK, BILL CLINTON CLAIMED SAID THAT THOSE ON THE RIGHT SHOULD TONE DOWN THEIR RHETORIC. A HACK WRITER NAMED JOE KLEIN GOT ON NBC AND SAID THAT REMARKS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE BY SARAH PALIN AND OTHER CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATORS CONSTITUTE SEDITION.

    THE LEFT HAS BEEN GETTING BOLDER AND BOLDER. FIRST THEY PUT FORWARD THE IDEA OF REVIVING THE UNFAIRNESS DOCTRINE, WHICH WOULD DESTROY CONSERVATIVE TALK RADIO. THEN THEY CLAIMED THAT TOO MUCH “HATE” WAS COMING FROM THE TEA PARTIES AND THE RIGHT. AND NOW THEY’RE PUTTING IT IN TERMS OF ACTUAL SEDITION. THEY ARE TRYING TO ESTABLISH A LEGAL BASIS FOR SHUTTING UP THOSE THAT THEY DISAGREE WITH.

    THE IRON HEEL OF THE LEFT IS COMING DOWN QUICKLY. IT IS ONLY A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE OBAMA USES SOME EXTRA-CONSTITUTIONAL MEANS OF SILENCING HIS OPPONENTS. IT MAY COME AS AN EXECUTIVE ORDER. IT MAY COME AS A BILL FORCED THROUGH THE CONGRESS BY RECONCILIATION. OR IT MAY BE SOMETHING ELSE. BUT BE ASSURED THAT IT WILL COME. AND WHEN IT DOES, DON’T COUNT ON THE WEAK-KNEED REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS TO PROTECT YOU. THEY SEE WHICH WAY THE WIND IS BLOWING, AND THEY’RE GOING ALONG TO GET ALONG. ONLY ACTION BY THE PEOPLE THEMSELVES CAN STOP THIS NOW. MAYBE THE TEA PARTIERS, MAYBE SOMEONE ELSE. BUT IF ACTION IS NOT TAKEN SOON, THE IRON HEEL OF THE LEFT WILL HAVE CRUSHED FREE SPEECH IN AMERICA.

  • kathy johansen

    Two lies from the left:

    1. Man causes world wide global warming.
    2. Man causes world wide climate change.

    Question:

    How come man cannot control a single volcano in Iceland?

  • jeffe

    gee henry could you please stop using all caps, we here on the left demand that you stop. If you don’t our iron fist will be coming down on you. We know where you live, and will be dropping by with our iron fist to make sure you turn off the all caps on your keyboard. (note this is satirical) We will be driving Lada’s or Subaru’s…

    Henry your comments are a tad paranoid, don’t you think.

  • Kristin Fowler

    Barbara Boxer’s re-election campaign is in trouble. The first of many libs and dems who will not be returning to Congress. Oh well.

  • Mike Large

    Did you hear Barbara Boxer asking her supporters to get as excited as the tea party protestors? I thought that the tea party protestors were racists, homophobes, thugs, etc.

    Remember when Senator Obama voted against reforming Fannie and Freddie? The sub prime loans are still being made through FHA.

    Election Day: November 2010 and November 2012.

  • justanother

    *** Two lies from the left:

    1. Man causes world wide global warming.
    2. Man causes world wide climate change.

    Question:

    How come man cannot control a single volcano in Iceland? ***

    Urrrrrhh…… haven’t you figured out the rule of law here on earth, “destruction” can be done within seconds but hard to contain, “construction” takes years to build and easy to destroy. You try to use man made global warming to contradict volcano eruption, your comparison does not provoke any debate, nor it makes any sense.

  • Harold Raskin

    Former Obama WH attorney, Greg Craig, off to Goldman Sachs.

    *****************************************************
    The incest is outrageous.
    Keep supporting your leader Obama. All of these bums have nothing but contempt for the public. Wake up dems and libs. You are a bunch of suckers.

  • jeffe

    hmmm, the right wingers are out in force all of a sudden.
    Obama is not my leader. Last time I looked we still had a democracy, mind you it is becoming an oligarchy, but Obama was elected. You don’t have to like him but at least have some respect for the office of the president. I did when Bush was in office.

  • Mary Marx

    WILL OBAMA RETURN $994,795 IN GOLDMAN SACHS CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS?

    GOP DEMANDS RECORDS OF SEC CONTACTS WITH WHITE HOUSE, DNC AND NEW YORK TIMES…

    OBAMA GOT NEARLY 7X FROM GOLDMAN SACHS WHAT BUSH GOT FROM ENRON…

    Some coincidence, the SEC charges Goldman with civil allegations that to some experts appear to be difficult to prove. The charges are made public coincidental with the regulation bill that is moving through Congress.

  • Ian James

    U.N.’s Massive $732 Million Haiti Budget Goes Mostly to Its Own Staff…

    But the dems and libs love the UN, therefore the UN is a good thing. Remember, whatever the dems and libs deem to be good for society, is good for society. Dems and libs are never wromg.

  • justanother

    ****hmmm, the right wingers are out in force all of a sudden.
    Obama is not my leader. Last time I looked we still had a democracy, mind you it is becoming an oligarchy, but Obama was elected. You don’t have to like him but at least have some respect for the office of the president. I did when Bush was in office.****

    While people don’t agree with Bush basing on his performance and policies, we don’t feel the need to label or call him names, but for some reason, some people go all out to demonize Obama basing on the mess he inherited before he had a chance to perform. It is so obvious those people are highly biased, or simply a retaliation from the speech on Obama’s campaign trail describing people who clinging to their guns.

  • Janet

    I have to agree with justanother. People should give obama more time to “remake American” and “return it to it’s rightful owners”…as determined by obama.

  • ulTRAX

    This is a brain on paranoia!

    IN THE PAST FEW DAYS, THE LEFT HAS LASHED OUT AGAINST CONSERVATIVES IN A WAY THAT SHOWS THEY ARE ABOUT TO CRACK DOWN ON ALL DISSENT IN THIS COUNTRY. :roll:

    Which reminds me of a point I made in an earlier post probably to another forum here. The Right has a vested interest in the irrationality of its base. When they can’t make a valid case… like why after running this nation into the ground anyone should trust them again, they resort to hysterical lies about Obama to divert attention from themselves. Those raised on a Orwellian Right diet that liberalism is a mental illness or just plain evil, don’t need much prodding because they are self-inoculated from EVER trying to understand the other side. Politics becomes a religion… and just as irrational.

    You can take people out of the Dark Ages, but you can’t always take the Dark Ages out of people.

  • Janet

    There is nothing wrong with being a big spending liberal…just admit it…move on….obama admits it..well.naw…clinton did…naw…MSM?..liberal?…well…naw…why lie?…

  • Fred Smith

    “Obama’s GOLDMAN Money Draws Scrutiny…”

    “WILL HE RETURN $994,795 IN CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS?”

    “Reid dodges questions on Goldman $$$…”
    ***************************************************

    Almost 1 million dollars from the evil Wall Street firm. “Obscene corporate profits.” Do you notice that the libs and dems never talk about obscene taxes?

    THE MOST TRANSPARENT WHITE HOUSE EVER!

  • ulTRAX

    Hoping to be taken seriously, Fred Smith wrote…

    Do you notice that the libs and dems never talk about obscene taxes?

    Pray tell Fred, how can taxes be “obscene” when over the last 30 years We The People have NOT paid sufficient taxes to cover the $11.6 TRILLION we spent on ourselves?

    So you don’t have ANYTHING to say about living off the GOP credit card… but as soon as a Democrat says we need to raise taxes to cover the deficit and start paying down debt then THAT’S obscene?

    Thanks for a demonstration of those I call the spoiled rotten Free Lunch Right.

  • William Smith

    Radical Muslim threatens SOUTH PARK creators with death!…

    ANY WONDER WHY THE LEFT AND THE LIBS AND THE DEMS NEVER CRITICIZE THE MUSLIM EXTREMISTS?

  • Howard Clay

    Oklahoma to sue over Obamacare
    ‘The high taxes required in the law will be a burden that we cannot afford’

    Uh oh! Not so fast libs. Not so fast. Some of us pay very high taxes. Funny how libs love to spend other people’s money.

  • Pete Cris

    REMEMBER, NO EXHALING, LIBS.

    On the issue of carbon dioxide, the book points out that nature needs carbon dioxide and generates it through multiple natural processes to ensure its availability.

    “Decomposing vegetation, the carcasses of dead animals, forest fires, smoldering peat bogs, volcanoes, plowed soil, weathering rocks, human utilization of fossil fuels, and even termites and crustacean shells – all exude carbon dioxide beneficial to the plant kingdom,” he writes. “And the more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, the more content the plants become – just ask anyone who has worked in a greenhouse.

    “In fact, that is a portion of the carbon dioxide debate no one bothers to address – the plant kingdom would abound if carbon dioxide levels were to increase in the global atmosphere,” he writes.

  • http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/ ulTRAX

    William Smith wrote “ANY WONDER WHY THE LEFT AND THE LIBS AND THE DEMS NEVER CRITICIZE THE MUSLIM EXTREMISTS?”

    Who the hell you talking about Billy? I’m certainly a Leftist and I think it’s clear that ALL irrationality that implicitly or explicitly claims infallibility or a monopoly of virtue is dangerous… regardless if it’s based on religion, nationalism, race etc. When humans sabotage their own intellects, it’s only an accident that they are NOT violent.

    I suspect behind your comment is the intellectually vacuous premise because radical Islam is dangerous, they can’t possibly have ANY valid grievances about the US. We remain the eternal innocents… ever-noble, ever-misunderstood… who never operate in our self-interests when we install dictatorships or invade nations that never attacked us.

    That ALSO a claim to infallibility and to a monopoly on virtue. Such delusions may be comforting, but they are equally dangerous because they blinds us to our role in the dynamic.

    If we here in the educated US can’t deal with our own delusions of infallibility, how can we expect uneducated Islamic radicals to deal with theirs?

    What makes a True Believer? Here are some thoughts:
    http://reinventing-america.blogspot.com/2006/05/road-hell-is-paved-with-true-believers.html

  • ulTRAX

    Pete Cris wrote: REMEMBER, NO EXHALING, LIBS.

    On the issue of carbon dioxide, the book points out that nature needs carbon dioxide and generates it through multiple natural processes to ensure its availability.

    What’s your point? That because CO2 is useful, having MORE of it must also beneficial? That’s the disingenuous argument the coal industry use to make.

    Oxygen is undoubtedly also essential to all but anaerobic life. But does that automatically mean more oxygen in the atmosphere would be MORE beneficial? Hardly… above 50% can cause lung damage.

  • ulTRAX

    Oblivious to the hypocrisy in his own statement Howard Clay wrote: Uh oh! Not so fast libs. Not so fast. Some of us pay very high taxes. Funny how libs love to spend other people’s money.

    Gee… Reagan raised the debt almost $2 Trillion dollars and Bush2 almost $5 trillion. Those two GOP presidents alone are responsible for more that HALF the existing debt… and what is debt but spending OUR CHILDREN’S MONEY!

    Like some other Free Lunch Right winger here… you have NOTHING to say living off the GOP credit card. Since 1981 we pissed away some $11.6 trillion on ourselves that we have NOT paid for… largely because of tax cuts for the rich… unfunded wars, interest on the debt etc.

    So how can taxes be so high when there’s be NO GROWTH (constant dollars) in personal income tax receipts in TEN YEARS and Bush spent some $5 TRILLION for which we were not even taxed!!!

    But damn, when some Democrat wants to pay that debt down you scream bloody murder.

    Grow up.

    SOURCE: http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

    Bush debt:
    10,626,877,048,913.08 (01-19-2001)
    5,727,776,738,304.64 – (01-20-2009)
    ————————–
    4,899,100,310,608.44 = BUSH2 DEBT

  • Laura Jackson

    “Since 2007, global temperatures are engaged in a significant downward spiral, with government data illustrating a 1°F (.65°C) drop in temperature between 2007 and 2008 alone,” he reports.

    He reports on e-mails that were hacked from the Climatic Research Unit at the University of East Anglia, which contain references to “hiding” information.

    “The Climatic Research Unit had been regarded by many as one of the most credible atmospheric institutions in the world, but with the revelation of the e-mail exchanges, their supposed credibility was reduced to junk science,” Sussman writes.

    “The e-mails reveal that the world’s leading climate scientists were working together to block Freedom of Information requests to review their data, marginalize dissenting scientists, manipulate the peer-review process, and obscure, massage or delete inconvenient temperature readings. One certainly wonders, why? Especially since Al Gore has assured the world that ‘the science is settled.’”

  • ulTRAX

    @ Pete Cris and Laura Jackson… it’s really just good forum etiquette give credit to books/authors you’re quoting and to CITE YOUR SOURCES so we can judge their objectivity.

    But then… your source might be a Brain Sussman, a TV weatherman with a radical right ideological agenda, funded by radical rightists at WorldNetDaily. From the intro http://superstore.wnd.com/store/item.asp?DEPARTMENT_ID=6&SUBDEPARTMENT_ID=20&ITEM_ID=3672

    By tracing the origins of the current climate scare, Sussman guides the reader from the diabolical minds of Marx and Engles in the 1800s, to the global governance machinations of the United Nations today. Climategate is a call to action, warning Americans that their future is being undermined by a phony pseudo-science aimed at altering every aspect of life in the United States and the world.

    Yup… a book taylor written for the Tea Party that blames everything on Marxists!!! Gee… then that makes all those noble capitalists who profit from fossil fuels VICTIMS!!!!

  • sara smithers

    Ever wonder who pays Federal income taxes?

    the top 1% of income earners pay over 40% of Federal income taxes (FIT)
    the top 5% of income earners pay over 60% of FIT
    the top 10% of income earners pay over 71% of FIT
    the top 25% of income earners pay over 86% of FIT
    the top 50% of income earners pay over 97% of FIT

    the bottom 50% of income earners pay 2.89% of FIT

  • ulTRAX

    Sara Smithers wrote: Ever wonder who pays Federal income taxes?
    the top 1% of income earners pay over 40% of Federal income taxes

    So what? What does it mean when we also know since 1981 when Reagan sabotaged the revenues of the US with irresponsible tax cuts… that we’ve pissed away some $11.5 TRILLION more than we taxed ourselves. So why isn’t the current rate a bargain for the rich… especially since 2000 personal income taxes revenues in constant dollars FELL?

    The idea that the rich are getting ripped off is an ILLUSION. Millions were taken off the rolls at the bottom because the GOP took them off to pass tax cuts for the wealthy. Just because the wealthy pay more of a shrinking income tax pie is NOT the same as actually paying more money… and 10 years of falling income tax revenues prove that.

    Wherever you’re getting your information is trying to IMPLY something that’s just not reflected in reality. Their goal? That you’ll have sympathy for the poor rich folks and oppose the sunsetting of the Bush tax cuts.

  • ulTRAX

    Sara… here’s a better snapshot of what’s really going on with ALL federal taxes.

    Go to:
    http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=5746&type=0&sequence=1

    then:

    Table 2.
    Effective Federal Tax Rates and Shares Under Current Tax Law, Based on 2001 Incomes, by Income Category, 2001 to 2014

    Gee… the WHOLE picture looks a lot different that that narrow slice of data you posted.

  • ulTRAX

    A follow up to my last post… if one looks at

    Table 2.
    Effective Federal Tax Rates and Shares Under Current Tax Law, Based on 2001 Incomes, by Income Category, 2001 to 2014

    Then scrolls down to “Share of Total Federal Tax Liabilities”

    We see that while in 2001 the Highest Quintile pays $65.3% of federal liabilities… it drops to 63.5% in 2004.

    What’s interesting here is that one might expect ALL quintiles to drop under the Bush tax cuts. But they don’t. The Second, Third, and Forth Quintiles all pay a HIGHER proportion of federal liabilities.

    But if one just looks at the income tax numbers… the ones the Right is harping about, one would miss this shift of the tax burden DOWNWARD. Of course it’s not always this easy to make sense of the numbers. For instance in the 80′s… and presumably in the Bush2 years, the income tax on the rich may also have gone up because they cornered more national INCOME… even though they paid a lower rate.

    But hell, to you REALLY believe Fox, Rush, or Beck want to learn how taxes work? Ha! They want to hand you highly select data so you DON’T understand how taxes work… hoping that you’ll end up supporting policies that benefit THEM… even if they are at YOUR expense.

  • ulTRAX

    Goofed again… last paragraph should read:

    But hell, do you REALLY believe Fox, Rush, or Beck want you to learn how taxes work? Ha! They want to hand you highly select data so you DON’T understand how taxes work… hoping that you’ll end up supporting policies that benefit THEM… even if they are at YOUR expense.

  • justanother

    I found it very odd that a lot of lower income people support rich people’s ideology, hoping someday they’ll be rich, like Joe the plumber worries about his tax before he reaches any point to be worried. Ironically it’s the same people live on those “pitiful” tax cut. If you have to depend on a tax cut to save or buy something, then you probably should use tax cut to hire a “financial adviser” to manage your money better, so you won’t get so excited about a “pitiful” tax cut.

    I’m not rich, far from it, but I “save”, try not to overspend, so I won’t ever expect from a tax cut.

    People believing pulling yourself up by your boot strap, and not believing helping others needed, well, show me see how you pull yourself up without getting excited by a tax cut. You’d better believe what comes around, goes around, there’s no “real” free lunch, especially in American. They give a little milk and honey, now you are a lap dog?

  • http://www.tokyofashionguide.com/ Anthony

    “Since 2007, global temperatures are engaged in a significant downward spiral, with government data illustrating a 1°F (.65°C) drop in temperature between 2007 and 2008 alone,” he reports.

    He reports on e-mails that were hacked from the Climatic Research Unit at the University of East Anglia, which contain references to “hiding” information.

    “The Climatic Research Unit had been regarded by many as one of the most credible atmospheric institutions in the world, but with the revelation of the e-mail exchanges, their supposed credibility was reduced to junk science,” Sussman writes.

    “The e-mails reveal that the world’s leading climate scientists were working together to block Freedom of Information requests to review their data, marginalize dissenting scientists, manipulate the peer-review process, and obscure, massage or delete inconvenient temperature readings. One certainly wonders, why? Especially since Al Gore has assured the world that ‘the science is settled.’”

  • http://www.jonathancody.com/ Julie

    Oblivious to the hypocrisy in his own statement Howard Clay wrote: Uh oh! Not so fast libs. Not so fast. Some of us pay very high taxes. Funny how libs love to spend other people’s money.

    Gee… Reagan raised the debt almost $2 Trillion dollars and Bush2 almost $5 trillion. Those two GOP presidents alone are responsible for more that HALF the existing debt… and what is debt but spending OUR CHILDREN’S MONEY!

    Like some other Free Lunch Right winger here… you have NOTHING to say living off the GOP credit card. Since 1981 we pissed away some $11.6 trillion on ourselves that we have NOT paid for… largely because of tax cuts for the rich… unfunded wars, interest on the debt etc.

    So how can taxes be so high when there’s be NO GROWTH (constant dollars) in personal income tax receipts in TEN YEARS and Bush spent some $5 TRILLION for which we were not even taxed!!!

    But damn, when some Democrat wants to pay that debt down you scream bloody murder.

    Grow up.

    SOURCE: http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

    Bush debt:
    10,626,877,048,913.08 (01-19-2001)
    5,727,776,738,304.64 – (01-20-2009)
    ————————–
    4,899,100,310,608.44 = BUSH2 DEBT

  • http://www.weirdeurope.com/ Joseph

    Sara… here’s a better snapshot of what’s really going on with ALL federal taxes.

    Go to:
    http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=5746&type=0&sequence=1

    then:

    Table 2.
    Effective Federal Tax Rates and Shares Under Current Tax Law, Based on 2001 Incomes, by Income Category, 2001 to 2014

    Gee… the WHOLE picture looks a lot different that that narrow slice of data you posted.

ONPOINT
TODAY
Apr 23, 2014
In this Thursday, Dec. 20, 2012, file photo, Chet Kanojia, founder and CEO of Aereo, Inc., shows a tablet displaying his company's technology, in New York. Aereo is one of several startups created to deliver traditional media over the Internet without licensing agreements. (AP)

The Supreme Court looks at Aereo, the little startup that could cut your cable cord and up-end TV as we’ve known it. We look at the battle. Plus: a state ban on affirmative action in college admissions is upheld. We’ll examine the implications.

Apr 23, 2014
Attendees of the 2013 Argentina International Coaching Federation meet for networking and coaching training. (ICF)

The booming business of life coaches. Everybody seems to have one these days. Therapists are feeling the pinch. We look at the life coach craze.

RECENT
SHOWS
Apr 22, 2014
This undated handout photo, taken in 2001, provided by the Museum of the Rockies shows a bronze cast of the Tyrannosaurus rex skeleton known as the Wankel T.rex, in front of the Museum of the Rockies at Montana State University in Bozeman, Mont. (AP)

As a new Tyrannosaurus Rex arrives at the Smithsonian, we’ll look at its home – pre-historic Montana – and the age when dinosaurs ruled the Earth.

 
Apr 22, 2014
Security forces inspect the site of a suicide attack in the town of Suwayrah, 25 miles (40 kilometers) south of Baghdad, Iraq, Monday, April 21, 2014. Suicide bombings and other attacks across Iraq killed and wounded dozens on Monday, officials said, the latest in an uptick in violence as the country counts down to crucial parliament elections later this month. (AP)

We look at Iraq now, two years after Americans boots marched out. New elections next week, and the country on the verge of all-out civil war.

On Point Blog
On Point Blog
The Week In Seven Soundbites: April 18, 2014
Friday, Apr 18, 2014

Holy week with an unholy shooter. South Koreans scramble to save hundreds. Putin plays to the crowd in questioning. Seven days gave us seven sounds.

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Our Week In The Web: April 18, 2014
Friday, Apr 18, 2014

Space moon oceans, Gabriel García Márquez and the problems with depressing weeks in the news. Also: important / unnecessary infographics that help explain everyone’s favorite 1980′s power ballad.

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Some Tools And Tricks For College Financial Aid
Thursday, Apr 17, 2014

Some helpful links and tools for navigating FAFSA and other college financial aid tools.

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