First comment is an example of the unfortunate anti-intellectual strain long extant in American culture. Seen when Giuliani (a law school graduate) makes a fool of himself decrying Obama a “Havhard” Ivy League elitist at the RNC and voters proud of the fact that they have fantasies of downing beers with common-Joe, I-hate-books Bush.

No. We need thinkers, social critics, intellectuals. They don’t “do nothing.” You can thank idea-people for having created the modern world you enjoy and for being the one’s that will get us out of this mess greedy bastards put us in when they went out with one narrow goal of lining their pockets with quick money.

The second comment is another guy that just not “get it”. I lived in Asia for most of my adult life and seldom did I see so many “intellectual strain” types. What I did see were people that wanted to create wealth, jobs etc…they loved the idea of owning their own business, hiring people, creating wealth. Looking at the path that the USA has been on the last 40 years we need less “intellectual types” and more Henry Fords, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs..etc..etc..etc..

P.S. One thing is for sure, Jefferson was not part of the ‘ do nothing ‘ crowd.

I totally agree with your guest about how we have created a world where the life has become a corporation and we have been reduced to being consumers. Here is my pet peeve on the subject. By breaking up our families in the name of independence and freedom, we create many consumers who when they live under one household will require much less in terms of gadgets but will receive much in terms of support and happiness. My own household where two young daughters being away from home means between three household we have three refrigerators, three microwaves, three internet lines, and on the other hand, me and my husband wind up employing people for small jobs such as lawn mowing and yard work that our daughters would have been able to help if they were also staying at home.

The whole system seems to be geared towards creating more consumers and taking away the basic support network of people around you.

david -

Asians are not intellectual?

Ford, Gates, Jobs are not idea people? Did not rely on idea people?

So, what we need is for all the professors and writers in America to do is quit their job and obtain a loan from the bank and start up a corner mom-and-pop shop … and all will be solved.

This world you separate into “intellectual” and “wealth-generating” is more interconnected than you think.

Douglas thanks for telling the truth
we need more people that understand
what you see.

We’re called consumers instead of citizens. Free trade trumped California’s environmental laws when trying to restrict import of pollution sources. The dollar has ruled over the welfare of the community, the corporate over the individual.

Oh, so the reason I incorporated my start up was to stifle competition. That because I was given this “charter” I’m protected?

Now he’s going off on “currency”

This is nothing but latte-fueled angst being passed off innovative thinking.

Great show ..
ITS TIME TO TAKE OUR LIVES AND OUR MINDS BACK FROM THE CORPORATIONS !

Before i came to live in America I believed that Americans were very INDEPENDENT MINDED people .. this concept attracted me to the US…

Now I believe that we need to FIGHT FOR OUR MINDS AND OUR COMMUNITIES …

thanks .

I really don’t think our retirement funds should be invested for maximum profit. The managers of these funds should invest for a future, a promising future for all. Bottom line should have better measures.

The fact that we are no longer able to colonize other countries was just mentioned. What seems to be happening is that corporations are now able to colonize our brains.When will we push back?

This guy really knows what he’s talking about. He understands the value of a strong business, but fairly criticizes the motivations of a capitalist corporation. The strive for short-term profits hinders the people far more than it helps us.

Efficient housing, vehicles, education, health care — all have to pay the piper, the profit-making institutions.

I think Mr. Rushkoff may be underestimating the benefits of the status quo. I like not having to grow my own food. I like being able to specialize in a field that depends on far-off markets. If I didn’t, I’d have to make something that people near me need, and that is a far more limited set of life options.

The whole economy has been running on greedy Americans buying oversize things they don’t really need, and can’t afford, with credit promoted by our goverment as a sustainable lifestyle. Sustainable it is not!
For generations, Americans have been herded by their leaders, marketers, and creditors to buy now and pay later. It has always amazed me how people just automatically assume life should have a monthly payment attached to it, trading their freedom for indentured servitude, so as to have it now. As a person who doesn’t believe in being in debt to anyone at anytime, the thought that someone could, or would, buy a house, car, vacation, toys, etc. with no equity on their behalf seems obscene. It’s the hard route to pay cash, not only do you have to wait for your biscuit, but you must deal with people in debt up to their eyeballs looking down on you, judging you by what you don’t own. I waited for years, watching home prices being bid out of my reach with artificial prices bolstered by creditors “free money” to nothing down customers, before I was able to buy a modest home. That’s ok, I take great comfort knowing I’m my own master. I believe the credit industry refers to cash payers of my kind as deadbeats. Who are the deadbeats now?, it sure isn’t the person with cash in hand.

The way people live life these days buried in insurmountable debt, appearing to have nice things in life, but instead, two paychecks away from loosing it all, has been a feast for the market players, They need these people wearing the yoke of debt to feed their free market, non productive lifestyle. Meanwhile, the average productive person lives a life full of fear and stress always peering around the corner, waiting for the other shoe to drop. The productive American worker base has been shrinking while wealthy and privileged have been growing in numbers so they have had to take their exploitation to where our jobs have been going – overseas. This is the way of unrestricted free market capitalists, exploit people and resources, take the money and run, until it all goes bad, and then they want to tap the very people whose backs they are standing on in the first place!.

There needs to be a complete reorganization of the way Americans think about work, consumption, energy, environment, and debt. In order for this to materialize people have to fully experience the extreme downside of our current economic model that’s based on the gross exploitation of people and the earths natural resources. I just hope that when it does happen, and the economic carnage is over, people will stop and wonder if their lifestyle of consumption, artificial props, and self deception has been the correct path. From the ashes perhaps a new system of relative wealth parity and respect will emerge. I emphasize respect because when was the last time you felt your contribution at work was truly appreciated?, benefited society?, helped your planet?. Unrestrained capitalism doesn’t care. Period. I can’t support the bailout even though a lot of good people will suffer. The system must change.

It is not the taxpayers responsibility to step in at the eleventh hour and throw themselves in front of this horrid train wreck. The people who foisted these policies upon us need to fully own them and be held accountable, not aided by a congressional patch that allows them to fade away in the background while other people are being put out on the street. We need to let the effects of unregulated capitalism run its course; let those who worship the market without producing any real tangible product live by their free market creed and reap its consequences.

Arg!

Blather!

I agree with the author’s observations; I can’t say that they sound novel.

If there was one significant positive action suggested during the hour I missed it.

We’re not slaves to the past. Could it have happened another way? Of course, but it didn’t.

What form of government?

David — Time to pick up Jack Bogle’s book (he was the founder and CEO of Vanguard, remember?) A “good capitalist” and a wise man, he writes about having “Enough.”

All of us need to stop seeing the world in terms of either/or. Capitalism on a leash is a plus to our lives. The leash, though, is really important, not only around capitalism’s neck but around consumers’ necks. We’ve been falling all too willingly into the consumerist (and “financial services”) trap.

Think of all the bad stuff we could put an end to if we stopped supporting corporations so eagerly with our credit cards, or simply did so much more selectively. Think of the pleasure of deflating lobbyists and their corrupt legislative targets by buying much less or none of what their employers want to sell us.

Mr. Rushkoff, You say what I’ve been TRYING to say since 1967!!! AND, you say it backing up your points with historical research that I SO appreciate hearing about!!! From all that I know, not from economic history, but from ART history, what you presented about the Middle Ages and Renaissance makes PERFECT sense — in fact, it explains things that didn’t quite make sense with previous explanations!

I contend that the Walmart economy has only made the inner cities of America even POORER. When local businesses couldn’t compete with subsidized (at least in terms of tax deals) big businesses, they went out of business, leaving their communities with no local jobs for parents, for teenagers, etc. Sadly, I contend, the illegal drug economy swooped in to replace the former rich economy and life-services of inner city businesses. I wonder if you agree?

I desperately miss the days of my childhood when neighbors walked down the street to visit, just walking in the unlocked door and announcing their presence, literally with “yoo hoo”! But, many of our “liveable cities”, smaller in scale or with “neighborhood” housing, are NOT as liveable now because of many of the factors you speak about. Most particularly, people have grown so insulated into themselves that large numbers of people are unable to see how their noise, made extremely loud thru modern technology, infiltrates OTHER people’s lives in ways not experienced decades ago. The aggression of the noise (from music & motors & exhaust pipes) is the OPPOSITE of sharing, in part because it is NOT about sharing, it is about the narcissism of the individual — a stance learned thru the underlayment of the economic system we live under AS YOU SO BRILLIANTLY DISCUSS!!!

You held your own against a caller’s deeper belief in the benevolence of Capitalism (how often is it considered “benevolent” just because it prevailed? I personally prefer the “mixed” economies of the Scandinavian countries, if we limit choices to today’s world). Studying African-American and Native-American history, I can attest that the Capitalism and the Colonialism that propelled this history were NOT benevolent. I can follow historically how our family’s Capitalist owners, with grants from King Charles II of England, prospered, while millions of MY ancestors’ ancestors, African and indigenous American, died in these twin processes. I wonder, do Americans from different races hear your arguments differently?? THANKS SO VERY MUCH! I can’t wait to buy the book FROM MY LOCAL, INDEPENDENT BOOKSELLER!!!

If people wanted to live the way Rushkoff yearns for they would. But, in general, they don’t. It’s a result of liberty.

For all you here who want to live more communally nothing is stopping you, just do it. My guess is that freedom isn’t enough for you, you really want to force the rest of us into your collectivist utopian phantasy.

And we didn’t need this derivative book in the first place, this topic was covered in Bowling Alone a few years ago. Really a waste of radio time.

great show but alittle hard to wish to follow him and his idea when he said him and his wife hired a latate specialish to help them.

but the rest was good, maybe that story he can leave out next time he talks since it kinds of show him to be a hypocrite.

One more point from Chris, June 2, 12:35 p.m., Re: Bellcurve’s comment:

AND, I do NOT believe that Mr. Rushkoff if asking us to live “communally”. To say so is putting his argument into an either/or vice-grip!

I am remembering a heated disillusionment with The System during the Vietnam era, which came up with the “communal” idea, and indeed many communes, sort of kibbutzim, if that is the word, sort of self-regulated and self-sustaining groups. They were not communist, not especially religious, sometimes purportedly given over to marijuana growing and smoking rather much, and rebellious to the extent of not paying taxes if at all possible. Into this semi-vacuum came a need for authority, and figures like the Dalai Lama shone. Namaste, peace. Live off the land. The Whole Earth Catalog told you how.
In this instance the brokenness of the system is more at issue. You don’t stand outside; you try to hold up the tent. To that end, I did just contribute to my public radio station, by the way, though I am frustrated at the lack of even-handedness we get when nonprofits like NPR broker so much of what we need — and corporations “broker” so much that they want us to THINK we need.
Chris, as one with multiple chemical sensitivities and heavy metal toxicity, with allergies to foods at all sweet or sour or nonfresh, as one not disabled but not “able” in the normal sense — my immune system is weird — I probably have some of your perspective. The system is designed to try to “remainder” people who don’t exactly fit what the advertisers (corporate America) wants — wants us to want. People are supposed to go in predictable herds, I think, per the statisticians.
A few generations has brought huge change: flush toilets, phones… Now, in a nation needing to “move” together, we find ourselves fragmented in some ways, as this show points out. Even people thoroughly over-programmed, going from meeting to meeting, can apparently feel isolated. “Don’t you?” People can be pretty manipulative in making you think you have to be with them to be “good,” and that leaving you alone is some sort of punishment. Solitude (in the right social matrix) is powerful, I say.

Thanks for your thoughts, Ellen D.! I think you hit the nail on the head….that feeling of being “remaindered”!!! It is VERY real! A depressing condition to point out, but THANK YOU for the OBSERVATION because CLEAR perceptiveness of a shared situation DOES help! I used to enjoy my Solitude, but an excess of it can become Isolation and includes being isolated from being able to be the one who HELPS! (My volunteer work does not remedy this because it comes cloaked in privacy issues!)

By the way, you MAY be allergic to some of the INACTIVE ingredients in any medicines you might take. I am very worried about the governmental AND corporate emphasis on generics in medications; there are several generics I cannot take because the INactive ingredients either cause me allergies and/or interact with other medications. Sometimes there is sorbitol and/or aspartame involved. Because of one of the active ingredients in one of my medicines, I cannot go near balsamic vinegar (only balsamic!). You mentioned sweet & sour, perhaps these suggestions will help!!! Best wishes to you!

Ellen D., Have you checked with a physical therapist (especially one really knowledgeable about the spine! – they are not all as equally well-versed on this important part of the body, but some have extra degrees in manual work on the spine!) for your neck? Your frozen shoulder MAY have caused your muscles to spasm on whichever side of your body was affected, and then the spasms may have pulled the vertebra(e) in that area ever-so-slightly out of alignment??? This can cause really subtle pain and exhaustion that is NOT detected as coming from that area of the body!!! And, perhaps you know about this, I don’t, but a friend said that there is a form of therapy for heavy metals called “chelation”. Perhaps this is what you referred to when you spoke of expensive treatments not covered by insurance (hope not!). I wonder if you’ve seen a PT for the frozen shoulder, too. They know a lot more about it now than even 15 years ago! Best!

Great and smart comments here.

I definitely understand how people might think I’m calling for the end to all corporate activity and the erection of an alternative. When actually all I’m asking us to consider is the development of a few alternatives to outsourcing our commerce, exchange, and value creation entirely to corporations.

Yes, we are “free” to do this – but it’s currently more expensive to purchase goods from local merchants, to grow food beyond Big Agra, and to do a lot of what we might want to accomplish otherwise. And I’d argue this is not because the larger corporations have exploited efficiencies of industrialization, but laws and financial institutions that are tilted towards their interests.

I’m not against people forming their own corporations – not at all. Or developing commerce. I’m all for it. Especially when they are creating value and transacting it with others.

Problem is, most larger corporations that have gone public are no longer in the game of creating value – they are servicing debt structures, and required to grow at rates that are utterly disconnected from the demand for their products. Sustainability is not an option – only growth is. And this mandate for growth is part of what leads them down paths that extract value at all costs.

I’m asking people to consider their dependency on these institutions, and to look at when their individual and collective interests are actually being served, and when they are not.

Indeed, we live in a free country, relatively speaking. And this means we have the ability to consider and enact some alternatives. If we feel our lives would be more enriched as a result.

But this may actually work against the DowJones Industrial Average and the GNP – the chief metrics we currently use as measures of economic health.

Thanks for posting Rush. Will the book be in audio form?

I “ditto” the apologies for the diversion, and “ditto” the thanks to Mr. Rushkoff for his comment!

Thank you Mr.Rushkoff for responding on the forum its very rare that a guest does this, your a good egg!

I agree with this statement, and this lines up with how I think we now have adversarial conditions in this country between the corporate and the populous.

Problem is, most larger corporations that have gone public are no longer in the game of creating value – they are servicing debt structures, and required to grow at rates that are utterly disconnected from the demand for their products. Sustainability is not an option – only growth is. And this mandate for growth is part of what leads them down paths that extract value at all costs.

Yes, we are “free” to do this – but it’s currently more expensive to purchase goods from local merchants, to grow food beyond Big Agra, and to do a lot of what we might want to accomplish otherwise. And I’d argue this is not because the larger corporations have exploited efficiencies of industrialization, but laws and financial institutions that are tilted towards their interests.

I also agree with the above statement as well. A very good example is how we raise livestock in this country. We are the only country as far as I know who use the feed lot model. If you buy lamb from New Zealand it spent most if it’s life eating grass. Same with most cattle in most countries.

Here we feed them corn which causes a lot of problems for a whole host of social and economic issues. From the agricultural stand point cows don’t eat corn, it’s bad for their digestive system and as a result our beef producers feed these animals massive amounts of antibiotics. This is an unsustainable model for raising cattle and in the end will most likely collapse.

Personally I think we need to get back to local farms if that is at all possible. I also think the idea of a lot of community run gardens is also a good idea. The more we grow our own food the better. If you have lawn rip it up and plant flowers and vegetables.

“The thing we call the free market is a landscape created for corporations….”

Douglas Rushkoff is stating the very same case, in detail, that I have been sermonizing about for the past twenty years.

I have witnessed the evaporation of community and family, in America, over some four plus decades of observation as a journalist concentrating on the Arts and their function as catalysts for diverse groups coming together in participation, collaboratively.

“Lactation consultants”. This one really got to me.
The most natural thing in the world must be bought, with money, in order to “flow”.

We can do so much better. WE. Not just you, alone, or the almighty “I” operating in competitive self interest.

Thanks again,Tom. Great guest, excellent interview!

I just listened to Rushkoff’s interview, and he made a startlingly inaccurate historical claim.

Rushkoff claims that companies like the EIC and VOC grew out of a bargain between aristocrats and merchants – that the merchants were granted monopolies backed up by armed force, and that people could no longer use non-corporation goods.

There are a number of historical inaccuracies here.
1. The joint stock company was created to reduce the element of *huge* risk involved in overseas trade in the 1600s, not for strictly monopolistic purposes.
2. They were created in a period when monarchical power was already being aggrandized and entrenched, not when aristocrats were grasping to retain power.
3. Families served as production units way into the 19th century (that is, they produced quite a bit of the goods they consumed). They would most certainly have been able to make and use or barter the ropes they needed, for instance.
4. Monarchs, even around the 16th centuries, simply would not have had the military or naval power to protect overseas trade. The EIC basically ran itself and provided its own arms until 1857. The English and Dutch, the pre-eminent overseas trading and imperial powers, relied on privateers to do much of their naval enforcement.

Putney,

I shop at a small mom and pop Halal grocery store in my own neighborhood. I ride my bicycle to get to and from there.
Not a Muslim, myself, but I find the quality of the food to be excellent. Black and green Olives at 3.99 a pound? Perfectly ripe Avocados,.50 cents each? Chicken, beef (if you’re into meat) perfectly cut? At half the price of a Stop and Shop.
The service of the staff cannot be compared to that of a mega store. We know each other, by eye to eye contact, and actually enjoy the whole experience, together.
Check out your local Halal grocery. Promise, you will get an excellent deal if you are looking for good food and good neighbors at the same time.

Mr. Rushkoff mentioned values but the book has to be read to see to what degree he refers.
The big reason for failures of any system of today is the lack of personal values. A dictatorship can be O.K. with a compassionate dictator. Our system emphasizes education for purpose of economic success but never refers to the most important job of all: PARENTHOOD
Sister Mary Rose McGready of Covenant House states: “I passionately believe the breakdown of the family unit is the single deepest ethical and moral challenge of our generation.”
By attending to this problem we should be successful in correcting a lot of societal ills regardless of the nature of the structure.

What an incredibly interesting guest.
But, Tom, please stop interjecting mmhmmm’s with your guests. It was so distracting today that I couldn’t stop counting them — I reached 31 before realizing the obsessive compulsive effect it was having on me.

A) Has anyone come across the recent ploy whereby one of the HUGE health insurance companies has given over the administration of their clients’ prescriptions to a company that requires that rx purchases, to be the cheapest, must be bought at ONE particular HUGE corporate pharmacy, thus CUTTING OUT LOCAL, INDEPENDENTLY-OWNED PHARMACIES. How is this NOT cornering the market, or monopolistic, or anti-trust??? That would be as if my electric company (health insurance companies are somewhat like utilities, or perhaps they should be viewed as such) required I purchase a dishwasher ONLY from corporation X, or the price would sky-rocket!

B) Also, in my New England state, our governor is desperately hoping to lure BIG businesses by offering them HUGE tax breaks, as well as by offering their top salary earners income tax rates that mimic those of lower-income earners. He has been trying to do this for years, with no takers. His idea is STUCK, STUCK, STUCK!!! INSTEAD, I believe, he should ask our state legislature to enable towns to: 1) give real estate tax breaks to LOCALLY-owned SMALL businesses (which could be defined as such); 2) eliminate the inventory tax for locally-owned small businesses. With his plan, businesses come in, set up, get the benefits, then take the whole operation someplace even cheaper, having killed off the local competition: dead in the dust of ill-targeted tax breaks! Also, stimulating local, small businesses thru tax incentives, rather than doing the same for HUGE, non-local corporations, encourages business development throughout the entire geography of the state. Otherwise, only the workers who can live nearby or conveniently commute to the introduced corporation benefit, even tho every tax-payer in the state has to help with the subsidy.

Also, often better-educated people from outside the state are the ones who get hired by these new corps.. They come INTO the state, filling the vacancies, while the state residents who are the very ones footing the bill — for the tax breaks, the road construction, the eminent domain issues — don’t get hired, because, when a state is hurting, often the educational system is not at all sufficient. With the out-of-state workers come their kids, thus jolting demands upon the local school system. Guess who has to help pay for a new high school? The local, POSSIBLY less educated people whose local businesses went belly up because it wasn’t THEIR businesses or highest earners who got the tax breaks!!! The local former-business owners are now working as night-time supervisors at Burger King. Their family cannot afford the car or car insurance for their teenager to DRIVE to a job at the big corporation (IF the child could get hired), and since there is no longer a local downtown business district with lots of small businesses for kids to work at after school and in summers by just WALKING there, the kids realize they can “do their part” by dealing some “light” drugs on the side…mom and dad will never know! Also, that way the local kid can have as much status as the kids whose parents are the high-income earners at the new corporation, who, thanks to the state-given income tax break, have tons of extra money to buy THEIR kids a new LEXUS. It’s such a safe car!

I MEAN it. THIS is what’s happening!!!

I caught most of this on the radio tonight. I was listening with fascination to Douglass Rushkoff tell me interesting and surprising things about the economy and that black hole of Western European history that we skim over in school and popular knowledge. But I didn’t get as much as I’d hoped to hear because Tom Ashbrook interrupted him mid utterance, bullied him to support incorrectly interpreted beliefs (incorrect partly because he didn’t listen to a complete sentence before starting his judgement). On the whole, it was one of the more appalling, bullying interviews I’ve heard outside Fox media.

Clue for TomL Having a guest doesn’t mean you have to agree with and stand behind everything your guest says. Giving them two, maybe even three whole sentences to flesh out a really novel concept that few, if any, people I know of have any real knowledge of isn’t dead air or a waste of time or complicit agreement. Let the guy get a word in edgewise.

Of course, this just means I need to go get the book, so at least one mission is accomplished. But could it have been any more painful to listen to? Yikes. Next time, let your guest make a point before you try to interpret and refute and refuse it. I might not be as tempted to turn you off in such a case.

Do we need fewer professors and writers? Yes..when I was in college the average time a professor taught was less than 20 hours a week…the grad students did all the teaching..writers? too many producing books that nobody reads…always broke group of people looking for a handout…

CrankyOtter, I disagree and the idea that someone has to hire a “lactation consultant” is absurd. Breast feeding while it is not easy is a good idea. Instead of supporting such an absurd thing, why not look at the real issues that are being presented. The lack of good community health care. The fear of talking to your neighbors.

However if we had a decent health care system then this would not be a problem. My ex and I had our child in Scotland and we had a nurse/midwife who helped with this. She came to the apartment twice a week for the first two weeks and then once a week for a few more weeks so that she could make sure that we, as a young couple were doing alright. This person was an older woman in her late 50′s who had a wealth of knowledge from years of doing this one thing. We don’t have these people here. To my knowledge. This is good community health care. It’s good for everyone and most of all the baby.

The other issue is good maternity leave for both parents, not at the same time mind you. It seems in this country having a child is seen as an excuse to fire people. That families are a problem. Like I said the corporate entities are at war with us.

I’ve never read that 10th through 13th centuries were terribly prosperous – the way I’ve heard it is that wages were going down until the plague made labor scarce.

And it’s just plain non-sensible to say that the lords and kings of this era had no way to raise revenue before currency. Ever hear of a “land lord”? These guys owned the land and took a portion of its output, by “sword and shield” if necessary. It was only after the plague reduced population by a third that farm labor gained mobility and could hunt for the best deal.

Here’s the most recent, but by no means the first, place I’ve read that description of the era:

http://www.amazon.com/British-Food-Extraordinary-Traditions-Perspectives/dp/0231131100

About 1980, new mothers here would go to Lamaze classes, which taught natural childbirth, but created networks of women who then would pool themselves, so childcare groups could be held at a different home each day. My impression was those women supported each other on breastfeeding too, sharing what had come down to them.
In fact, to the extent “belonging” in a community takes place, mothering/parenting is so obvious a starting point that others are at a disadvantage. With these Lamaze mothers, they got a jump start by collaborating many months in advance.
If Douglas Rushkoff was not in a community with that, or an extended family that could help, I’m glad consultants can be had.
As to spelling, some are dyslexic, or plain challenged at it. We do not complain when someone on crutches goes crooked and slow so long as they get there. On this forum there is at least one whose spelling is a feat to behold but what he says is absolutely worth paying attention to. He isn’t stopped by — well, if you had to look up every word, not really having any idea of the first letter even, would you bother? I’ll take what we can get.

Another note on the lactation consultant issue and what support is available after birth here. I had a baby 4.5 years ago in a major hospital in the northeast. We had about 48 hours in the hospital after he was born. (And this was an improvement over what the insurance companies want. 15 years ago when my niece was born, she and her mom got less than 24 hours in hospital before being sent home.) While the nurses did help me get started, our nursing issues did not become apparent until he was a little over a week old. We had no one coming to our house to check on us or the give advice. The advice I did get was from our Ped. at a 1 week check and he advised a consultant, who watched me nurse and saw that my baby was suckling with an ineffective tongue position. She also helped me find a nursing mother’s group where I got more help and support.

A few generations ago when nursing was routine, no doubt one would have gotten such advice from older relatives or neighbors. In the US, however, we are still recovering from a lengthy period when mothers were actively discouraged from nursing, and that lead to a dearth of practical knowledge in the general populace. None of my several neighbors nor my older female relatives nursed their babies. So we have to pay someone to help, and look outside our existing circle of friends for ongoing support. Which is the point??

Sorry typo; Most likely this was a savvy midwife who used this kind of marketing gimmick to get upper class people to buy here services.

This is a very large and interesting topic in an area where there is a *lot* to think about. Having quickly scouted the comments down to here, I’ve a bad feeling too many people don’t see such ideas as *starting points for more reading and thinking*. For my part, it’s too big an idea for me to say much about it here, but at a quick glance, I think it goes far to outline how today’s quite ugly world comes to be so. *Thanks* Douglas Rushkoff. — Martha Adams

Yeah the Americans on this forum are sure overreacting.
I’m not Scottish, I was living in Scotland at the time of my daughters birth. Case in point Ellen, your response is a good example of blind support for a guy who hurled insults without reading my statement. We had a child, I went through this, what part if this do you all not understand?

The bottom line is the health care system if you want to call it that, is in free fall and it’s not working at all.

This is the problem, the mere fact that one needs to hire a lactation consultant shows me that something is dreadfully wrong with how people have children and the care that new parents are given.

“lactation consultant”

i agree with Putney Swope fully.

It is only logical to have some other form to feed your baby, people make it sound as if it is the only way.

just cause your a speacialist does not mean your services is not say silly, useless, or coud be done for free by someone else.

I see and saw working in child care when i was in collage parents(not all) wish to pawn all if not most of their responsibilities on others.

seen this time and time again with k to 5.

Ellen your not getting it. Your last comments I think is meant to be obnoxious, they also show you have no idea what I was talking about. Of course you can allude to other comments from other threads. I don’t really care quite frankly.

A “Lactation consultant” is or should be a midwife/nurse. You should learn this in the hospital, or you should have the option of one coming to your home as we did. My point was that the idea of hiring a “Lactation consultant” is symptom of how messed up health care is in this country. I’m never said people should figure this out by themselves. I had the good fortune to have access to good national health care system that had great child birth services.

I hope I cleared this up.

*****I do however agree with his thesis that our capitalist and economic system is failing. I personally think that the corporate world is at war with the American population, it’s all about the bottom line and how productive people are. In some of the more advanced European countries such a France and Germany people have paid vacations of up to a month a year. Maternity leave and so on. Our country on the other hand looks at this as a waste. Which I think is a huge mistake. People need vacations to refuel. They need leisure time a lives outside of work. Our model is brutal and spit people out like so many cow pats.*****

Human are not being treated as human anymore, we are being treated as numbers and machines. Modern industrial machines are designed for NON-STOP production, so we as human are just another machines being used to operate machines.

Having only 2 to 4 weeks of vacation out of a year is brutal to our mind and body. Everything here in America is emphasized in “speed”. Just look at how we walk and talk now, so much faster than before the industrialization. No wonder today’s society is full of mental disorder, depression, anxiety, and self worth problems. We are being measured by how productive we are, why constantly produce and consume? Can we slow down. I found one of a helpful way to cleanse my mind is to try not to verbally talk so much and acting reactive, instead I write down my thoughts and listen more. Talking too much, especially some wasteful social talks is a distraction of having a clear and wise mind. I figured if I can’t afford to leave my job and pack my bag to physically go away for a while, then I am going to try to do that mentally. I started to pull myself away from the murky environment around me, observe, listen and not being too reactive, I started to see myself and the things around me with a clearer mind.

I am not suggesting everything would be just fine and perfect, they may never be, but it is a process of having a more peaceful then a murky mind. We all have to change ourselves before we try changing others.

Just some thought, I apologize if I go off the tangent too much.

Oh, and…

It’s very hard to criticize when you don’t have all the answers. The existing system is a functional system (with a current downturn everyone wants to believe will just work itself out). You just know there is something better but everyone thinks you want to destroy the current functional system. If you can’t give a complete, detailed, believable plan on the spot they just dismiss your criticism all together. But it’s the highest calling, to try to imagine, to promote, to move human society in a direction so that 100 years from now it’s a little better off than if everyone just put their heads down and plowed along with the status quo. But it’s a heck of a swim upstream, isn’t it? Most people won’t hear that you want to start a process, to consider how things could be better, to have some public discourse on how that could be brought about, to try and experiment and fail and learn and work out a way to make things better. Even if in many ways they are good, why stop there? But most people just hear that you want to break what is functional. So maybe it would be good to emphasize that aspect, that you’re just trying to start a process, a dialog. That you don’t have all the answers and are just trying to point out how things could be better, and see if some ways can be found to move toward that, and that you are making a start by giving your suggestions and your lessons from your study of history.

Oh, thank God (or whomever you choose to believe or not believe in) that there are people out there listening to this program and discussing it with such passion. It gives me hope for the American society that people are still out there thinking instead of just buying!

i am into my leave my man alone kit/dual casting with Dr.Gboco. gbocotemple@yahoo.com
and today he emailed me out of the blue. this is on the 5th day of the
1st spell and he is already contacting me. wow, i was starting to think
i was beating a dead horse since i have heard from him in 1 month.
thank you so much, i can not wait to start the love me again dual
casting. the incense and oil smell very good. thank you for helping me.
i am going to recommend your service to my friends. thank you again and
thank you papa Dr.Gboco.