I’m looking forward to this panel discussion — a very interesting group of Sisters. I think it is so important to know that there is a great variety of Catholic Sisters and Nuns — we are as unique as the founding inspirations that we received and continue to receive from God. Some of us will do it in familiar ways like living in a convent and working in Church ministries and praying a horarium. But others will do it in other ways that are equally valid such as ministering to the most abandoned even if it takes us away from “normal” convent living or ministering in a medical facility or on in a homeless shelter. Some of us will wear habits and others will not. This is not a movement away from the Church but a gift to the Church and world.

I have always believed that the nuns that wear the traditional habit have more people gravitate towards them and are admired and revered more than those that have chosen to wear street clothes and live on their own. I was in retail for many years and would be waiting on someone who until the time of purchase,when they would pull out their tax exempt card, would have never thought them to be a religious. Thank you Pope Benedict!!

Stressing the complete Gospel, including strong doctrine, and the counsels of poverty, chastity and obedience for monks and nuns – what else do you expect the Vatican to do? What else has it done for the last 2000 years, or what else should it do, given its role in the world mandated by Christ? Vatican II – its documents, not its supposed ‘spirit,’ did nothing to change this.

Those in religious life are a sign of contradiction to the world – not to condemn the world, but to show the world that life is more than about just the here and now, but ultimately looks forward to the life hereafter. This applies even to those nuns who don’t live in a cloister. Just take a look at the young Dominicans teaching in schools who are brimming with real joy and (shock!) wear habits!!

The dissenters will dwindle and die off, sad remnants of the 1960′s.

I believe the sisters should be investigating the bishops and the Vatican.

The Catholic Church seems to be under the impression that the only choice for the nuns is blind obediance or nothing. They forget that America is a country with a huge melange of faith. I already know that several denominations are ready to open their doors to these women, either as nuns or even as priests and ministers. Trying to clamp down could cause them more problems then they know. Already the decline in numbers of people calling themselves Catholic has been dramatic over the last 20 years.

I am wondering if the Vatican is trying to distract the world with this issue in order to cover up another issue involving the heirarchy, the use of parish funds, the power play in parishes.

The Catholic Sisters in the U.S. were treated as “cheap labor” for church institutions for two centuries. Their vocations were never to populate the church’s institutions. It is a sociological phenomenon (large immigrant Catholic families) that so many entered between 1920-1965. The same thing is happening today in India and Africa. Religious life was never meant to be a huge “labor force.” Vatican II recognized religious life as a “prophetic charism” in the church–never meant to be incorporated into the “hierarchical flow chart.” Is the Catholic Church going to subsidize the retirement of the sisters who long served the church and now are practically bankrupt? Laurie Goodstein has this right on target, as does Sr. Sandra Schneiders. This “investigation” could easily lead (even more than the sexual abuse by priests crisis) to a schism in the U.S. Catholic church. Don’t mess with the nuns!

Young women do not seem to be attracted to the orders which have forsaken orthodox doctrine and the wearing of habits. As Mr. Helmrich said above, this is not about keeping the nuns from serving the world, nor is it a tyrranical power play or greedy clerics trying to gain property. Give me a break.

If the point of the Church is to CONFORM to the world (and not just living IN it), what is the point of the Church? The world can be the world much better than can the Church.

Correction: I meant Sr. Mary above, not Sr. Sandra…sorry.

For starters, I thought it was totally unfair to allow Mother Quentin Sheridan such as short period of time on the program. As for Sister Sandra: Not all the “post-Christian” nuns have left the convent. I know nuns who openly advocate for abortion and gay marriage. Others refuse to participate in the Eucharist because they are pained by the all-male priesthood. So, why do they stay in their religious orders and live off its resources? That will probably be one of the first questions the much-needed Vatican visitation will look into

It was ironic that the speaker objected to the Church interfering in the way the nuns decided to organize themselves and claimed that it was analogous to a marriage as that is an institution hardly free from the Church’s meddling. At least there is some basis for the Church’s overseeing the nuns as they chose to affiliate themselves with the Church. The Church has been working to deny equal marriage rights to not just Catholics, but to everyone. I wish the Church would focus on its own internal squabbles and leave the rest of us alone. I don’t care how they choose to resolve it. If the nuns aren’t satisfied they are free to leave the Church.

About 20 years ago, a couple of physicists claimed to have produced nuclear fusion in a tabletop experiment (cold fusion). After a flurry of media attention, the claims were rejected by the scientific community as false and inconsistent with established physical laws.

Religions are belief systems built upon foundational assumptions accepted by its adherents to be revealed truths. Those assumptions cannot be tested for validity in the same way that scientific laws can be tested against the physical universe, but they define the system. Any subsequent assertions of truth must, therefore, be validated against those foundational principles, just as scientific claims must be validated against the physical universe or laws are validated against the Constitution.

When a person’s beliefs are no longer consistent with the foundational truths of their religion, they must make a choice between the two. If they prefer their own insights, that’s fine, but they may no longer reasonably claim to be a member of a group they have rejected as mistaken in its beliefs.

Any system of beliefs must either maintain an internal logical consistency or it surrender any claim to truth and devolve into a meaningless chaos of conflicting opinions. If a church wishes to remain coherent, it must either internally assert its foundational truths or reject them in favor of dissenting claims.

What makes the Church’s position appear intolerant and misogynistic is the American habit of viewing religion as a matter of private, personal opinion. The idea of some institution imposing a belief on a person is repugnant to us. But that is not what is happening here. Membership in the Catholic Church is strictly voluntary (though it was not always so!) dissenters are free to believe whatever they wish and subscribe to whatever faith they choose. What they are not free to do is dictate that the rest of the Church must accede to their particular beliefs.

If it is intolerant of the Catholic Church to assert the truths it has maintained for two millennia and then how much MORE oppressive and intolerant would it be for it to impose heterodox views embraced recently by a small number of American Catholics upon 1,000,000,000 Catholics worldwide?

I looked forward to this show because I really wanted to hear a dialogue among viewpoints. Instead, people of essentially the same view spoke for 50 minutes. Sister Mary Quentin Sheridan was barely allowed to say anything, nor to have any dialogue.

There ARE two perspectives on this visitation, even within the religious communities. Some of us wonder why our fellow sisters who do nothing but criticize the institutional Church and talk about being “beyond” its teachings STAY and want to be part of it. With a small change here and there, over 30 years they have chipped away at the foundation of religious life until, really, religious life is indistinguishable from a bunch of nice ladies living together.

If you take up this topic again, I hope that you do so in a way that TRULY gives voice to both perspectives.

Without delving too deeply into the pedophilia scandal, Cardinal Law was not rewarded by the Vatican, but was essentially “kicked upstairs” much as troublesome members of the House of Commons have often been removed to the House of Lords where they can do no more harm.

When these good and holy women, who have stuck with the Roman church for decades, finally get tired of the abuse & exploitation, there are other Christian denominations who will welcome them with open arms and ordain those who seek ordination. And that’s really what this is about, isn’t it? “Uppity” women who dare, in love & truth-telling, to challenge the male domination of their denomination. We are approaching the 500th anniversary of the beginning of the Protestant Reformation. Note the words: “reformation” begins with those who make “protest.” If Rome will not heed these good women, well, there are many Protestant women who will embrace them in sisterhood. I can only say to these sisters, “Come, let your sisters in other parts of the Christian church welcome & love you.”

Time for the Fathers Van Winkle to wake up.

a) Please stop throwing around phrases like “are not living up to their (community’s) constitutions.” How do you know that? Have you read all the communities’ constitutions?

b) The Missionaries of Charity do not wear “habits”, merely the sari which is worn by most women in India.

Hello 2009,

This is 1492 where I live in Portugal and the Vatican has spoken about the wasteful trip Columbus is undertaking; the Vatican Cardinal has said there are more useful things here to do with the money than to spend so much money s on the frivilous idea of sailing ships est to go west wil ptove the Earth is round…. Last week we recieved word that the world is still flat, nothing moves above the clouds or in the Heavens; life does not exist at the center surface land of the Earth;woman are inferior to men and should serve God thru the knowledge given to men by God, who, in turn, will serve mankind on Earth.

What is happening in your century?

The Vatican’s decision to walk this slippery slope, proves once again that they have decided to be the judge, jury and executor of the Godly efforts and services the nuns provide. Who cares what they wear? Who cares whether they live in a community where they have to posture themselves just to get access to the one vehicle that is available for six of them.

I’m still laughing at the fact that priest take only TWO vows, Chastity and Obedience, and most fail miserably at both. Nuns must take THREE vows, Poverty, Chastity and Obedience. Catholic schools have all but disappeared due to declining enrollments. Is this because the nuns have been working tirelessly out in the community, without wearing a habit, ministering to the sick, poor, and outcast of society, or is it because they no longer trust that the priest won’t objectify their children and once caught, be relocated to do it again.

Nuns work with no financial gain, and little or no recognition. They spend their time, effort, and love of God serving the Beatitudes, while the priest are on sojourns to who knows where, (since they feel they are unaccountable to anyone, man or woman), it is the nun, dressed in her bland secular clothing, administering the host to the sick and dying. I have never met a nun, and my sister has been one for almost 40 years, that is not accutely aware of her vOcation. And to nuns, it is just that, a vOcation, a calling from God. Somehow priest bought the wrong vow from Vanna. They bought an “A” when they should have bought an “O”. The call from God to do his service is not a vAcation, get it right Vatican. Maybe we should spend the next century with priest and nuns switching rolls. I’d love to see how much more would get accomplished, WITHOUT breaking Canon Law, or their vows.

“Faith seeking understanding’ the definition of Theology – seems to be what our women religious in the USA are about today in 2009.
They are living ‘New Forms’ of religious life and I agree with their choice of forms as they relate to the mandates of Vatician II.

I am an Associate of the IHM {Sister Servants of the Immaculate Heart of Mary” Monroe, MI}

When Christ was on the cross, who was with him? It was the women. Who took his body down from the cross and prepared it for burial? It was the women. To whom, according to the Gospels, did Christ first appear after his resurrection. It was a woman. No wonder denominations everywhere want to keep women down, after all, they were and are the most faithful.

These are questions of how we understand church…yes, sisters/nuns are “at the service of the Church as are priests” (to quote KvK)
In whatever their ministry, sisters are doing service of the church–feeding the hungry, visiting the prisoners, clothing the naked.
Sisters are the face of the church among the poor, the marginalized, the immigrant, the stranger.
Its not about the geographic location of ‘church’ as building or ‘church’ as the Vatican, but an understanding of ‘church’ as much more expansive–it is all of humanity and all of creation.

Correction of my previously submitted comment.
The second sentence should read:

One can’t understand the “worldview” of many
women religious WITHOUT looking at various
activist coalitions and organizations which
began in the 1970s.

Mr. Ashbrook: In your broadcast, you consistently used the phrase “rein in” when discribing the outcome the Vatican might possibly desire as a result of the apostolic visitation. This is a media phrase that demeans the life of adult women doing serious work in this country. Religious women not errant children who need to be collared. For some reason journalists of all stripes tend to inadvertently revert to very disparaging language around Catholic Sisters. It is reminiscent of the language of the 70s when women who started working outside of the home were referred to as the “little missus” It is a kind of religious sexist language. You don’t talk about supreme court nominees that way. You don’t even talk about politicians that way. Can you please review how you are characterizing this whole thing and make sure that your own language does not buy into the very stereotypes that women and Catholic Sisters have tried to break out of for the last 800 years? Thanks I appreciate it.

These visitations provide a wonderful opportunity for the Vatican to better understand American Women religious. At the same time, it is also a great opportunity for Women religious to understand the Vatican’s concerns.
I frankly don’t see the big deal. Let the Vatican conduct its visitations! This isn’t a witch hunt and I don’t think the Vatican is trying to persecute and keep women religious down. When they come to your convents, I say Sisters, show them the wonderful fruits of your ministries!

Too many people are losing their sense of Charity here.. for Heaven’s sake, just let the Church do its thing! We all need check ups now and then. Wait until the results before we start guessing, generalizing, and criticizing anyone’s intentions.

Love to all.

I just heard the interview that was taped. It was entirely unjust that you did not allow the President of the CMSWR, Mother Mary Quentin more time to speak. She would have spoken for alot more religious than Sandra S or the lawyer from Philly. They stated that they were representing themselves. This was unjust and a false attempt to appear fair. It is unfortunate becayse perhaps Mother Mary Quentin would have pointed out the following.
1. Religious communities receive the benefits of being non-profit and the ability to hold property as a legal entity from their affiliation with the Church. They also recieve their legitimacy as ‘religious” FROM the Church. They has a duty to make sure that this designation is being lived, that is that the constitution of a religious institute is in conformity with the specified ideals of religious life.
2. It is somewhat disingenious that both of the progressive sisters say that they “had no idea of the Church’s concern”. In 1983, the Holy Father was very converned and published Essential Elements. The LCWR has dialogued and dialogued till the cows come home about their infinite litany of complaints and hurts againt the Church. The Church has remained firm
3. As a religious I welcome this visitation. I think it is a grace for all religious either traditional or progressive and I pray that it will be recieved as such
Sister Mary, Washington D.C.

>In your broadcast, you consistently used the
>phrase “rein in”…media phrase that demeans the life
>of adult women doing serious work in this country.
>Religious women not errant children who need to be
>collared.
>Anne Lytthgoe

Anne, I hear what you’re saying, but you’re approaching this from a Western/American point of view, as if men and women are in all ways equal. The Catholic view is anything but: women and men are NOT equal. And if nuns are stepping outside the dictates of dogma, they need to be reined in.

What do you EXPECT from a rigid patriarchichal hierarchy? As was stated elsewhere, Catholicism is not a democracy.

Do I agree with this? Of course not, I find the church ludicrious, which is why I’m now an atheist (raised Catholic). But you’re starting from a faulty premise; rememeber that they’re coming from the position that an imaginary sky being told them the Ultimate Truth. Any deviation from that is, from their point of view, endangering “souls”.

One really is at a loss to understand the genesis of not one but two Vatican investigations of active religious communities of women in the United States.

The institutional Roman Catholic Church is going to the proverbial hell in a handbasket as a result of the documented and widespread abuse of children in countries around the world, most recently in Ireland, and yet Vatican authorities have seen fit to initiate the nitpicking of active congregations of women religious without so much as the courtesy of first communicating with those who are the elected leadership of the majority of those communities.

Other then the speciousness of innuendo have there been any specific charges leveled against any religious congregation in the United States?

Not to my knowledge.

Against all odds, women religious have worked and flourished in this country for centuries since the Ursuline Sisters first arrived in New Orleans, Louisiana in 1727.

A trip to the Cincinnati History Museum to view the current show, “Women & Spirit, Catholic Sisters in America,” is a real eye-opener especially for those unfamiliar with the major congregations of women in the church and visiting that exhibit should be required of every bishop in the United States.

The Holy See, the Vatican, the Congregation of the Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, formerly known as the Holy Office for the Inquisition, Cardinals Franc Rodé and William Levada would do well to look instead at themselves and their brother bishops around the world.

The hierarchy has previously tried to blame the presence in the priesthood of those with a homosexual orientation for the tragedy of childhood sexual abuse. That hasn’t worked so they are now attempting to deflect attention from their own moral turpitude by attacking the sisters.

That will be as ineffective as actually trying to blame them for the rampant sexual abuse of minors that has gone on in this country.

I agree with what Tom Fox has been quoted as saying in the New York Times recently, “Next time, let’s have our women religious study the quality of life of our male clerics.”

Better yet, let’s be more specific: refine that objective and find some funding so that the Leadership Council of Women Religious could initiate a study of the recent actions of American bishops, say over the last fifty years, that enabled such widespread sexual abuse of children, young men, women and vulnerable adults as well as the quality of life of the hierarchy.

Now, wouldn’t that be a worthwhile reversal of roles?

Catherine Mary Henry
Havertown, Pennsylvania
In the Archdiocese of Philadelphia

Hi, i wish the Catholic Church would allow its employees (after all, that’s what nuns and priests are) freedom. Freedom to say and do what is right for them, not the Church. Eugenia Renskoff