Economic hard times generally turns up the volume on hate speech: gotta blame someone for our problems.

At the same time that civility is breaking down our ability to capture everything and put it online or broadcast it within minutes of it happening is getting easier.

The social internet (gossip blogs, twitter, facebook and others) reward juicy tidbits by boosting the popularity of those who post them and the civility of TV and radio (PBS and NPR aside) has gone from bad to worse.

People and groups who used to be marginal can now find each other via the social internet, form bigger, louder groups and attempt to talk with a single voice.

The upside is that watching and listening to some of these voices, like folks at the recent DC tea party undermines their credibility for most of us who know better.

I want to comment on Rep. Wilson. I think this is blown way out of proportion. Have you ever seen British Parliament? That’s worked for a few hundred years. When the Founding Fathers were trying to iron out what our country would look like, do you think they were so “civil”? When President Bush (43) spoke to Congress, I’ve heard loud raucous “boos”. Wilson was caught up in the moment. It’s a heated debate. Let is be heated. So what?

Wilson called Strom Thurmond’s black daughter a hoax and favored flying the Confederate flag over the SC capitol. Pretty tough to deny racism when he then calls the first black president a liar during a joint session of Congress. To paraphrase the late Jody Powell, being called a liar by Joe Wilson is like being called ugly by a frog.

When President Bush (43) spoke to Congress, I’ve heard loud raucous “boos”

Yes, and the boos were a response to Bush’s ideas, not a personal attack on his character. I don’t have a problem with grumblings over what a president says in a joint session, but what Wilson did was to attack the president’s character, which was beyond the pale in such circumstances. And don’t kid yourself that it’s not about race.

We’ve lost the ability to disagree with each other without demonizing the individual. This limits our chances of reaching compromise and renders every argument a “fight to the death.” If we started from the point of view that the “loyal opposition” has motives at least as lofty as our own, we might be able to discuss rather than rant. But in today’s contentious world of talk radio and “no spin zones,” I don’t fancy our chances.

“We’ve lost the ability to disagree with each other without demonizing the individual.”

I have been reading biographies of Alexander Hamilton and John Adams and I see that this is very much within the tradition of this population. People here are very easily scared and whipped into frenzy. “The French are coming!”, “The British are coming!”, “The Yankees are coming!”, “Ze Germans are coming!”, “The Reds are coming!”, “Our own Government is coming!”, “Healthcare is coming!” The debate from the right goes like this: “I shudder at the thought that a government beaurocrat will decide XYZ.” People are paranoid.

Can’t we all just get along?

For many people, Barack Obama is the last chance for Washington to show that they can serve the people, not just powerful corporate interests. If government by crisis continues to commit our current and future tax dollars to military contractors, Wall Street, and, now, health insurers, citizens will become increasingly unhappy and motivated to protest. Pundits, pollsters, and politicians can dismiss this anger as uncivil, extremist, or (the new favorite) racist, but they are just pouring gasoline on a rapidly growing fire.

We all would benefit from reading George Washington’s ” Rules of Civility & Decent Behavior, in Company and Conversation. ” A good example which applies to the current debate is Rule 105 : ” Be not angry at table whatever happens, and if you have reason to be so, show it not; put on a cheerful countenance especially if there be strangers, for good humor makes one dish of meat feast. “

This appears to be a decline in our society. You would not treat others that way if you have self respect. When you respect yourself….you have respect for others. Each item discussed could very well also have racial undertones.

I have always disliked Camille Paglia before today’s program. She is a complete idiot. Her points are absurd, completely absurd. She should take off those rose colored glasses.

She keeps saying people are speculating, well what the hell is she doing.

I totally agree that the trend of declining civility goes far beyond politics and is part of a much larger cultural trend. Here are some observations regarding sports. I am an extremely competitive person who has competed in various forms of athletics for most of my life (e.g. as an adult I have actually taken up competing in Ironman triathlons if that gives you a clue!!!). While I have “argued very lightly” with officials in the past, I am shocked by the continuing decline in the conduct of coaches, parents, and athletes in general. This conduct includes, but is not limited to frequent use of four letter words, etc.. In the words of former NY Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan, this is all part of our nation’s trend in “Defining Deviancy Down”

Regarding civility in politics, both parties need to turn down the harsh rhetoric. While Rep. Joe Wilson’s (R SC) “You lie” outburst during the President’s speech lacked civility and was absolutely not appropriate, Democrats are kidding themselves with commentary that this lack of civility is somehow limited to the Republican Party. Check out some of the Democratic reactions during and after President Bush’s various addresses to Congress over the preceding 8 years. Not exactly profiles in civility!!

On a related note, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid referred to Barbara Bush (the former President’s mother using a word I cannot use on this post (e.g. starts with a “B” to refer to a female) in his book. The Bush family and I are both still waiting for Senator Harry Reid’s apology. Wilson’s outburst was at least an emotional loss of control (e.g. not an excuse), but Harry Reid’s comment actually made if through Reid’s and his editor’s various reviews. Which is less civil? I am not sure!!!!

I will always refer to President Obama as the either “the President or President Obama” regardless of whether I disagree with his policies, which is far more respectful than the manner in which many Democrats I know referred to President Bush……..

I don’t think President Carter should apologize for what he feels is correct in his view!

Dear god, please do not ever have Camille Paglia on this show again. Makes me want to put an ice pick in my ears.
Any more outbursts from her and I will turn off the radio…

My husband is a memeber of our neighborhood assoc. Every month when he goes to the meetings with the residents he gets cussed out, called a racist, a devil, etc etc simply because he signs the letters sent out that tell residents to keep their properties in the order that they signed onto when they moved to the neighborhood. This is just the way things are now! Go to a highschool football game and listen to the parents yell at the coaches and refs!

Wow Tom,
These guests today seem incapable of coming to terms with the fact that these behaviors should not be accepted. Blaming the media? So, it’s the media’s fault that people are vulgar, racist, rude? Camille is rude herself, no wonder she accepts the behavior. How dare any white woman speak out and say race is not a part of this. I do not understand why rudeness was accepted then or now. Who parented these folks? Camille, you missed out on manners.

I just wanted to say whoever this woman is who is getting completely bent out of shape over the FACT that there is racism inherent in the fabric of our country and our political system is completely out of line and I hope she isn’t invited back. She is ignoring the lived reality of a growing MAJORITY of people in this country. I think it’s really UNCIVIL of her to shout down callers with whom she doesn’t agree. This is especially ironic considering the theme of this show is “Questions of Civility, and more.”

People who feel powerless in the face of our government powers that be resort to violence, physical, verbal or otherwise to lash out. We do not teach our citizens how to reject violence in favor of non violent action which in itself is mis-understood. Until we educate our citizens on how to effect change in a civil society we will struggle on all fronts.

One huge difference between the hatred spewed at Obama vs. that spewed at Bush is that these dissenters are much more likely to believe in their right to bring firearms to their protests. Sane citizens of any political persuasion are rightly alarmed.

I, too, am finding it tiring of the increasing number of claims made by supporters of Obama that it’s “racist” to disagree with him. It’s as ludicrous as saying that all blacks that disagreed with George Bush were racist.

If this is the route we’re going to take…then allcriticism of white leaders in the future by blacks MUST be considered as “racist” at its base.

I appreciate the concept Camile Paglia asserts, that there are fringe elements being represented by a lot of the outlandish comments about President Obama. However, I do think that the media coverage of these fringe elements does validate it as a perspective, which helps to break down the inhibitions that others might feel about making these kind of outlandish comments in a public forum. Given that, I think that labeling these folks as “fringe” doesn’t fully reflect the current numbers and that they’re likely to grow over time.

This is just one part of a general short-sightedness and money worship in the US today.

If you have enough money or celebrity, you can find enough people to support or pay or buy your stuff to make your bad behavior rewarding.

We are in an economic crisis because Americans tried to get something for nothing. They went for short term gains.

We hate our government because our representatives and parties are looking to score points today.

Athletes behaving badly, celebrities behaving badly, politicians behaving badly, our neighbors behaving badly (look in the comments section of any newspaper or news site – it hardly takes 4 postings before someone posts something off the wall and offensive).

Our society seems to affirm that any attention is good attention.

… and the media eats it up! What is the behavior version of “If it bleeds, it leads?”

Perhaps it is just the fringe right wing who are truculent and scream out the racist rants, but it is the mainstream Republican’s indifference to such egregious acts that speak the loudest.

In an alternative timeline where McCain / Palin hold the highest office in the land, do you think there would be claims of sexism if Americans protested the continued Iraq war?

What if Democrats had pulled their children from school during President McCain’s speech? Would there be claims that they are unpatriotic?

Tension is high. I think all representatives need to get together and just have a giant water balloon fight. Maybe then we can get back to respect and civility.

I think this conversation is very interesting and I think part of it can be explained by the “age” of this nation. I took a “western civilization course” for two years and college- we talked about the US for about 3 months. The nation is young and we are hitting Puberty and inevitably are acting like teens lashing out at our parents and not grasping the full concept of manners! All this is amplified by the fact that we are over connected with the internet and social networks, and like one of the guests commented we find groups that share the same ideas as us and follow them, we are no longer forced to be part of a grab bag group of friends with differing opinions.

So funny to hear folks parse their language. Call a spade a spade. Black folks need to step back and let white folks challenge one another on the issue of race. It’s a problem THEY have and THEY need to deal with. We must stop placing ourselves between them and the harsh reality of their insecurities about race. It’s not our job. This is why I appreciate President Carter’s remarks, because they were from the heart and from a white southerner who knows how this plays globally. It is not Black folks responsibility to heal some white people of racist inclinations. White people handle your business.

Call the President a liar and quickly thereafter raise $2 million for your campaign. It’s easy to see that, unfortunately, being uncivil pays.

There may be an element of racism, but the majority of people not just the”fringe” are unable to hold a rational conversation longer than a “tweet”. Discussions quickly deteriorate into angry, irrational events where volume trumps reason. The listeners of Public radio are a self selected group, but in my daily life I am surrounded by people with amazing poverty of thought. If I am lucky they are also inarticulate. The internet and texting does provide these “Yahoos’ with a voice.

Yes it is the end of civility and may be an indictment of our poor education and our society as a whole.

There may be an element of racism, but the majority of people not just the”fringe” are unable to hold a rational conversation longer than a “tweet”. Discussions quickly deteriorate into angry, irrational events where volume trumps reason. The listeners of Public radio are a self selected group, but in my daily life I am surrounded by people with amazing poverty of thought. If I am lucky they are also inarticulate. The internet and texting does provide these “Yahoos’ with a voice.

Yes it is the end of civility and may be an indictment of our poor education and our society as a whole.

Rob -

Here’s the poll:

http://www.pollster.com/blogs/disturbing_poll_on_beliefs_abo.php

you can’t prove racism anymore tha you can prove love. those who want to deny racism are using the argument that they are characterizing their opponents as using- they’re are over generakizing. No one is saying that all teabaggers are racist, but behavior (such as signs and phrases) would lead one to belive that there are racists present. Now, they have every right to demonstrate, but the non-racist teabaggers have the freedom to demonstrate against racist teabaggers.

Brilliant Tom: “Does democracy work with this much id in the middle of it.”

I think I’ve had enough of Peggy Noonan, Jr. (Kathleen Parker). I’m not sure what her Morning in America nostalgia contributes to the discussion.

Hi Tom;

Statesmanship and civility has been destroyed. The right has gone absolutely bezeerk by screaming over people that disagree with them, and it has translated into a common way of discourse in our country. In a country with millions unemployed and desperate, people cling to emotion and fear mongering before actually looking at the facts. Glen Beck, Ann Coulter, etc. and Fox news perpetuate this by cloaking these emotional outburst in journalism.

Well, that’s all my hearing could handle. Madam Paglia has caused me to shut you off. I was wondering if you knew how much VPR needs it’s donations? If you don’t, consider this. Nice folks do not like rancid speech, nice folks put away check books!
I hope your show does not become like so many of the others.

Maybe I need to apologize to Kathleen…I think it’s Camille Paglia who is driving me crazy…

As someone who recently moved from NJ to Kentucky (2004), I believe there is an element of racism injected into the current political debates. Before the election, I heard repeatedly that if Obama was elected “someone would shoot him.” Also, He (Obama) is the “antichrist”, He is a “Muslim”–these comments were not from “fringe” elements–but every day people that I ran into at school, the country club and elsewhere in town. I could not believe it. That said, what we are seeing also is a result of 24/7 news media and the internet. The internet affords anonymity and the ability to be able to say what ever you want to without having to justify or be responsible for your remarks. It is completely uncensored. A powerful tool, uncensored, has created the kind of atmosphere that breeds hateful, shameful behavior.

At least part of the underlying cause of our lack of civility surely seems to be an epidemic of retarded emotional development.
Bob Herbert, some months ago, in one of his op-eds, said that the USA is a profoundly immature society. he was more concise.

A significant consequence of emotional immaturity is that one’s self-restraint is weak. An emotionally mature person tends to stay cool in adversity.

=====

Let’s also realize that the Rwandan genocide (about 8,000 people killed daily) was started by wildly ranting radio commentators. In current US radio, I’ve wondered whether some extremists are inciting to assassination.

My mother used to say that if Jesus returned, we’d stone him to death.

Why is Camille screaming?

A new era of honesty? God help us all!

Camille is lukewarm…she stands for nothing and everything. The consummate apologist. “strategic failures of health care reform” huh. So we call him and his family gorillas. How on earth did this guy make through the most scrutinized primary season of the modern era and nobody find out that he was an illegal immigrant? Camille you’re an idiot.

maybe the “Questions of Civility” should be asked to your guess Camille Paglia.

wow unlike the other 2 guess she were very aggressive, rude, and nasty and to give credit to the birther moment says it all.

Oh please, this is not constructive dialogue with Camille Paglia on the show. Birthers have a point? Come on. At the risk of incivility, I must say that I find her non-stop, threadbare logic and predictably contrarian blather about as dazzling as listening to stream of consciousness from a bipolar disorder patient. It’s also a prime example of the problem on the media side. The 24-hour news cycle is jammed with talking heads willing to express any provocative view in the name of self-promotion.

It is obvious that Kathleen is a southern conservative but WHAT PLANET IS CAMILLE FROM?!?!? She has really put a lot of effort into derailling any intelligent discussion on this subject.

I cannot put my emotions into words, for one hour I have been hearing denial after denial about some disturbing social trends that are affecting our current civic culture. How many Presidents have been called a liar to his face on the Congress floor? Find out about the organizations to which Joe Wilson belong, and you will find reasons to think that the man was racially motivated. Moreover, how many elected Presidents birth circumstances have been questioned as furiously as the circumstances regarding the birth of the present one. For once, I am simply disappointed with the level of discussion that has characterized today’s show.

Camille Paglia made me turn off the show.

I was thinking that she was one step from frothing at the mouth, but when she said the “birthers” had a point, I realized that it was probably better that this was radio – I have a low tolerance for frothing… and fluff.

Puh-leeze! According to Blackistone, now we’re supposed to view the public’s outraged reaction to Serena’s repeated curses and threats directed at a diminutive lineswoman as proof of societal sexism as well as racism?!

I hope the fact that Obama called Kanye a ‘jackass’ for his incredibly rude behavior at the VMA awards show has put an end to claims that criticism of West are racist.

Joe Wilson is obviously an isiot. Does it really matter if he’s also a racist? Would it be any less offensive if a idiotic white congressperson had shouted out “You lie!” at the prez?

The U.S. Government has a huge pot of money in its possession and the ability to borrow even more. I would submit to you that gaining access to this huge resource is more lucrative than control of the entire Middle Eastern Oil reserve. The way to get access to this pot is through electing your won candidate and defeat the other guy’s. The money gets distributed by means of contracts, subsidies, Medicare payments to Big Pharma and Insurance, etc., etc. The way to elect your own candidate and defeat the other guy’s in a 50/50 population is to whip people into frenzy, scare and devide them. As is often the case (almost always, actually) the money and fear are driving the process. Conclusion: it is difficult for me to agree that there is an “honest” debate here.

By reading these comments on today’s show it is clear that Camille Paglia is getting the “no” vote. I think On Point should take heed of the reaction to her. Please, I beg you not to ask her back. She offers up nothing and she completely hijacked what could have been a very good show.

What she did show me was how rude and overbearing her act is. I feel sorry for her students.

Refreshing to hear an honest assessment on ON POINT today of the Town Hall-Tea Party behaviors. I marched in the 9-12 Rally in DC this weekend. It was peaceful and the vast majority of signs I saw were complaints about Congressional AND Obama policy — not race.

I tried to get in today to challenge several of the points Camille Paglia was propogating. First, she dismissed the concerns about racism as rhetorical flourish. But, Prof. Paglia has built a career as a best selling author precisely because she understands and utilizes rhetorical flourish. She kept dismissing out of hand the notion that we are a racist nation. No one was arguing this point that she was rejecting but it worked rhetorically for her to not significantly engage the question of race. She has obviously not listened to talk radio (Rush Limbaugh and “Barack the Magic Negro”) or watched Fox News’ Glenn Beck (Health Care reform is reparations, the President has a deep-seated hatred of white people). She also perpetuated the myth of a “liberal media” that conservatives have used to drive the debate and cower any critical analysis. Eric Alterman’s well researched work in “What Liberal Media?” is worth looking at. To make the claim as she did on your show that the overuse of crying sexism, homophobia, and racism necessarily leads to a posture of getting “beyond” these arguments is intellectually dishonest and dangerously naive.

To add to my earlier comment, I feel and can see in some of the anti-Obama protestor’s eyes a fear, dare I say a terror, that does not seem to be based in reality. And it has recently become apparent to me that it could only be racism that causes such a fear;a fear that Obama is either trying to pull a fast one or that he is just not capable of running the country.

Carter’s right. That said, did West’s outburst have to do with race? I say yes, probably. What to do about racists? Ignore them, exclude them, shun them.

I do worry, somewhat, that we are headed for more-serious trouble.

It won’t be surprising when at least one person dies as a direct consequence of the current unrest. It could be that someone gets shot at a town-hall meeting

It no longer seems inconceivable that the USA could become fascist. At least, a President Palin would probably resign after being in office for a few weeks or so.

Let’s hope that we don’t have civil war amongst our population; geographical separation would matter less than it did in the mid-1800s.

The USA has been too good a nation to discard as trash, but should it happen (odd thought), such discarding will affect the rest of the world, as our financial crisis-trigger did.

=====

As I understand it, Japan’s topography being largely mountainous, their population density is quite high in most places. Traditionally, they have been notably polite, so that life that’s so close to so many others remains harmonious.

It seems that their civility is not necessarily sincere, as we regard it, but it nevertheless does matter, a lot. The very fact that any typical Japanese person follows customary courtesy shows that they do have great regard for civility, bred partly out of real need.

In the USA, we have bit of insincere dialog to smooth the way — witness OnPoint callers who start with “How are you?”, which only wasts seconds, and is quite unlikely to be sincere. Nevertheless, it’s a brief example of what seems to be much more prevalent in Japanese society.

I wasn’t going to comment, but I think I must say “ditto” to Deryl’s remarks that we seemingly have lost the ability to disagree with one another without demonizing the one with whom we disagree. A very dangerous trend, I believe. I do also believe it is unfair to label as racist anyone on the grounds of disagreeing with President Obama’s policies. However I do not like to see any of our members of Congress slip to the level of being rude during a President’s address to a joint session of Congress. There is a lot of good to be said for being “polite” in any and every setting. And, we need to be teaching that at home, too, quite obviously! In schools, it would also be helpful. PJS

Camille Paglia’s comments about the group of people protesting the health care plan as being just people expressing their frustration is partially correct. Some people do feel frustrated because they lost an election by a large margin. They feel isolated, some in their own self-isolation. And they feel afraid

However, she puts a blind eye to several important points:

1. The meetings that she referred to were open meetings where all people, no matter what their position on the health care issue, were allowed to attend, listen and be heard. No groups were banned from participating in the meetings.

2. That said, the vast majority of the people in attendance came to hear and comment, they came to learn. This “grass roots” group clearly came for a different reason, they came simply to disrupt what would have been a good example of the democratic process. They denied the majority of those in attendance their rights.

3. It was clear from the their verbal outbursts that their initial fears were being fired by a set of lies. Looking at where they started, Palin, Beck, Limbaugh, and anonymous e-mails, conservative lies. Examples just look up sources of death panels, Canadian/British surgery age limit, etc.

I attended a “town meeting” set up by one of our National congresspeople weeks after the disruptive meetings. It was well attended by all sides. What struck me was that those who were vehemently against the health care plan were still spouting those same untruths, even after the untruths had been thoroughly proven to be completely false.

If the protesters had justifiable concerns they were overshadowed by their strange interpretation of the democratic process and by the falsehoods they were especially good at yelling.

Obama dropped the l-word first and the vast majority he was addressing with that term were whites. Does this mean that those who suggest Obama is a racist are right?

Obama is hardly the first president to be called a liar. Were they victims of racism?

By the new Joe Wilson standard, the following are all racists: Kayne, Serena, Obama, you, me.

Wow, I have to say it was really refreshing to read these comments and see how many people felt what I was feeling. I simply could not listen to Camille P. one more second and had to turn off the radio. Her manner of speaking, her certainty about EVERYTHING she says, her desire to inflame, all of this had me running to shut her up. As I said before, very bad choice of guest.

I did want to ask her one question: If racism is not part of this hatred of Obama, where does she think the insane accusations of his not being an American citizen come from? Something rational?

“By the new Joe Wilson standard, the following are all racists: Kayne, Serena, Obama, you, me.”

Perhaps you are right. But, without naming names, let’s take a quick poll who the racist is out of these two individuals:

(a) mixed racial half-black half-white Person from Illinois; or

(b) white person from S. Carolina, who voted against removing the Confederate Flag from the state house, told Thurmond’s half-black daughter that she had smeared Senator’s legacy by revealing it, even if it was true, and publically shouted at the half-black President.

You neglected to mention that the half-white person was an active, long-term member of a church that espoused disturbing racist views that he refused to refute, that he called whites objecting to his views liars, that he supported the views of a another mixed race pseudo-intellectual involved in an altercation with police when the facts supported the white, working class individual …

I was happy to see that I was not alone in turning off this morning’s show. This was the first time, and I hope the last, that I had to do this. Please do not have Camille Paglia as a guest again. There are many, many people who could contribute more insightfully and mor civilly.

Just wanted to comment on Jimmy Carter’s “racism” remark. What Wilson said was out of line, but on the other hand, “You lie, boy!” was NOT what was said, so we should not speculate. Second point, to be a racist, you have to have a deep-seated, unprovoked hate for someone’s ethnic origin or color of skin. The media does not help matters in its depiction of certain ethnic groups, however I believe that INDIVIDUALS are ultimately responsible for how they are portrayed in public. Since the headlines have been about President Obama, let’s take blacks for example: if I am on a bus or train sitting next to a black person wearing business attire who speaks english in an educated tone, I feel like ok, this is a seemingly nice person who is sitting next to me (regardless of skin color). If I am sitting next to a black person who’s pants are down to his knees (boxer shorts evident),listening to rap music which is loud and degrading toward women and then says to me “what-choo lokkin’ at, n–a”, then I would definitely feel more tense as this person appears more volatile. You see, for me, it’s more about mannerisms, behaviors and actions. People see so much of a particular set of behaviors associated with a particular group and these associations create a feeling of unrest which can be misinterpreted to mean racism. As for me personally, I could care less if you are dark, coffee-colored or polkadotted…just be respectful in public…because it’s not all about ME, ME, ME!

I wish to comment on this statement: “Jimmy Carter now says loud and plain that the coarsening of American politics right now is racism, straight up.”

It is one thing to claim that some of those opposed to the current administration’s policies are racists. It is quite another thing to suggest or insinuate that all or most (forceful) expressions of opposition to the current administration’s policies are clear evidence of an underlying racism. The latter is illogical and ethically objectionable. That sort of tactic is designed not to promote rational public discussion about debatable social issues but to shut it down! Let’s all try hard to avoid going down that politically dangerous and morally irresponsible road.

Peter A. Pagan Aguiar, Ph.D.
Liberal Arts Program – Philosophy
Aquinas College
Nashville, TN 37205

While I really don’t think that all the incivility and even attacks on Obama are rascist in nature, I also know that it’s easy for white people to say that nothing being said is based in rascism. In many subtle ways it has become more acceptable to be rascist in the last few years. Fox News Network provides opportunities for White males to feel sorry for themselves and feel like they are the underclass. So when an African-American man becomes president, it just fuels those beliefs. I agree with the earlier writer who put accountability on parents. Many parents let their kids get away with all levels of disrespect toward friends, parents, teachers, and other adults. When this is added to what kids, and then adults, see on TV, it’s no wonder we have lost civility between people. We have become a very arrogant nation fueled by fear and a sense of entitlement.
Thank you

Camille Paglia’s comments referencing the 1960′s are important and relavant as long as we remember that 4 John F. K. Bobby K, Marting Luthewr King Jr. and Malcolm X all were assasinated by individual who belived their positions were validated and supported by angry mobs!

1. C’mon Tiger, I’ve heard Obama’s statements both proven and disproven several times by pundits since his address. It is a matter of perspective and statistical manipulations. The point is Wilson committed a serious breach of long standing etiquette. He was rightly admonished, and richly rewarded at the same time.

2. Lista, you are so right about the “cultural immaturity” of this country. I think this also explains why we lagging behind the rest of the developed world on issues like health care.

3. Those who choose to bypass civil discourse don’t know what they are missing. It is truly enjoyable to hear the perspectives of others and share your own.

4. Radio and Cable squawkers are NOT elected officials, they are entertainers who are becoming wealthy playing on our baser emotions. Ever notice how many have books out? Paid online memberships with mugs and stickers for sale?

5. Racism, vulgarity, and general stupidity are not the domain of any particular ideology, just adherrents of these ideologies uninterested or unable to participate in civil discourse.

Paglia lost all credibility to me when she suggested that the Birther Movement has some legitimate questions. I don’t understand how any informed citizen could believe that at this point!

Although my of my political views can probably be characterized as Center/Right, Camille Paglia loses all credibility with any rational human being when she claims “there are “legitimate concerns with President Obama’s birth certificate”.

After hearing this comment, I will never listen to another word that comes out of her mouth.

Brian, thank you for posting the link to the poll above. According to this poll, 42% of Republicans claim there are no concerns about President Obama’s birth certificate, 28% say they have concerns, and 30% say they are not sure. Again, I think this goes back to civility IN BOTH PARTIES. Unfortunately, there is trend in politics to define your rival as “evil”, lacking in character, etc… and a large percentage of Americans will believe (or be “unsure”) any negative commentary about the other party. Harry Reid (e.g. who calls the President’s mother a “B”), Move On.Org (e.g. referring to General Petraeus using “Betray Us”), Al Franken, and countless others on the political center display the same lack of civility as Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck, and those on the far right. At the risk of sounding “elitist”, my preference is to too let the extremists in both parties do the name calling on the blogs and radio shows, and let the adults ranging from the Center/Right to Center/ Left actually govern the country. We can and should debate the issues vigorously (and also ideology around election time), but compromise should not be dirty word. It is called governing.

This is the glen B. that these tea baggers are following

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzKFYcHKbnk

this could be a reason why many blacks don’t like foxs news

http://bravenewfilms.org/blog/?p=572

Tom,

Please, PLEASE do not subject us to any more Camille Paglia. She is utterly insufferable.

Where was the indignation and the media hand wringing over “Civility” when Bush was (daily) being burned in effigy, compared to Hitler and Stalin, and accused of being a war criminal? My opposition to health care reform has nothing to do with race–it has to do with the fact that this country is being bankrupted by entitlement spending and I am not keen to see a new entitlement exacerbate the existing problems.

then….he DID lie….

Tom, the shrill Camille asked for evidence that the agenda or motivation of birthers, tea partiers and DC “off my back” crowd is not legitimate concern over government spending and the “trampling” of rights of the little guy. I give you the deafening silence of these folks for the last eight years as proof positive that their agenda is indeed anti-Obama and rascist and not predicated on an honest evaluation of what our government is doing. While Bush and company was spending $800 billion on a fraudulently induced war, shredding the constitutional protections for the little guy, and giving over government and Wall Street to corporate America, these folks sat silent, indeed cheered him on while he ruined the economy, robbed them of their retirements, proposed forcing their Social Security into the stock market swamp, and diminished us in the world. Now they claim that getting more of them health insurance, expanding Medicare (the program they love) and reducing the embarrassing profits of big Pharma and Insurance, is cause for revolution. Hmmm… lets see… what could the difference be now? Tell Camille to wake up and realize we live in a country populated by many small minded and hateful people, who yes are blinded by their rascism.

“Tom, the shrill Camille asked for evidence – - – ” Thanks, Eric, for your clarity of thought. Thinking adults are well aware of how we were brought to the brink by the small mindedness of those who allowed the Bush boys to rule unfettered. Sadly these narrow minded souls remain as neighbors and fellow citizens in a world dearly in need of evidence that someone like the shrill Camille is too self absorbed to see. Oh, how irony does rule.

If it hasn’t been mentioned yet… Planet Money post about the economics of “acting up” in a school setting.

Meant to say tenure. University of the Arts you’ve been had.

I’m for questioning everything: Obama’s birth country, whether man walked on the moon, wmd’s … Too many Americans, and apparently too many listeners to this show, willingly lap up whatever sugar-coated news is processed for your digestion. Americans are extremely lazy thinkers, I’m for whatever gets them engaged. Yeah! So let’s figure out if he’s an American citizen, the whole controversy will result in more Americans understanding the Constitution and what the requirements are to be president. That will be a big step up from people just voting for whoever makes the best promises.

Camille Paglia- complete idiot and waste of time. She’s talking out her ass, please pass her the Charmin.

Camille Paglia is one of the few decent thinkers left in this discourse. How few of her critics here have even tried to take challenge her actual points. If you disagree, make a persuasive argument. For example, she very clearly laid out the philosophical shallowness of each side throwing down their “anger” cards. We all have plenty of reasons to feel insulted, so why don’t we stop this ridiculous ad hominem stuff and talk about the actual issues. Instead all you say is that she should be silenced. Please argue the facts for a change. If you took the time to know her, you’d learn that she actually supports most of things the liberals in congress claim to.

Shortly after his inauguration Gore Vidal called George Bush “simian”, and a cascade of cruel words about him never stopped. But similar treatment of Obama, and you pull out the big guns: racist! Has it occurred to you that once that card is played you’re all out?

Calling Obama’s critics “racist” is one of the most spurious, and fascinatingly empty, defenses of his policies. Think it through: Obama’s approval rating has dropped substantially. Since it’s not likely that people like Wilson voted for him in the first place, the decline is among his own voters. Are you calling YOURSELVES racists? It is a very totalitarian trait to eat your own.

Can we get at least one apologist on the left to start making arguments on the merits?

We will see in a few years whether he has lied or not. The new reform bill gives drop babies of illegals health insurance. Amnesty is not far behind. Wait to see Obama’s plan for welfare, trillions in new spending.

I have been thinking about this program all day.

This program was about civility (or the lack thereof), so it was brilliant to have Camille as a guest.

If America remains divided — Talk Radio Versus NPR — we are doomed.

We need NPR to try to conduct civilized conversations across this divide and I commend you for trying. It also made the point that with a civilized moderator, the irrational arguments (that aren’t backed by substance) just don’t hold up. That’s what happened to Sarah Palin and that’s what happened to Camille on your show.

But you gave her a chance, and that is important.

Thank you, WBUR.

So we have a show on civility, and out of 160-plus posts here a large proportion are carping about Camille Paglia, rather than advancing the discussion. This is like carrying around offensive signs when exchange of views can be achieved.
Some of us have heard Paglia before, seen her on TV, heard her on NPR, from I think the mid-1990s, talking about feminism, I believe, talking about religion. Never in ways one could constructively engage with, either from at home or in person, that I noted. I have checked publications to see if that is her forte, and decided she belonged to the world of the ivory tower. I left the house today, laughing to myself as I went at Tom’s use of bleeps in uncivil quotes or examples. I totally “screened out” (busy as I was) almost everything except the “music” of the hour, I mean the dynamics and tone, hosted I thought boldly and well.
If currying fervor is becoming the American style, to the point there is legitimate fear we could become our own worst enemies, we need examples of incivility met with humor and resilience. I thought I heard some.
What do we do? Complain and condemn.

Where has this notion of that racial bias in American culture in my region over the past several decades has not improved would be a misconception. There are more than a handful of Black people who prosper and live fulfilling lives. The perceived idea that a productive and contented environment can be achieved through hard work and integrity is a widespread belief. What should also be given some examination is the belief by a significant percent of Americans that it inherently exist in Black people one of the following, a genetic and or intellectual inferiority, emotional or psychological inferiorities, social deficiencies, poor environmental decisions and other hindrances to having the capability to perform, or develop to the level of Caucasian Americans. To site the fact that of participating voters a majority, 66,882,230* Americans, voted for a Black, African-American man to be President and that the vast majority of those people were Caucasian and or of the belief that Black people are not inferior, does not account for the fact that all of those people represent only 22 % the 300 million citizens of the U.S.. This is not to imply that the rest of the population believes the opposite or that people who voted for President Obama’s opponents do either. However, if we choose to ignore the starting place for equality in America then haphazard folly will prevail. America at one time bred, programmed and conditioned non citizens to believe they were inferior; we at one time removed and prohibited literacy among these individuals. Collectively we how somehow convinced the mainstream that this had little to no effect on the future development of our separate and combined cultures. Blacks were the vast majority of these people, and although our representatives have over the years legislated proactively to undo or correct in some way those acts. The has been recently a idea that we now live in a Post-Race America where one race on longer matters in the grand scheme but, As soon as and during the 2008 election it was commonly accepted that some people would not vote for a Black person, period. And just because their belief did not prevail it does not mean that that belief system or mindset changed. It could be argued that it would be viewed as a threat to their well being and even their perceived reality. America hopes that these individuals personal beliefs wouldn’t promote bias in their daily lives that would hinder or negatively impact Black people financially, socially, environmentally etc, however by examining the data of Black Americans compared to other ethnic and cultural groups usually points to major gaps in all areas of life. Why is this so? Are Blacks inferior? Are we unaware of imbedded policies in government and society designed to subjugate Black people? Are there intentional measures to legislate or implement these beliefs? When did white supremacists change their minds? Should they be on terror watch list for domestic terrorism, it is terrifying to think that people may be working against me just because of my race. There are many possibilities but they should definitely be revealed through exchange and debate amongst our citizens.

“The one thing that struck me was her countless claims to be a Democrat when she continually proved herself to be a right-wing nut-case everytime she let loose with that screech of hers.”
**

Ah yes. The “logic” of ‘Democrats good-Republicans bad’ strikes again.

I guess civility depends on whose ox is being gored. When the Minutemen were shouted down at an Ivy League School and not even allowed to speak, when Bush was called an idiot, mocked, and vilified as a person, and not on his policies, then where were these whining sniveling liberals. I am a neither, and I a Libertarian so I call em as I see ‘em. You get what you have been giving liberals.
On the groundswell of opposition… be dismissive all you want but I did not see 60,000 or 100,000 or whatever the number of people get on buses and travel to Washington in support of Obama’s health insurance plan. Just the opposite.

“when Bush was called an idiot, mocked, and vilified as a person, and not on his policies,”

Bush was called an idiot or worse because of his policies, not as a person. After 9/11 his approval rating was in the 90s. It quickly fell when he started pushing for the Iraq war, and his incompetence in handling the post-war matters, and his ineptness during the Katrina debacle, and the incompetence of the people he put in charge of things, and his failure to deliver Bin Laden “dead or alive,” and his “bring it on” remark, and his putting Afghanistan on backburner, and his transforming budget surplus into a deficit, and his complete inability to deal with the economic meltdown, so that even Wall Street was screaming: “where is Obama?” before Obama even took office, and other things that are too numerous to list here. His approval rating in the 20s at the end should have been even lower. So suck it up buddy, your party has produced the worst President in the American history, and the people’s disdain towards him was richly deserved. I don’t see any hypocrysy.

“If you feel that what Camille view on the birthers and what she stated is correct than prove it otherwise it seems you bring nothing to the conversation other than your ego.”

**

Right, right, greg. And whose ego are you bringing to the conversation, not to mention the obvious illogic of your statements?

“If your (sic) not going to explain yourself than (sic) there no need for your responses.

thanks,”

**

Duly noted, greg, and I’ll try better to kowtow to your weird logic and idiotic wishes. You see, I was under the impression that this is an open forum where different and diverse views can be expressed, as long as they agree with the comment policy of WBUR. My mistake, and I apologize that I didn’t realize you were controlling and deciding on the participants to be let into the discussion, as well as the kind of views they should express.

******
If Paglia identifies herself as a Democrat (and I don’t know whether she does or not), that’s it – doubt that you can make that decision for her. I don’t think there’s a set of rules that one needs to follow before one can call oneself a Democrat (or a Republican).

Today, you’re as likely to find pro-choice as well as pro-life Democrats who are active in politics. Obama and many Democrats are not in favor of same-sex marriage. The same Democrats who voted for Obama in California in 2008, also voted for Proposition 8. Based on facts, I don’t see any homogeneity in Democratic party, or a single valid view on issues being termed as the “Democratic Party” view and rest other views as not belonging to the Democratic Party.

And your comment actually validated my earlier statement as well as its logic, so thanks a lot, greg.

Camille Paglia needs to calm down and actually talk reasonably; however, I do recognize that the rest of you handled that wonderful display of self-victimization quite well, mind teaching that to all other media.

What made the liberal democrats mad enough to wet their panties was that Joe Wilson told the truth.

Why did Camille Paglia find it appropriate to yell during most of the show? I found it highly ironic for her to be invited onto a show about civility, and then to dominate the discourse, interrupt, disrespect other opinions and frequently make snide and dismissive side comments. Although, underscoring the point of another guest…I never would have looked up her name had she been polite, thoughtful, and respectful of other guests on the program.

Further, I object to the idea near the end of the show that the virtues of order, civility and respect belong solely to the political Right. The Right is far more wed to civility-corroding libertarian individualism than is the authentic Left.

great piece below

For the last eight years, we’ve observed Karl Rove’s non-reality based universe in which logic was entirely abandoned in lieu of whatever reality the administration invented in order to serve its ridiculous policies and to mask its glaring nincompoopery. Intellectually dishonest at best — destructive and criminal at worst.

This didn’t end on Election Day.

Since their thumpin’ last week, the far-right has pushed the crazy to eleven and snapped the knob clean off — an opening salvo of twisted hackery portending an insane four-to-eight years of attacks on the Obama administration. If the last seven days have been any indication, the far-right is shaping up to make the 1990s seem quaint — even erudite by comparison. That which used to be your basic, off-the-shelf intellectual dishonesty has grown into, as Digby pointed out recently, full-on intellectual violence.

Intellectual violence. While not a new term, it perfectly defines what we’re seeing now: accusations and smears that so severely confound logic they literally attack — violate — reality and the human intellect. It’s like a berzerker dervish of argumentative elbows and fists indiscriminately flailing around, thwacking anything in its orbit, so much so that constructing a counterpoint is literally painful, “Why the hell am I trying to debunk this?! Ow! My head. Aw hell, I need a drink.”

The “Impeach Obama” Facebook groups, for example. No, I’m not making that up. They’re real and there’s a constant variety of disgruntled far-right Republicans joining up every day. And, to our total lack of surprise, they’re not ashamed in the slightest to post comments like this one:

“Damn dems stole the election like they always do. GOD wanted McCain and Palin in the White House. That’s why it’s called THE WHITE HOUSE.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/what-doesnt-kill-the-far_b_143398.html

greg,

I’m willing to bet my last penny that you wouldn’t recognize an ad hominem argument if it hit you in the face. And don’t tell me about civility – just take a look at your first response to me and ask yourself whether it passed the civility test or not.

Yes, I will criticize Democrats, Republicans or anyone who I think deserves criticism based on facts. Those in the driver’s seat have to face criticism – so deal with it.

BTW, here’s the comment that I commented on:

“…when she continually proved herself to be a right-wing nut-case everytime she let loose with that screech of hers.”

Here’s an exercise for you: see if you can figure out the logic in that sentence.

“still pushing the birther issue even know it makes no sense whatsoever and has been shown to be false”

Actually it hasn’t. Not by a country mile. Obama has an army of lawyers preventing the release of his long form birth certificate (and all of his college records and papers). The only people who have seen the short form certificate of live birth (which could be issued long after the child is born) is FactCheck.org which has no credibility in this case because it’s owned by the Annenburg foundation and Obama worked for them. It all points to something being hidden. I doubt that it’s the location of the birth, I suspect it’s something else that might be embarrassing on the certificate. Like maybe Dad really is Dad.

Racism or not, what we are experiencing (and I don’t pretend to know if it was worse in the past or not) is a real lack of ability or willingness for folks to engage in civil, reasoned discourse. As Kathleen pointed out, many people avoid struggling with ideas and arguments and resort to simplistic, “shoot the messenger” type rhetoric.

I’m no Enlightenment era rationalist, but we can make no progress without a commitment to avoiding basic, high-school level logical fallacies in our arguments. Calling someone a “racist” is one of those logical fallacies. But, so is calling someone a “socialist”. We all struggle with racism throughout our daily lives – it’s unavoidable. And socialism is useless, simplistic term that means nothing outside of the context of a real country with real people.

Thus, if you want to advocate for yourself, learn how to make an argument based on well-researched fact and hypothetical reason – whatever side you are on.

If anything, it’s easier on everyone’s ears.

Abby, Obama was vetted by the FBI. He was born in Hawaii.
He is not an Arab or a Muslim, if you believe this I guess you also believe in Santa,the Tooth fairy and trolls.

“This statement of mine is simply pointing out that Paglia was contradicting herself during the entire show. To question the logic of this statement says more about your lack of comprehension than it does any lack of logic on my part.”
**

Pat, so your logic is (as best as I can deduce from your statements – feel free to correct me):

1. If you questions Obama’s birth-certificate, you are not a Democrat, and are a right-wing nut.

2. Your position on this single issue (“birther”) is the sole criteria for deciding whether you’re a Democrat or not, irrespective of your views on other issues.

But, Paglia proved your logic wrong, didn’t she? Or maybe she missed the memo that the Democratic high command sent out to the faithful.

Us vs. them?

For the record, I do think that the “birthers” people are grasping at imaginary straws.

By Ms. Paglia’s argument in support of the birthers in today’s show one can simply replace birthers with segregationist and see how quickly her argument falls apart like the house of cards that it is.

I just listened to the podcast of this show and want to say that I found Paglia to be be quite uncivil, which introduced a discordant note in a discussion which was supposed to be about civility. She interrupted others and talked through and over what others had to say. She was also dismissive and insulting in her characterizations of those who disagreed with her (unlike the two other guests who were class acts imo).

She says that she supported Obama yet she says that the birther’s “concerns” are legitimate. Does she mean that the concerns about Obama’s citizenship have merit or does she mean that it is legitimate for anyone to express their concerns, whatever they may be (except for those who are concerned about racism and sexism)?

One of the weirder shows I have heard in awhile.

New England Patriot –

Your post illustrates many characteristics of the reactionary, white populist ire.

You did NOT listen to the show, but you appreciate the points made by the guest who ostensibly supports the conclusion you’ve already decided to accept, regardless of the facts.

You claim on the one hand that “birthers” have raised questions that deserve to remain “open.” You also claim that Obama has never proved his citizenship.

Then you say that Obama has not received any criticism because he is black.

Sir, you don’t seem to have any information about these topics.

Obama is, in fact, a citizen. He has, in fact, demonstrate this. There are no “legitimate questions” about his citizenship. You are a part of a fringe group of conspiracy nuts. Do you understand that?

The problem is that journalists and media sources are not doing a good enough job denying birthers and other whackos time on newscasts they simply don’t deserve.

First of all, apologies to anyone under 40 for your education; you will have no idea what I am talking about below. Let me speak to the boomers not Prozaced, doped up, or zoned out.

Funny for old boomers who fought the rednecks in the streets over Tricky Dick’s meat grinder in Vietnan to read the posts here.

With a few noun changes, you people could pass almost sentence for sentence for the establishment reactionary supporters of Nixon in 1970. You are dogmatic, narrow minded and hyper supporters of the man in power. How dare someone question a birth certificate? Listen to yourselves. Pitiful.

Once upon a time the progressive mantra was “QUESTON AUTHORITY”. You now sound like the sycophantic paranoids who called anyone against the Vietnam War a communist.. And today? Anyone against the man behind the Afganistan /Iraq/ Pakistan/ Iran war is a racist?

You have disgraced the meaning of progressive. (And so have you National Propaganda Radio.)

By the way, some of you seem to have no idea who Camille Paglia is. At least, look at her wiki before you put in the snide comments about her husband.

Regrettably throughout history, even smart people have been duped into believing crank theories–creationism, social darwinism, parapsychology, eugenics.

In the case of birthers, even if you provide them with strong evidence against their theory, they will insist that the evidence is also part of the conspiracy. And as a result, their conspiracy becomes self serving–no evidence can possibly refute their theory unless it’s the evidence they’re seeking.

Camille Paglia has lost all credibility. Subscribing to birthers is right up there with the Flat Earth Society. It’s lamentable that she has given academic cover to nothing more than a bunch of kooks who are hell-bent on proving their conspiracy despite their lack of evidence and strong evidence to the contrary.

Dear Tom Ashbrook

Ref: Questions of Civility, and More

You can feel the tone in Professor Camille Paglia’s voice. She said that she is a Democrat (most people say this to gain legitimacy when they are actually on the other side), but disagrees with the way Obama is ‘ramming through the health care reform’ – that it smacks of ‘big government’. What is the fundamental assumption behind the notion of ‘a big government’? Are these assumptions flawed? Does it really exist? Let the Professor Paglia define for me ‘big government’. There is no such thing as ‘big government’, no such thing as ‘small government’. Government is the people, and the people are government. The instruments of government such as the laws, regulations and ministrations are of what the people have decided. It happens that some people do not like a ‘government run’ healthcare, that’s some people, but others think the government should be involved – that’s some other people.

The professor said something to the effect that Obama has lost the direction of this healthcare reform – the point is this: a pragmatic and intellectual person like Obama has to stay out of the dust-slinging, for when it settles, as it will eventually do, he will then speak – and this is what he did in his address to the Congress about healthcare reform. When it is all said and done, America still needs healthcare reform. In what form the healthcare should take, is the question that is most pertinent – Obama has proposed a middle-of-the-road solution, which is sensible and cost effective. But the professor keeps referring to ‘government take-over of the healthcare system’. Civility also means the ability to accurately represent the statements and intentions of others as well as recognising the change in direction of these statements and intentions. Obama initially proposed a government run insurance healthcare to more or less compete with the insurance companies, after the dust-slinging, he reflected, and saw some of the merits in the arguments from his opponents, he took this on board, and has since modified his position – evidenced in his address to the Congress. The female professor did not acknowledge this, thus she was not civil at all.

Thanks a lot for your great show – I stumbled across it four years ago, and I have always listen online from England. Your archives used to be based on themes, such as education, politics, Ethnicity, etc., but is now set in term of years. I think you should change it back to themes or a combination of both, so that the listener could pick out a show they want to listen to, particularly the older shows. I liked the conversion you had with John Franklin Hope, now that he has died, can you do a post-mortem on his work and life?

Regards
Edosa Eweka
Grays, Essex. England

Texas Voter –

Obama would NOT be the first president of the United States whose parents were not both citizens.

Obama was born in Hawaii, which meets the sole criteria recognized by the courts.

You’re obfuscating and dancing around on this issue, I think it’s pretty clear, is motivated by BIGOTRY.

When Bush Addressed Congress in 2005 it was a State of the Union Speech, which is tradition, and not only dod he receive boos from that”august” audience, but he was called “fool, fool, fool” (listen closely to the audio): so much for civility.

Now, when President Obama addressed the joint session of Congress nearly two weeks ago, it was not the customary State of the Union occasion, rather it was a sales pitch to gain support for his healthcare plan. Moreover, he did speak deceptively, a fact evidenced by the Senate’s inclusion of a prohibition on insuring illegal aliens. Still more, he spoke a half-truth at best when he promised that cuts would be made if his projected cost, just shy of a trillion dollars, could not be met. This is a lie, because no Congress is obligated to adhere to spending limits imposed by a prior Congress. Still again more, Obama said he’d fund a “new” plan from cost-savings in Medicare, but Medicare is nearly insolvent and any savings gained will be needed to prop it up. In fact, a close analysis and parsing of Obama’s speech shows that much of what he said was untrue. Is that lying? You be the judge, but there’s sufficient grounds for challenging him even in a forum such as the U.S. Congress.

It’s not about lying. They all do it. There is a difference between yelling out you lie to the President than booing, while is not a good thing is not breaking with the rules of the house. That’s the bottom line.

A man is never more truthful than when he acknowledges himself a liar.
– Mark Twain

It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native criminal class except Congress.
– Mark Twain

Well, time to throw C. Paglia under the bus. We all know that’s how liberals have to deal with dissent. Discredit her, call her insane, a conservative shill…something,anything but let her make you think about why you all worship Obama and corrupt politicians.

I think one of your email comments had it right…times of stress actually bring the worst out of a lot of people. This does not mean that the people who are losing their civility are the ones who are stressed out due to circumstances although that is very likely. Given the economic situation in the country in the past year and the fact that Americans see that their country is slowly losing its pre-eminence in the world, are the real causes in my opinion. I am an Indian living in India (and an avid listener of NPR) and in my analysis the lack of civility and competitiveness that you see in third world countries is a direct result of the hardships that the people of these countries face. People in third world countries have to fight for everything (even the rich have to be uncivil to get the services they need) which raises the stress levels and therefore the level of uncivility. This is quite likely the cause in US too today. Internet, Blogging etc are simply making it easier to express that frustration. Given my analysis this behavior is only going to increase in the coming years as other countries get closer to US in stature.

I’ve read some of the comments about Ms. Paglia, and frankly, I stopped taking her seriously when she characterized the shouting matches at town hall meetings as “ordinary citizens … challenging their elected representatives and making a mark on the media.”

The purpose of this broadcast was to discuss civility in our national dialogue. A civil dialogue is a discussion: one party speaks, then allows the other party to respond. The town hall meetings that have garnered the most attention have been those in which the “ordinary citizens” continued to shout and tirade while their “elected representatives” were speaking. I don’t begrudge my fellow citizens a level of emotion in the questions they ask, but after you’ve finished shouting at your congressperson, please sit down and let them respond. That, to me, creates a successful town hall meeting. Yet Ms. Paglia suggests that the true “success” of these meetings is the verbal abuse some of these congresspeople have suffered from their constituents. Deserved or not, there is no civility in such a “dialogue.”